The Math Angst thread

[Ashley]

And to think I nearly had a heart attack when I saw this thread. I paid my dues last year with Algebra II, and feel more than comfy taking my semester or so of college algebra to sign off my mathematical skills. While some say it's not smart to skip math senior year, I don't think I could take pre-cal right now.

If pythagoras wasn't dead already I'd kill him...that's all I have to say on the subject. Oh, and God bless you gifted people for helping us not-gifted ones.

[Technomancer]

Pythagoras? Pshaw! You should meet Laplace.

[Ashley]

Sir Issac Newton is on my historical hit-list too. Ok, enough math angst--back to formulas and such...

[cbwing0]

I dislike math, to put it mildly. Yes, yes, I know we use it in our daily lives and it's very important to other people, blah blah blah; nevertheless, I don't like it. Thankfully UVA allows us to take math and/or science to fulfill our requirements, so you know I'm going all science.

I can't really give you any help with math, but I can offer my math angst.

[Omega Amen]

Pythagoras? Pshaw! You should meet Laplace.

*looks at the math-angst gang posts, and starts laughing*

You know, Technomancer, while we are at it, maybe we should introduce Ashley and the rest of the math-angst gang to Fourier. I want to see how they will react when Fourier explains that any periodic signal can be described as an infinite sum of periodic sinusoids.

Applied combinatorics could probably make the math-angst gang resent counting.

*sighs*

All right, math-angst gang, either be ready to learn in this thread or just make your own thread called... I don't know, "The Math-Angst Gang Thread," and vent over there. Let me sum it up to you this way. Without math, no computers would be here, no CAA would be here.

Praise God for math and all the innovators in this field throughout history.... *glares at Ashley*

Besides, Bobtheduck seemed to want some help, and I think we should provide a nice, appropriate environment for that. If I am going to help, I do not want to scan through a bunch of angst posts in a help thread.

Alright? Thanks.

[Ashley]

He's got a point folks. A very sharp one, being I was one of the "math-angst gang" but a point to be taken nonetheless. Let's take our frustration somewhere else...and to OA, that was a very brave move. Way to go out on a limb and say something, especially when the staff is involved, and do it in a polite, courteous way. Excellent job.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled tutoring

[Kisa]

Math . . . *shudders* . . . goods thing I only needed as far as College Algebra and am now done! *rejoices forever* I hated math with a PASSION!!!!

[TheMelodyMaker]

Engineer, eh? I'm programming my own game engine. Does that make me a game engineer?

Seriously, I greatly enjoyed math all through school and did very well with it; until Grade 12, when it suddenly got rather tough (but I still did all right).

[Rachel]

when i first saw this i thought it was a math appreciation thread and i nearly died, but i think that i'll be a frequent user of this since i can barely pass algebra 2.

[Michael]

I love math. The rules for it are unbreakable. That's probably why I'm so bad at geometry.

[Ashley]

Ok, I split this thread and moved the good-solid-purposeful posts to the new section. This is now open grounds for the math angst gang *grins and puts on trench coat* Yeah, see...

[Saint Kevin]

I see the usefulness in math, and I like Cephas, have to deal with multivariate calculus. That being said, I don't like math enough to use it if I can help it. Calculators rule.

[Icarus]

Math angst gang, huh? I'm an MP (mathematical pinkerton) and I'm here to bust y'all up. *draws dual calculators*

lim as n approaches infinty of (1+(1/n))^n = e =2.7182818286

*sheathes calcs.*

[Saint Kevin]

I still hardly understand the basic concepts involved in calculus, I just develop coping strategies, like memorizing formulas I don't understand. Why is infinity such a hard concept to grasp? My brain hurts just thinking about it now.

[andyroo]

Why is infinity such a hard concept to grasp?

Because we don't exist in it. We haven't really experienced it, so we really can't trully understand it. I hope the logic in that comes out right.

As for math, it's nice to know, but not my favourite subject. Although, it will be needed with some of the job fields I wan't [am considering] to get into. I'm pretty good at it now, but not too long ago I would probably be failing math most of the time.

[Ammaranth]

Hey kid, watch it with those calculators. You might accidentally square yourself or somethin...

I guess I really have two problems with math. And not with math itself, but with the people involved. The first stems from the fact that as a kid, I was sick a lot, and I missed several important lessons in math, which had a domino effect on my later studies. I tried very hard to make those portions up, but it was many years before the damage was repaired. Then in high school, I had an algebra teacher who was really into this new teaching philosophy at the time, which involved the students learning for themselves. In case you're wondering, that translated into her sitting at her desk and more or less refusing to help us during class. No, I'm not kidding.
Algebra and Calc were never fun for me, in part because I am more of a right brained person. I really liked geometry, and even surprised my teacher, who was sure that I was just goofing off, when he found out I was actually busily deriving a proof he hadn't taught us. Of course, someone ELSE had already written that particular proof before, but I was having fun, and he was the kind of guy who was happy when his students were actually interested in the subject. Nevertheless, it was not until college that I actually got the missing pieces in my math background ironed out.
As to my other dislike...shakes head sadly. It just seems like so many people who are in math and science hold some sort of disdain for people who are not talented in those areas, or who are not impressed with formulas, or research quotes, or books, or name dropping, or any of that stuff which is SOO important to those fields, but really doesn't mean a whole lot to the rest of us. There is no place for arrogance in God's kingdom. If we boast, we must boast of the Lord, for there is nothing else to boast of. He is the giver of all our gifts. If He gives to one a mind for numbers and formulas and calcuations, and to another a voice to sing, how shall the one exalt himself, or herself, over against the other? There is no place for it, for both gifts are of the Lord.
On a lighter note, I think you guys had better be careful mouthing off like that to our gang leader. So I'll give you an opportunity to apologize for your disrespect

Math angst gang, huh? I'm an MP (mathematical pinkerton) and I'm here to bust y'all up. *draws dual calculators*

lim as n approaches infinty of (1+(1/n))^n = e =2.7182818286

*sheathes calcs.*

[Kireihana]

Argh. I hate math. I used to be pretty good at it, but it's gotten either progressively harder, or the part of my brain reserved for math has stopped developing. And I fear I'm low on the totem pole compared to most of you - I'm only in Algebra 1. How will I make it through high school?

[Mave]

hah! *joins the math angst gang*

I was always rotten in anything that has to do with numbers. Hate accounting, physics, statistics, any form of engineering and calculus/mathematics....

But my field of study involves a lot of statistics (sensory science and marketing research) ....Sigh, looks like I'll have to master it anyway.

[Saint Kevin]

There is no place for arrogance in God's kingdom. If we boast, we must boast of the Lord, for there is nothing else to boast of. He is the giver of all our gifts. If He gives to one a mind for numbers and formulas and calcuations, and to another a voice to sing, how shall the one exalt himself, or herself, over against the other? There is no place for it, for both gifts are of the Lord.

Right on Ammaranth. The last thing I want to see is the people on this forum despising (perhaps too strong a word but the only one that comes to mind) each other for their gifts (or lack thereof) in math or any other area. Thanks for the exhortation. Let's strive to build one another up in love. In other words, get involved in the tutorials forum if you either need help or can offer it.

[Mithrandir]

lim as n approaches infinty of (1+(1/n))^n = e =2.7182818286

THAT'S NOT NATURAL!!!


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I crack me up...


Having been through multivariate ( twice >< ) I feel your pain. Although, now I work with real numbers ( IRL, not anti-integers ).

[Icarus]

THAT'S NOT NATURAL!!!

Rofl.

Regarding what Ammaranth said,

[Saint Kevin]

You guys and your math jokes. Speaking of which, does anyone know any good ones? All of the ones I've heard are horrible.

[Ashley]

Speaking of which, does anyone know any good ones? All of the ones I've heard are horrible.

I've heard Trigonometry called a weapon of mass destruction...and I've seen a cute poster with Moses and the stone tablets on it stating "thou shalt not divide by zero!"---does that count?

[Technomancer]

I couldn't finish my calculus homework because I could only bring my pen asymptotically close to the paper, but never actually reach it.

[Icarus]

Good one, Tech.

Name here: sine
Requires two signatures: cosine
Male lifegaurd: tangent
Blind: secant
Unable to get comfortable: cosecant

and my favorite:
Noah was here: Arcsine

[Rachel]

ooh...i get it now. i don't get why we have to take math. it serves no real purpose i think. seriously, why bother. i think that people who like math have something seriously wrong with them *ahemjonnyahem*. i don't like math because it has all these rules and stuff that you have to go by. and you get points taken off your test if you don't do the problem the exact way the teacher wants you to. why does it matter how you did the problem as long as you got the right answer? lighten up people, come on.

[Icarus]

it serves no real purpose i think.

While you're busy not caring, I'll just garnish your wages, short you in change, and generally take advantage of you.

i don't like math because it has all these rules and stuff that you have to go by. and you get points taken off your test if you don't do the problem the exact way the teacher wants you to. why does it matter how you did the problem as long as you got the right answer? lighten up people, come on.

Because you could have taken a lucky guess. Maybe you got the right answer, but used an entirely incorrect means to get there. Your teachers want to know that you know how to work the problem. On the last test in calculus, we had to take the limit, even though we knew another way that didn't take as long and was ever so much easier. We weren't being tested on the other way, we were being tested on finding the limit.

Which brings us to the rules and stuff that you have to go by. It works that way, but probably not another way. And just because a departure from the rules works this time, it might not the next.

[Technomancer]

Absolutely math matters. In general life, it's helpful to be able not just to manage a budget but understand useful financial concepts (like interest, debt, etc). You'll need at least these in just about any business you go into, and probably much more.

Of course, in many careers math is critical, (e.g. engineering, the sciences, architecture, etc), and not teaching it properly effectively limits your future options. Beyond this, math also involves teaching a way of thinking which, like any form of knowledge, is enriching in itself.

[Ammaranth]

You boys look a little lost . . . Maybe you've been looking at too many little squiggles, an' forgot how to read ENGLISH. See, this is the math ANGST thread, which means you two are a long way from home . . .

Seriously, I actually agree with you, though I'd be willing to guess that what convoy was complaining about was probably some of the more complex stuff like Trig or Calc. I can hardly imagine anyone seriously disputing the need to teach basic math skills, up to basic algebra, anymore than I can imagine someone saying it is not important to know how to read or write. I think the problem is that the education world has really gotten weird lately. On the one hand, there has been a big trend towards trying to get everyone to go to college, which means that lots of high school kids are going through higher level math courses which in many cases probably are largely irrelavent to them. At the same time, many colleges have been dumbing down their curriculum, reducing a degree to an expensive career training certificate.

Now, let me introduce you to my good friend Guido, who will politely escort you boys back to your part of town . . .

[Omega Amen]

You boys look a little lost . . . Maybe you've been looking at too many little squiggles, an' forgot how to read ENGLISH. See, this is the math ANGST thread, which means you two are a long way from home . . .

*chuckles*
Actually, we can read english just fine. We felt the need as fellow CAA members to ease the angst that apparently has overwhelmed so many of you, including our great leader. We try to ease the angst by speaking the truth on the applicability of math.

Seriously, I actually agree with you, though I'd be willing to guess that what convoy was complaining about was probably some of the more complex stuff like Trig or Calc.

<snip>

On the one hand, there has been a big trend towards trying to get everyone to go to college, which means that lots of high school kids are going through higher level math courses which in many cases probably are largely irrelavent to them.

Trig and Calc are practically fundamental in the development of technology today. From your consumer electronics, your air conditioning system, the brakes in your car, bridges and buildings,... a lot of "relevant" and "practical" things today were designed using trig and calc. Higher level math courses are guilty in (if anything) not teaching the students the applicability of what they are learning.

Still, math teaches you how to think in logical steps, in abstract thoughts and expressions, and self-discipline and patience. It also holds you to "rules and stuff" (as convoybutterfly put it), which forces people to be creative under restrictions and standards (think engineering). There are many, many jobs where if you do not do things "a certain way" and get the right "answer," you might lose your job. (These jobs are not all mathematically intensive.) I think these are good skills and lessons to learn.

[quote="Ammaranth"]Now, let me introduce you to my good friend Guido, who will politely escort you boys back to your part of town . . . ]
*Guido stops when he sees me.*
*Guido realizes that I originally coined the term "math angst gang" and suggested the idea of a math angst thread.*
*Guido nods in respect and mutters that the math angst gang will always be thankful for my hand in their creation, even though I may be from the other side.*
*Guido invites me to have some pasta.*
*The pasta was good.*

Well, the math angst gang may be angsty, but they know respect and manners. Thanks for the hospitality. The math angst gang is welcome to seek help in the math tutorial section. I will return at a later time.

*grins and walks away quietly.*