Denial is a bad place

[nanikore]

A few months ago I submitted an article to CAA what I've written for another (now defunct) anime community. It was rejected, and personally I didn't think much of it.

However, I saw a blog entry today:

http://omo.serenana.info/2006/07/12/waves-of-anime-porn-make-way-to-foreign-shores/

... and I'm going to bring up the reason that I submitted my previously-rejected article (again- it wasn't a big deal, and I've since then forgotten about it).

The reason was that I sensed denial among anime fans.

I've seen plenty of anime through the years, and this isn't late 70s / early 80s anymore, with stuff like Space Battleship Yamamoto and Gotchaman. Most of anime nowadays ARE sexually charged, with sometimes not-so-hidden messages.

Sure, we could keep watching. But at least stop denying. I don't think everyone's diet comprises entirely of Miyazaki films.

Look up the definiton of the word "pornography" as you study the afforementioned blog entry. It's food for thought.

Edit: By the way, the blog owner is a Christian. Here are entries tagged with "Christian Living":

http://omo.serenana.info/archives/christian-living/

[Mithrandir]

Well, this isn't exactly new. I don't really see what people are afraid of. Sure *some* anime is sexually charged. No one is denying that. But to say that "most" is would be, I think, a bit much. That's like saying, "Most movies are sexually charged." Well, what movies are you watching?

This kind of topic comes up over and over on this forum. Our official stance is that anime is a genre (or medium, if you like), and like any genre or medium has a large breadth of material. I think it's all the more reason why Christians should be helping to separate the 'positive' from the 'negative' rather than just lambasting the whole genre.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will say, "Just don't watch any" and then have this smug expression when someone else brings up a negative example of something. That's not helpful, but I think it's morraly reprehensible as well.

Given our no-debates policy, however, CAA is not really the best place to get into a debate over this.

[RedMage]

Yes, all these poor parents, unaware of the true, wicked, perverted nature of that seemingly harmless Japanimation program about the little hamsters they let their five year old watch.

Most of all entertainment media today is sexually charged. It's only because our Western culture defines animation as something aimed at younger viewers anyone finds the more unsavory aspects of anime (or American cartoons) shocking. If the same thing happened in live action, most people wouldn't bat an eye. Of course, they still wouldn't let their kids watch it.

The problem is that people don't understand that animation is a far, far more expansive medium in Japan than it is here. In America we have the vast bulk of anaimation aimed at children and a select few offerings targeted at teens or adults, so ignorant people assume any animated programming is suitable for their children and fail to parent as is their duty. In Japan, animation as a medium encompasses everything live action does, from shows for kindergardeners to pornography. When people become aware of the darker end of the spectrum, they're shocked into overreaction and overgeneralization. Objecting to these non-factual, irrational emotional responses is not denial.

I'm not aware of any "denial" among anime fans. People on this forum are well aware of the un-Godly nature of many titles. Non-Christian anime fans are generally aware of it but simply have no reason to care. It is up to every Christian to decide whether their choice of entertainment is pleasing to God - that decision is ultimately between them and God, and the fact that one person's views may be "stricter" or "looser" does not make either of them necessarily wrong, because each person is convicted differently and caused to stumble by different things.

I am not especially bothered by the idea of people "jerking off" to apparently unoffensive anime. If it turned out a serial killer's favorite song was a hymn or worship chorus because he liked the melody, would we denounce that song as somehow evil or tainted? The capacity of human beings for sin is limitless, and we cannot allow the way we live our lives to be defined by the way other, lost people give that capacity free rein.

[nanikore]

"Most" is definitely not an overqualification. All one needs to do is look the list in his or her own collection.

I never suggested that anyone stop watching. I suggested something entirely different.

[nanikore]

The problem is that people don't understand that animation is a far, far more expansive medium in Japan than it is here.

I agree, but from a different perspective. Many people seem to carry a deified impression of anime with statements such as "it's much more true to life", "it talks about real issues", "it doesn't ignore death like American cartoons". While those statements are more or less true it is not due to some special license that anime creators have "applied themselves" in trying to acheive in the face of "kiddified stuff", for the lack of a better phrase. It is due to, as you have indicated, the expansiveness of the medium.

The issue isn't with what is offensive or inoffensive but which messages are delivered in certain works and which are not. I am not telling people to "do something" or "stop doing something".

[Mithrandir]

"Most" is definitely not an overqualification. All one needs to do is look the list in his or her own collection.

I never suggested that anyone stop watching. I suggested something entirely different.

Hmm... I'd say that goes back to "ones' own collection." Again, what movies or anime are you watching? I would not say that most of the anime in MY collection are even suggestive, let alone overtly sexually charged.

If you aren't suggesting we stop watching anime, or do anything different, what exactly are you saying? Just to be aware of it? I guess I don't see the membership of this site as unaware. If anything, it's their awareness that lead them here. Many of our members join saying things like, "I'm glad I found a place I can discuss anime without haveing to deal with all the crap elsewhere."

Our reviews area existes explicitly for the purpose of helping people find titles that are appropriate for them.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying...

[Debitt]

I am curious - which titles have you watched that have brought you to the conclusion that most anime is "sexually charged"? And what have you seen in the Christian anime community that has told you that we are in denial about the sexual undertones of some series? If you ask me, most of the members of this board are VERY aware of the sexual undertones found in some series - I'm actually surprised and glad to see how careful many people here are regarding content.

Now to address your statement that most anime is sexually charged - as Red Mage said, a lot of people on this side of the Pacific are used to cartoons being primarily for children, thus anime as a whole is shocking to them as it's designed to reach a wider audience. I think that because of this, parents will simply assume the same attitude towards anime that they would towards any other cartoon. It is not anime's fault that these parents are uneducated, and I think it should be stressed that a parent should be aware of what their child is watching.

Does that mean the Japanese are out to start a new generation of porn addicts? When considering the entire medium as a whole, I would say no, because anime isn't entirely meant for children to begin with! And simply because it is not meant to be viewed by children doesn't by any means make it pornographic. I wouldn't let a young child see a movie like Spirited Away, but that does not mean it should be shunned entirely.

Also, what makes a series "sexually charged" to begin with? Obvious criteria would be women clad in an obviously seductive manner, numerous and repeated "awkward" scenes, blatant displays of sexual intercourse - and I'm pretty sure most, if not all the series I watch contain none of these things. And I've seen my share of anime. So what other elements are you using to come to this conclusion? Does one bath scene, or one dirty joke make an anime sexually charged?

[nanikore]

Hmm... I'd say that goes back to "ones' own collection." Again, what movies or anime are you watching? I would not say that most of the anime in MY collection are even suggestive, let alone overtly sexually charged.

If you aren't suggesting we stop watching anime, or do anything different, what exactly are you saying? Just to be aware of it? I guess I don't see the membership of this site as unaware. If anything, it's their awareness that lead them here. Many of our members join saying things like, "I'm glad I found a place I can discuss anime without haveing to deal with all the crap elsewhere."

Our reviews area existes explicitly for the purpose of helping people find titles that are appropriate for them.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying...

I think the "crap" that was mentioned had to do with trite items like flamewars about which series or character is better than which. Yes, I've had my fill of those also. Unless you're talking about the AnimeSuki forums, which is pretty much bordering on lost cause outside of getting information.

If a listing of the grey domain that is my hard disk fansub download area is absolutely pivotal in this conversation, here it is:

Binbou Shimai Monogatari
Coyote Ragtime Show
Happy Seven
Honey & Clover II
Muteki Kanban Musume
NANA
Night Head Genesis
Welcome to the NHK

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Who's denying? I'm not, infact I don't think many of us are. We know what we're watching. Or atleast I do. My anime collection is relatively large, and not all of them are clean (vulgarly, violently, or sexually) but I do have my limits. And I live by them. Should I raise my standards? I suppose. That's something I might as well admit. But I don't see anyone in denial, let alone myself. I'm not saying "Oldboy is such an awesome korean movie! It's got a bad scene but that's okay! Just ignore it." No, I'm saying "Oldboy is such an awesome movie, but it has a sexual scene, and I caution you if you ever decide to watch it".

[Angel37]

Song of Solomon is sexually charged. Should we ban the Bible too?

[RedMage]

I don't see how this thread serves any useful purpose, however well-intentioned it may theoretically have been...

[Mithrandir]

I was hoping it could, but people seem to be a bit to sarcastic in dealing with each other here. I think this topic might serve the community better in PM.


*locked*