A anti-C.S. Lewis website...by christians

[mitsuki lover]

This reminded me of all those anti-anime websites done by the same sort of
"Christian".You know the ones where Sailor Moon is supposed to be leading little girls into lesbianism and all that sort of junk.
I don't even know why we even have to bother discussing this site here as the less said about it the better.

[bigsleepj]

What I thought was funny is when he made a big deal about the word "a--" being used instead of the word "donkey" in one of Lewis's books. Perhaps he should flip to the pages in the Bible where Jesus uses the same word in the same context.

Oh, it gets sillier. Back when I first read the article, the website's name was Balaam's A--, a reference to a Biblical character whose donkey spoke to him. So you can see why he changed the name.

[Radical Dreamer]

"Go boil your silly bottoms, you silly low-minded pig-dogs! Your mother was a goat, and your father smelt of Elderberries!"

I think that certainly gave the thread a lighter tone. XD But yeah, I've already shared my opinion on these types of people, so...I'll just slip out now. XD

[uc pseudonym]

I had partially expected a site of people who truly dislike Lewis for complex theological reasons. Those people exist, but most of them are mature enough to accept that Lewis is merely another person trying to follow God. Upon seeing this website (which I am sadly certain is serious, having seen its like all too often) I am of several minds.

Part of me wants to laugh at the absurdity of a great deal of it. The site is noteworthy for this alone.

But part of me wants to weep for the image of Christianity this site will convey to others, for the state of my religion in this day and age, and ultimately for the creators of the site. It is times like these that I want to join in with the early church and say "Lord come soon."

[Shinja]

its a very intesting web page, i wouldnt dwell on it, certinly it has gotten way more attention than i would have thought here, i mean it is just a web site on the internet and we all know how many peculuar devious and strange sites are out there. i persoally do not care for the doctrine or cs lewis, (please dont ask me why becuase i didnt write this start a debate) but the fate of his soul is the same as ours it is in Gods hands, and only God knows what each of us believe. so in the end it really doesnt matter, read the word and test it aginst any doctrine you may encounter.

[Zarn Ishtare]

UC, I am of one mind with you.


Indeed, Come quickly Lord Jesus.

[termyt]

The defense of Lewis in this thread has been more than adequate and eloquent, so I will leave that as it is. On the other hand, the defense of the site’s author has been lacking, so let me speak on that issue.

Simply dismissing the site’s creator and backers as crackpots or fools is a mistake. It’s basically committing the same error the site’s creator makes. The site does not appear to have been written by a fool or a prankster. Admittedly, I’m drawing that conclusion from skimming the main page and the page on Lewis’s theology and the page on alcohol. It appears that the site has been written by a sincere Christian. With that in mind, we, as Christians, should approach the site differently. We should not simply dismiss our brethren out of hand and we definitely should not engage in name calling.

The site brings up some very good points about the life of Lewis. In my skimmings, I didn’t see anything I know to be false. The main issue I would have with the author is not their use of context, but rather their assertion that they know the Mind of God well enough to assert that anyone is in hell or heaven. There are those on this site who are of the same ideological ilk. They are not evil, stupid, foolish, or heretics.

The writer of the site has a very narrow view of God. Not an uncommon trait. The ultra-conservative side of Christianity tends to have an “I’m right, therefore you are wrongâ€

[uc pseudonym]

Simply dismissing the site’s creator and backers as crackpots or fools is a mistake.

This is true, and I apologize if I gave this impression in my post (not that I feel yours was intended to address mine). I accept the writers as brothers or sisters in Christ, though I am not elated by this. As you said, I do not feel comfortable drawing stark lines regarding salvation or membership in faith.

However, I also stand by my fairly negative view of the site as a whole. Though only occasionally false, the site consistently misuses quotes or misapplies logic. As a whole (more than just the Lewis section), the tone is more mocking than arguing. It also takes some views that I honestly believe are heresies and a great many more that I feel are highly unwise. I feel that as a Christian I have an obligation to denounce these things, though hopefully in the spirit of love.

My take would be to try to convince them to broaden their view of God and His children and open their hearts and minds to the Spirit.

I fear I am exceedingly cynical regarding this prospect.

[Zarn Ishtare]

And I fear that I sound like a toady when I rush to agree with UC.


At any rate, I don't feel that we should be much bothered by this. It is sad, no matter how it is twisted, but people are people, and in the broken world we live in, people are often foolish, unkind, narrow-minded, and by and large, unpleasant. That we should encounter this within the Christian church should only come as a slight shock.


Perhaps we are thinking in unconstructive lines. May I suggest prayer towards this matter? While this topics general feel has been "lets jump on the dumb people" (An attitude I helped perpetuate), if we are to continue to discuss matters like this, I feel that the best possible thing we could do is commit the entire issue into the hands of God, in which it shall be much safer and infinitely more accomplishable than if we were to take it "on our own".

At the same time, I don't feel as though this topic really has a point, even in the beginning. Has anyone here emailed or spoken with this man to try and discuss comparitive theology? No. Has anyone written a defense of Lewisian theology (Of which I am a heavy supporter) As a rebuttal? No. This has merely been another moment of "Look at the Unpleasant Thing, Then Gang Up On The Unpleasant Thing"(Again, something I helped for the sake of amusement). At this point I suggest prayer (What you decide to pray about is up to you, however, I have found that no one ever questions your logic if prayer is your first bit of advice) A nice cup of cocoa, and something by C.S. Lewis, all the while being thankful that while we do share fellowship with people of this sort of thinking, we do our best not to perpetuate their kind of thinking.

Just a thought.

[Angel37]

I fear I am exceedingly cynical regarding this prospect.

Sadly, I am as well. Fanatics such as these are usually convinced of their own sense of being right. Anyone who'd try to chide them, even gentley, would be considered one of the enemy to them. When someone goes to such a great extent as these people did, it is usually a sign that their pride will keep them from seeing the truth.
I went to school with people like this- adamant Christians who condemned everything but walked in their own sense of righteousness. Despite our both being part of Christ's family, when I tried to open their eyes, I was immediately rejected, despised, and lied about.
All we can do is pray that God causes their pride to be their fall in a way that they will see the truth before it is too late.

[Hitokiri]

When it all comes down to it, does it really matter?

[mitsuki lover]

Probably not since not too many people take it seriously.
btw:Interesting fact I found when I was doing some more research on the site yesterday.Apparently they think the word A-S-S as in DONKEY is a bad word and must mean something different to the British,but they've called their own site
BALAAM'S A-S-S and some people even thought it was a PORN SITE! I found a review of it that said so.
Also on Narnia they do a whole spiel trying to show that Peter stands for the Catholic church.Partly because he's NAMED Peter and also because of some other
things that they've gotten all mixed up.
btw:High King refers to the ancient Irish title.

[termyt]

However, I also stand by my fairly negative view of the site as a whole. Though only occasionally false, the site consistently misuses quotes or misapplies logic. As a whole (more than just the Lewis section), the tone is more mocking than arguing. It also takes some views that I honestly believe are heresies and a great many more that I feel are highly unwise. I feel that as a Christian I have an obligation to denounce these things, though hopefully in the spirit of love.

That basically states my opinion of the site as well. I am always saddened when the nature of God is misrepresented to support our own world view instead of being willing to alter our view to match His.

As to whether this thread is worthwhile or not, I was once like the person who wrote this site. I have also been the type to quickly condemn sites like it. I have since learned, by the grace of God, that most things are not as simple as being either right or wrong. If anyone here has been helped along this path to discernment, then it was very worthwhile.

[Technomancer]

Finding stupid things on the internet is no great feat. Any idiot can put up a webpage spouting their opinion, and after all, far too many of them do. Is it anything to be worried about? There are enough real examples of such lunacy without inventing more. Nobody can open these people's minds for them, and it does little good complaining about their opininons. If you feel the need to do something, then just make sure these kinds of people don't get elected to anything.

[Sapphire225]

I'm shocked. I don't know if he really said that but I felt really hurt that someone felt that way.

[mitsuki lover]

I skimmed some more of what was on the site.For some reason he has a thing against Quakers.He had this whole rant that included Quakers in it.He also seems to hate anyone who works at Biola,Dallas Theological Seminary and Talbot Theological Seminary.
Then there's the entire conspiracy that the U.S. government is trying to put us back into the U.K.
In the e-mail section he pretty much slammed anyone who disagreed with him no matter how rational and diplomatic they tried to be.
Fortunately people like this are on the far fringes so we need not worried too much.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Quakers are a 'Christian' cult, but there are some people that belong to groups of Quakers that have branched off and profess that Jesus is Lord.
While the site is disturbing for us, what I really worry about are all the 'new' Christians or non-Christians who view that site and believe God is just judgemental and condemns basically anything this man doesn't happen to like. That can really hurt our witness as Christ. Remember whatever we do, to do it as a witness for Christ.

[QtheQreater]

Heh...wackos! Man, I love C.S. Lewis's stuff. But this isn't the first place I've seen this weirdness about him. The New York Times, I believe, had an article about his narnia books that made me sick. I don't get stuff from the NYT anymore...

[Kat Walker]

Anyone else think its ironic that this site is called "blessedquietness.com"?

I have the feeling if I actually met this guy in person, he'd be anything BUT quiet, peaceful, and pleasant.

This guy seems like he gets way too much enjoyment out of pointing out who does and doesn't get to go to heaven. No real Christian would be eager to see someone go to hell, no matter how wrong/sinful/mislead they are. Besides, judgement is God's job, and His alone. What an arrogant hypocrite.

[uc pseudonym]

Quakers are a 'Christian' cult, but there are some people that belong to groups of Quakers that have branched off and profess that Jesus is Lord.

Hm, I don't believe so. Just to clear the Quaker name:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers

Anyone else think its ironic that this site is called "blessedquietness.com"?

Heh. Yes I did, though I had forgotten about it until now.

[mitsuki lover]

Quakers=Friends.

As far as it goes when we were living in western Washington we went to a church that back then belonged to the Independent Fundementalist Churches of America,but even they would have been flaming liberals according to the site's webmaster because (HORRORS) people actually used the New American Standard
and New International versions!

[USSRGirl]

Pssssh. C.S. not a Christian? Yeah right. He's one of the most famous Christian appologetics of all time. Not to mention one of my favorite authors....

I RIP THERE HEADS OFF FOR THIS!!!

[USSRGirl]

OOOH!!! I've been trying to become a Quaker!!

:: Wants to be a friend and eat hot cereal ::

--- Edit --- Excuse this random outburst ---

[Starfire1]

how in the world is Christmas, of all holidays, a pagan holiday?

[loki]

how in the world is Christmas, of all holidays, a pagan holiday?

December 25 actually falls on a pagan holiday. I can’t remember the name of it at the moment. The early Church would often Christianize a pagan holiday or festival to make it easer to keep recent converts from other religions. Halloween is also a good example. And the Easter Bunny also comes from such a holiday that corresponded with the Easter Season.

[Authority3000]

Yeah, although I strongly disagree with the "Christmas is pagan" stance on that matter, it's admittedly a considerably less preposterous notion then much of that site's other materiel - the issue proving to be a controversial debate for intelligent minds on both sides.

[uc pseudonym]

Just for a bit more information on that topic, so that something good can come out of all this:

Most of the Christian holidays were intentionally placed on major pagan holidays in order to attempt to convert those celebrations. This is true for all of those that I can think of except Pentecost, which is founded upon a Jewish holiday timetable. So you could argue that the holidays have pagan origins, but does that really make much of a difference? I am personally less concerned about Christmas being on a pagan holiday than I am about the materialism being worshipped on that date.

For that matter, there is strong evidence (though I couldn't provide an immediate citation if anyone asked) that the primary Hebrew religious festivals were placed upon the dates of surrounding culture's events. I think there is nothing wrong with the modern church continuing this general custom.

[Swordguy]

i agree, as with most things like this it is in how we take it. Do we reflect Christ in it or not, that is the real question, and it is our live that are the answer

[Nate]

Christmas is celebrated on the pagan holiday of Yuletide, by the way. The tradition of Christmas ham also harkens back to the Yuletide tradition of offering a pig to the goddess Freya.

[Puritan]

Mmm, the church made a real point of trying to turn pagan holidays to Christian purposes, and it really makes sense in my opinion. After all, it's not like we know when Christ was born, so why not change a pagan festival into a celebration of Christ rather than creating new dates and whatnot. It was an attempt to Christianize culture, and it seems to have worked quite well overall, although certainly not perfectly.

As for the site, well, I hate to say it doesn't surprise me, but it doesn't. Sadly, there are plenty of people everywhere who will use ad hominem arguments and leap to conclusions to discredit people, and the church unfortunately has its share of these people. For me, it stands more as a reminder that I, too, should constantly examine what I am thinking and saying to ensure that I have not become so sure of myself that I leap to comclusions in my own way. Without care, it is very easy for well meaning people to get so caught up in a line of thought they can't see the forest for the trees, myself included.

The most sad part about it, to me, is that silly things like this can obscure whatever true Christian belief the writer has and even make the Faith look tainted. I have to echo Termyt, but I want to take it a step further. It is a sad fact that even the best people can believe bizarre things, and I have to agree with Calvin when he said that even the best thologian is only right 80% of the time. The other 20% is often used by the world to obscure the correct 80%, and while I would hardly consider this site top grade theological material, it is too easy to simply dismiss someone like this and miss whatever truth they may have to offer. I'm not trying to defend the author by any means, but I think we need to take people's arguments for what they are rather than automatically dismissing people with strange views as idiots. Even great Christians have their faults, and if we start dismissing people because of them we can miss the truly important things people have to say. I won't go into specifics to avoid theological debate, but from my study you can find people in any part of Christianity who have acted oddly or had strange ideas, but also truly desired to serve God and did great things in His service. I have seen too many great pillars of the faith from multiple Christian traditions slandered and ignored or even hated because they weren't perfect, so I would urge people to be careful in name calling, even though the arguments and ideas are odd or downright wrong.