I have a question...

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:03 pm

Yeah... I'm explaining Sex to my kids when they're young. Then when they're older. Then when they're older again. And by the time they TURN two (wah wah...)

No, but seriously honesty and open discussion is needed to keep people from sexual sins. Honesty and FRANKNESS (frankness is sort like honesty with very little to no tact) I'm going to tell my kids early on, probably when they're 7 or 8, because they'll be getting it early on from other sources. Hiding in a dark corner only weakens your defenses. Keeping sex in the dark is what made it so "dirty" to begin with, and what gave it this feeling of being some sort of game.

I am also going to show my kids movies with things that they should not be doing in them. Because I'm going to watch actively with them, explain what's good and bad, explain what's real and fake, explain what is natural and what is made to look so. In addition, I will point out the good things, and I will try to apply everything to the Bible... We live in a world of media and to ignore the greatest portion is not wise. But, to say that the Bible says to in any way is just not true. Anyhow... I have said too much allready...

Postby **Twilly Spree** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:16 pm

*claps* beautifully said Bob

Postby **cbwing0** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:26 am

Ruroken wrote:Many of you people here own anime/manga... Let's go with.. Love Hina, Chobits and MAYBE even Cowboy Bepop or anything else with too much fanservice and anything worse (wich a lot seem to have)... If Jesus Christ in the flesh was sitting there next to you (although he's there every moment of everyday anyways), watching, would you feel comfortable?:eyebrow:

If Jesus Christ in the flesh was sitting next to me, the last thing I would do is waste such precious time watching anime. I would probably just ask him some of my endless questions. :grin:

Really, it depends on the person. Some people are more susceptible to sexual sin, and those people should not open themselves to temptation anymore than is necessary.

Ruroken wrote:***Okay ... try this.. say you just watched a bad sceene.. okay nothing happened right? you were strong... Wil you be strong to marrow? how do you know?***

I don't know if I would be strong, but I do know that the Lord will always be strong, and that he is the source of my strength. Still, I wouldn't dwell on something that I knew would tempt me, because that is a recipe for defeat.

I respect what you are saying Ruroken, and it does illustrate an important truth: "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's spirit lives in you?" (1 Corinthians 3:16) For those that know they are sinning, this should be a sobering thought. Your body is God's temple: act accordingly. However, it is not our place to judge others in such matters as anime fanservice. They should know themselves well enough to determine whether or not viewing such things will lead them to sin.

Bobtheduck wrote:I am also going to show my kids movies with things that they should not be doing in them. Because I'm going to watch actively with them, explain what's good and bad, explain what's real and fake, explain what is natural and what is made to look so. In addition, I will point out the good things, and I will try to apply everything to the Bible... We live in a world of media and to ignore the greatest portion is not wise. But, to say that the Bible says to in any way is just not true. Anyhow... I have said too much allready..

I agree. It is important for us to guide our children, teaching them the difference between right and wrong. In addition, we should give them a solid foundation in the bible, and in the example of our own lives as parents. Of course, I do not have chidlren and I am not married; but this is how I will raise my family when (and if) I have one.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:37 pm

i disagree w/ bob somewaht. if all you show em is the truth (the Bible) they'll know that everything else is wrong. there's no need to show em movies w/ bad/ fake stuff.

Postby **Twilly Spree** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:45 pm

I think you totally missed Bob's point Ruroken.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:10 pm

Ah...

A while back, on a Pokemon/Team Rocket message board that turned into more... there was a disscussion in the free-talk area about the Kjos Ministries, whom someone had linked, annoyed at their bashing of Pokemon... It turned into one of many threads I was in where I had to defend Christianity against a tide of people who... frankly... thought of Christians as stupid. (As both a Christian and a Pokemon fan).

An intelligent, non-Christian young man, a college student by tne handle of Winged Kaumi recounted a story of a pair of brothers he knew in high school or his neighborhood or something. The children's parents dissallowed any books in their house besides the Bible, because, according to them "all other books were lies". The result... these brothers that Kaumi knew barely knew how to read.

And... I think his... expereince with these people contributed to his dubious/negative veiw of Christians and Christianity.

So.. just be careful when you pull "People should only see the truth" thing...

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:22 pm

i guess in a place that's so screwed up no a days, i guess it would be a good thing to explain som things to kids weh they're younger.... ugh...

Postby **Needle Noggin** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:24 am

Ok I'm going to say yes(about being comfortable) because I don't think it's bad unless we actually do bad things. Or think bad things.If you think about it its really silly for watching a cartoon to be something bad.

EDIT: I'm sure this has been explained but, some poeple are not affected at all by sexual temptation while they are affected by voilence or other things. Like my Brother If he see's sothing like a fighting scene on Ruoroni Kenshin or DBZ he will try are act it out on me or my other brother. While my other brother will say bad words if he hears them on Yu Yu Hakusho(uncut) or something but he never trys to hurt me or our other brother.

And one last thing I don't belevie that any sin is worse than another one they are all sin and all bad.

Postby **Needle Noggin** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:44 am

I don't think I should do this but I wanted to see the conclusion to this diccusion.So
I revived this topic.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:28 pm

Needle Noggin wrote:Ok I'm going to say yes(about being comfortable) because I don't think it's bad unless we actually do bad things. Or think bad things.If you think about it its really silly for watching a cartoon to be something bad.

EDIT: I'm sure this has been explained but, some poeple are not affected at all by sexual temptation while they are affected by voilence or other things. Like my Brother If he see's sothing like a fighting scene on Ruoroni Kenshin or DBZ he will try are act it out on me or my other brother. While my other brother will say bad words if he hears them on Yu Yu Hakusho(uncut) or something but he never trys to hurt me or our other brother.

And one last thing I don't belevie that any sin is worse than another one they are all sin and all bad.

hmmm thinking bad things is the same. i think its bad to watch anything that has a CHANCE of causing one to sin...?

Postby **Kisa** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:45 pm

With those animes, I would feel ok watching some of it, but alot of it I would be sooooo embarassed. God is sitting there with you all the time anyway . . . think about that.

Postby **Needle Noggin** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:10 pm

Ruroken wrote:hmmm thinking bad things is the same. i think its bad to watch anything that has a CHANCE of causing one to sin...?

Is that a Question? :sweat:

And if it is a question I guess you can watch next to nothing because almost any thing can temp someone to sin.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:42 pm

well if it works. OK OK, not everything is bad. if there's a little fanservice in a comical way ill let it slide. if its fanservice only to create lust, that's different, right? THere's only so much you can do... if you go to the beach, women are gonna be clad in skimpy suites... well you could just never got o the beach... *ponders*

Postby **Needle Noggin** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:48 pm

I have a question for you Ruroken have you ever seen Love Hina or any of the things you mentioned. :eyebrow:

You never know you could come to like them if you actually saw them

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:49 pm

because ive read about them and seen screen shots and such... perhpas i have only seen the worst those shows have to offer?

Postby **Needle Noggin** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:55 pm

What you have heard was proubly someone telling you all the negative aspects of the show...Not necesssrly in a bad way but more like trying to warn you.

I pesonally like Love Hina so I guess I am kinda Biased.Although like many people said before It all depends on the person.

If you don't like it or it makes you feel bad don't watch it.

Postby **Lluvia** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:27 pm

[font=Verdana]No offence to anyone of course, but I don't like to make a habit of watching anime like Cowboy Bebop because of the dirty language, dirty scenes, dirty clothes, and etc. as it comes off as ungodly. It furthermore simply sickens me and depresses me that there are actually people like that in the word. But in any case, a lot of times in anime those sorts of deeds are inevitable, just as public television is on a whole. We all have our specific passions, and ours happens to be anime, therefore I don't believe God would mind, as long as we don't mirror on the things we see in what we watch. ^^[/font]

[font=Verdana]- Lluvia[/font]

Postby **Needle Noggin** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:41 am

Ruroken wrote:well if it works. OK OK, not everything is bad. if there's a little fanservice in a comical way ill let it slide. if its fanservice only to create lust, that's different, right? THere's only so much you can do... if you go to the beach, women are gonna be clad in skimpy suites... well you could just never got o the beach... *ponders*

I wanted to say something about this earlyer but I forgot.

Say you grew up In Maryland and Delaware like I did If I see someone
in a bikine(sp?) I just see them and give no second notice.I guess I am just used to it but someone from Texas might not think the same way about it.
Not to long ago on a forum (not sure if it was this one so if it was I mean no offense :sweat:

) Someone said they hated when girls weared bikinis I sat there for a second thinking how in the world can you not notice all
the people wearing bikinis.I guess they never whet to a beach or they don't live close to them.

if its fanservice only to create lust, that's different, right?

Yeah I think that is more my style of thinking I have never seen the Love Hina Manga so I can't comment on that,but in this case in the first 8 episodes I can only remeber one thing that might be just for lust even that was iffy.

Ok thats all i wanted to say.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:05 pm

Lluvia wrote:
[font=Verdana]No offence to anyone of course, but I don't like to make a habit of watching anime like Cowboy Bebop because of the dirty language, dirty scenes, dirty clothes, and etc. as it comes off as ungodly. It furthermore simply sickens me and depresses me that there are actually people like that in the word. But in any case, a lot of times in anime those sorts of deeds are inevitable, just as public television is on a whole. We all have our specific passions, and ours happens to be anime, therefore I don't believe God would mind, as long as we don't mirror on the things we see in what we watch. ^^[/font]

[font=Verdana]- Lluvia[/font]

nice. I feel the same lluvia, sort of. I think God does mind. you people here dont go by swim suit callendars* because you need a new one. I dont buy fanservicy, blasthemus anime because i want a new story to sink my teeth into or see top notch animation, ect.
*okay maybe swimsuite callendars are a bit much but you get what i mean...*

Postby **Lluvia** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:31 pm

[font='Times New Roman']Good point. Perhaps I should add something to that post of mine... Some Christians are easily tempted in that area, and therefore should be certain not to watch such entertainment for the reason that they may sin. Not to mention, pray to God for more strength. ^^[/font]

[font='Times New Roman']- Lluvia[/font]

Postby **inkjet1987** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:30 pm

Sorry, this is just the perfectionist in me. The dictionary says:

Blasphemy:a: The act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God. b: the act of claiming the attributes of deity. c: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable.

Neither of the shows you listed have direct insults toward God, you used the wrong wording. Sorry, no offense.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:13 am

Agreed with inkjet on the nitpicks. The closest thing to "blasphemy" is in the *UNEDITED* first episode of CB, and that is *only* if you define misusing God's name as the sin of blasphemy rather than defining them as separate sins.

I for one am rather annoyed at the careless definition of sins. Blasphemy is exactly what Inkjet defined it as.

Blasphemy:a: The act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God.

Under definition a, blasphemy is basically mouthing off at or about God. For example, someone who claims that God is a liar is blaspheming under this definition.

b: the act of claiming the attributes of deity.

Anyone who claims to be God or to have any of His attributes in totality is blaspheming according to this definition. For example, someone who says "I am God" or says "only I know what God's Word says" is blaspheming according to definition b.

c: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable.

This is possibly a way to say that misusing the name of God is blasphemy, I will give you that (and I don't personally misuse His Name so I am not defending that sin at all), but I personally believe this to be defining *intentional* irreverance toward something sacred or inviolable, not simply an act by someone who doesn't know or even doesn't care. For example, *intentional* irreverance (and I'm not a Catholic, this is just a ready example) would be someone who not only didn't believe in taking communion in a Catholic church, who not only didn't know that to Catholics, the Host is considered the body of Christ-but someone who knew both these things and spat on it. That is what I believe this definition to be.

In short, using these definitions, very few animes (even among those we love to hate) are actually "blasphemous." They may be sinful in other ways, but actual "blasphemy" is an empty charge in many instances.

My Live Journal · Postby **Saint Kevin** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:39 pm

Ruroken I think you've taken an important step (that all of us at CAA have to take at some point) by coming to terms with the kinds of anime/manga you choose to watch. Also, it was good of you to ask for the advice of your Christian brothers and sisters to give you guidance in the area. Ultimately though, your decision to watch certain kinds of anime or not is a personal decision, one between you and God. You are accountable toward God for the personal decisions you make that are in areas not clearly defined in scripture (to eat meat, worshipping on saturday/sunday/everyday, or even what you watch for entertainment). The book of Romans is perhaps one of the best in dealing with these gray areas, in particular chapter 14. You can read Romans chapter 14 here

In particular I'd like to point out verses 10, 13, and 16.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of

I believe that these verses tell us that we cannot decide for another what is wrong for them in "gray areas" not clearly defined in scripture (like watching explicit anime)

Also, we cannot tell you, for example, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you watching explicit anime, because in doing so we may provide you with a way to rationalize something that you believe is sin. I personally, have to restrict my viewing of any sexually explicit material because I am more prone to sin in that area than my Christian brothers and sisters, at least, that is what God has shown me to be true of my own heart.

Verse 16 also tells me that I cannot sit idly by and let someone condemn one of my brethren by calling their actions sinful, when it is not clear from scripture that they are so; Especially when they are already convinced in their own minds that the Lord approves of their behavior.

If you, or anyone else can show me clearly from scripture that such behavior is wrong, I will submit to correction, but as it stands, this matter seems like it is a personal one between you and Christ.

I hope I did not come across as harsh as it sounds like I did. If that is the case, please forgive me, but I feel I had to say what I did. Also feel free to PM me if you have any questions, or just feel that I am plain wrong.

I have to throw this on the end as well. I love you all as brethren, and do not mean to disrespect any of you. With that in mind, think for yourselves on what Paul has said in Romans 14, and tell me what you think.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:34 pm

well if i were watching explicit anime, i'd condemn myself, calling myself sinful.

If you, or anyone else can show me clearly from scripture that such behavior is wrong, I will submit to correction, but as it stands, this matter seems like it is a personal one between you and Christ.

how can such behavior be right? how can watching explicet anime be right? it makes no sense. i dont even think people shoudl see the second matrix because neo and trinity fooled around!
bad thoughts are a sin. Iguess some people jsut dont ever have "impure" thoguhts after seeing a sexuall seen in the movie.
whatever. EVERYTHING IS JUST SO WRONG THESE DAYS!. decades ago, there was no nudity hardly in media. like the john wayne movie hatari. this lady stood up in the bath, because she got scared. you didnt even see her back in the seen! im sure if anything was shown, people would have been disgusted.
then again, nudity isnt a bad thing, nor is sex. but that belongs ONLY in marrige, and should NEVER been seen outside the bedroom. hence it shouldnt be on your tv screen. abouth e only time nudity should be seen is by a husband and wife, or by a doctor, or a mother carring for a child. none of you bye swimsuite calendars when you need a new one right? then why would you bye explicit anime just because yuo want to know another interesting story? the bible says the sex belongs between a man and his wife ONLY, and shouldb e kept privet.
i dunno, maybe you all are right, and threre's nothign wrong with seeing explicit content and seeing sex and fanservice. perhaps i'm defeated here. i thogut the bible would say to stay away from that stuff.

Postby **inkjet1987** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:08 pm

Ruroken wrote:well if i were watching explicit anime, i'd condemn myself, calling myself sinful.

Again, like it was mentioned before, these are your own personal standards, you can not hold anyone else to your own standards and condemn them. There is nothing wrong with you not wanting to watch certain material, some people are more effected by certain things then others are.

Postby **Twilly Spree** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:58 pm

*nods* I agree Ink.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:37 pm

Ooh, and Michelangelo was such a sinner because he painted naked people (in illustrating the Bible) all over the Sistine Chapel...

And people who go to art museums to see Renaisscance art must all be so sinful..

Postby **madphilb** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:58 pm

Thoughts are not sinful... entertaining them are. Seeing nudity isn't sinful, dweling on the imagery and whatnot is...

You try to use the example of a "girly" calendar to compare to a 90 min. movie that has a, what, 5 min scene in it. And on the DVD it's even better because you can hit "Next" for the next scene at the start of the "Rave" and you are only left with some naked man butt (and barely any of that). The "girly" calendar that you talk about is a different story, there are usually at least 12 pages there (plus the cover), the pages are in plain sight every time you use the calendar (unless you fold it in half and the picture is behind where you can't see it). The purpose of getting the calendar would be more to look at the girls, and I would have to say that Christian men should stay away from those sorts of things (simply due to how we are built, such visuals start chemical reactions in our brains). Women generally would have no interest in such a thing, but I doubt it would matter, as they don't generally react physically the same as men to those sorts of things.

What really confuses me (though each person is different) is that you seem to fuss about watching "fanservice" when most all of it is female (and unless I'm reading your gender wrong, that's what you are). Have you had to shower at school with others of your same gender? Frankly I hated it to the point of not doing it (and thankfully the school didn't press the point.... then again I did my best not to break a sweat in PE in school

).

I think, like many people, you're confusing temptation for sin (didn't someone already cover this here?). And even then, not everyone is tempted by the same thing... you can pass a joint or a bottle of booze under my nose and it won't tempt me one bit, I have not interest in those things, and even then, I could take a drink of the booze (not sure if the drug would be sin other than the fact that it's illegal) and not sin because I have not interest in being drunk (which is what the Bible commands us not to be).

For me, you could flash naked man butt in front of me all day long, I'd be repulsed before anything else... I very much doubt I'd be tempted to do or think anything impure about it. (reminds me of a funny story, picked up a Jackie Chan video at the library one day, saw it had "brief nudity" in it, but decided to get it anyway, I've got one of his videos that has some quick flashes of women, nothing that can't be dealth with by turning my head for a second or two, anyway... when I watched it the "brief nudity" turned out to be Jackie's own fanny... and it was quite funny too, as the situations his characters get into often are... but I'm getting off-track).

I've known people who if you passed the bottle of booze or the joint under thier nose you would be tempting them (and even then, those things in their pressence wouldn't be sin, only what actions they take)... they would be tempted because they have/have had problems with those things.

Let me ask this... you say that nudity should only be between a man and a woman in the bedroom... are all the Pigmies that run around topless in sin even though it's a natural thing for them? How is the doctor any less prone to temptation as myself or any other person?

Would I feel comfortable watching some of this stuff with Yeshua sitting next to me? Hopefully comfortable enough to ask why His people haven't been a better influence on the world around us to keep the social standards high enough that these sorts of issues wouldn't need to come up. I'd have to ask why His people spend all their time bickering about why their kids should or shouldn't be reading Harry Potter intead of taking advantage of having the creator of the universe living in their hearts and producing much better quality stuff (much as Mr. Lewis did with the Narnia series) so we wouldn't have to worry about how popular Ms. Rowling's writings are, or better yet, why Ms. Rowling isn't serving Him with her whole heart. I might have to ask why all the Christian movies and video games are sub-standard by 5 year old standards, heck, the BBC produces better quality stuff than Christians do (UK people, hopefully you'll understand where I'm comming from with this, I'm a big fan of several BBC productions).

Ok.... deep breath... exhale... wheeew.... sorry, got carried away.

I can't speak for anything other than Cowboy Beebop, and then for the most part only from the show as it aired on Cartoon Network (I did see 4 or 5 shows on DVD though). I like the show, and not for what Fay wears in it, but her style of dress doesn't "turn me on" either.

There seems to be two lines of thought people have on things.

The first goes along with a story that a "friend" of mine told once (when she was on her self-righeous horse) of a woman who's children where going to go to the movies, some movie or another, what it was really doesn't matter.... something PG, with just a little bit of this or that in it (cussing, violence, take your pick). The woman made some brownies for them for desert before they went out to the movies, but she told them she put some poo in it.... real poo from the dog in the back yard. "But it's only a little bit of poo." and everyone decided not to eat the brownies, or goto that movie. This seems to be your stand on things Ruroken, and if that's where God had you, if that's where you and He have decided your life is to be, that's exactly what you are to do, and without appology, and we cannot argue against that in any way.

However I'm not so much of this line of thought... I tend to be the type who pulls the long hair out of my muffin that I'm eating, cast it aside and try not to think about where it came from

I don't feel the 1st concept is quite the same sort of thing, because I can't "pick around" the poo that was baked into the brownies... little or not, where I can ignore the bit of language, or look away from the bit of "skin" on the screen and then not entertain those thoughts afterwards.

There are movies that are so filled with such things that I don't watch them for that reason, I can't "pick around" the bad spots.

Just as a point of reference, this same "friend" of mine who told me that story is a big fan of CSI and as far as I know still watches it. I however STOPPED watching it because the subject matter each week was so horrid and perverted it seemed. It didn't seem to matter what the murder was, they where mopping up some sort of sex-related fluids for DNA testing. On top of that the show was listed as being a very unfriendly show family wise by some group or another.

It's important to understand that we're not talking about something black-n-white here... if the shows you where talking about where something that was just plain old Henti, then yes... you'd run as far as you can from it, but we're not talking about porn here, we're talking about a grey area. In a situation you are commanded to respect another believer's convictions on the issue as we're required to respect yours.... because you believe it's wrong for you (or if it's a case of your parents, who are responsible for you, feel it's wrong from you) that doesn't automatically make it wrong for me. We're not talking about murder, stealing, idol worhip, or anything like that.

Hopefully you'll come to see this.

Postby **Aka-chan** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:40 pm

I personally try to be careful with the animes I look into, but the question that nags at me the most (especially if I think about Jesus being right there with me) is "How much time is this taking up?" We're only allotted so long on this earth, and I know I'll have to answer for the way I spent it. The thoughts "How do I glorify God through this? Do I?" inevitably follow.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:18 am

Madphlib, you spoke so much more eloquently than I did. Other than that, I'd say don't press it, Ruroken. You're making a lot of people mad and you're just plain wrong on this. The bible doesn't say "don't see nudity" it says don't look at someone to lust after them. It's not a sin to watch this stuff unless the Holy Spirit has guided you away from that, and he does NOT guide everyone in the same way... Plain and simple. Please do not try to impose your extra-biblical standards on everyone else, that's definately wrong. If it was something truely biblical, then you would be fine in the right timing, but you do not have the authority to direct us like this...

I have a question...

Httgr

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