Anime "Purists"

[Maledicte]

On many anime forums, not just this one, I have often seen posts like:"I'm a purist, so I only watch my anime subbed." I watch my anime dubbed, by default, so does that make me not a purist? I consider myself a "purist" even if I don't always watch it in its original language. I think the most important thing about anime is the story and second, the animation. The language in which its spoken in does not impact either.
Other so-called purists seem to avoid dubs like a friend with halitosis. this is hardly fair, as there are some decent, and some very good, dubs out there. What about Trigun? RahXephon? Or Blackjack? Princess Mononoke? Ghost in the Shell:SAC? or for heaven's sake Cowboy Bebop? I think these interpretations do the English-speaking audience justice.
That doesn't mean I don't watch subbed at all, though. Some dubs are exactly as they say--hideous, and only a sub will do (I am sooo glad that my sister bought Gundam Wing subbed). but then, sometimes the JApanese voices can be irritating too (for example, I found Ayato's seiyuu in RahXephon grating to my ears).
Like I said, the language doesn't matter. If America had started making anime first, no one would mind that it was in english, would they?
But that's my take on the subject. I think i'm ready to take you all on...
P.S. And I think Crispin Freeman has a very lovely speaking voice. Even you subbers can't deny that!

[Joshua Christopher]

Well...

I don't mind either, it just depends on the series.

First off, saying that you have to watch it subbed, since that was the creators intention when creating it is wrong. The creator didn't intend English words at the bottom of every scene. You "purists" better learn Japanese.

Now, it really depends on the anime itself.
Take Giant Robo: the dub voices aren't too bad, but they screwed up some points in the story, making it somewhat inconsistent.
Take Gundam Wing: BETTER in English. The translation is almost word for word, and the voices are more enjoyable.

But don't worry about what everyone else says.

[Cap'n Nick]

It sounds like you're a purist, only you're a purist about entertainment. I think I'm in the same boat - if I choose sub or dub, it's because one was more enjoyable and not because it is somehow closer to the original.

But really, I don't like that word, "purist." It implies that one is somehow superior because of the way they choose to view their anime. It's also pretty silly in this context. If you're relying on a translation of any type you can hardly say that you're getting the same thing out of it that a native speaker would.

[Hitokiri]

I agree with Cap'n Crack about the purist thing. I love anime and it's my favorite hobby. However I don'y consider myself a "purist" even though I enjoy, watch, and thing akin to those who profess to be "purists". i will watch it ubbed or dubbed...makes no difference to me.

Cowboy Bebop is a great dub an dI prefer that over the subbed any day...same goes with RahXephon, Outlaw Star, and even Evangelion. However I will watch Hellsing, Grave of the Fireflies, and Love Hina subbed because either the large amounts of swearing (Hellsing) or the horrible voice acting and lack of emotion (Love Hina and Grave).

By default though, I will watch it dubbed cause I can understand it better....that and I also draw when I watch anime so that I know what's going on, I watch it dubbed.

[ShiroiHikari]

"purist", to me, is a euphemism for "elitist". there's nothing wrong with preferring subs over dubs (I prefer them myself), but people take it way too far. there's also nothing wrong with preferring dubs.

my suggestion is, don't label yourself. just watch what you like and call it good :]

as for me, I'd just rather hear the voices the way they were originally. I don't like it when anime is messed with. although I don't watch it raw...I don't know enough Japanese yet.

[Gypsy]

my suggestion is, don't label yourself. just watch what you like and call it good :]

Hai.

[John316]

Dubs add an unnecessary level of risk to anime-watching. Good dubs can come close to the original, but almost never reach it.

More importantly, my reason for exclusively watching subs is that there's no doubting the truly best way to watch anime: raw. To really get the full meaning of the dialogue, you need to know Japanese and understand certain aspects of Japanese culture. Watching subbed anime helps with this greatly, expecially if you have a year or two of Japanese education under your belt. If you watch dubs you will never improve in understanding Japanese either as a language or a culture.

Bottom line: if you don't care, do what you like. If you really want to learn more, subbed is the only way to go.

[Nate]

To me, it depends on the series...a lot of dubs are hideous, horrendous, and downright shameful. Someone already mentioned Love Hina, I think. Oh, and Sailor Moon and Fushigi Yugi. ><

Good dubs can come close to the original, but almost never reach it.

There are exceptions, though. I think the English dubbed version of Ranma is actually kinda superior to the original Japanese.

But that might just be me.

[Hitokiri]

I've heard English voice actors being bashed on many times because they "butchered" the anime. They are doing what they are suposed to do and I think they do it in thier best intentions...not to completely ruin the anime.

[Ingemar]

"purist", to me, is a euphemism for "elitist".

EXACTLY. IMNSHO, one cannot label oneself a "purist" by watching a sub. Or even learning Japanese. One can only do so by watching anime with the same attitude and ethos as a Japanese person. That is, one must have an intimate connection with the Japanese culture and worldview, something that simply cannot be derived from a tourist book about Japanese culture.

So obviously, the "purists" are the Japanese themselves. But by ShiHi's estimation, I guess that would make them "elitists." Works, I guess. The Japanese aren't exactly warm and cuddly to foreigners. Or at least White people.

I am one, but not the other. Figure it out.

[Debitt]

Well...I guess I could be considered a "purist" by definition of "watching and preferring subs." I watch subs. I prefer subs. I get most of the jokes in subs, and I'm not squirmy about the Buddhist philosophies that are in some anime, because of my heritage.

That doesn't mean that I won't watch dubs, and it doesn't mean a look down on dubs, though. It's just my personal preference, and I think anyone who dislikes someone else for watching dubs is just...stupid. >_>; And besides, many of us aren't real "purists" by any definition because most of us don't hail from the land of the rising sun. So get over the labels and just enjoy what you enjoy.

[Hitokiri]

I find it hard to focus on my drawing and read the subtitles.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I like anime subbed because it's their original voice. And many voices are bad, like Alphonse in FMA, Duo Maxwell. What ALSO irritates me like crazy is when they mispronounce character names with an english accent, for example. Sakura, in a subbed anime, they say it like "sa-ku-rah" really fast. In some dubbed animes, they say "sah-KOO-RUH" and stuff.

I like things original. Let's take final fantasy dawn of souls for example. They are remakes of 1 and 2. Sure, its a good game, but id MUCH perfer the original graphics and sound. Let it's true quality shine. I suppose the original star wars trilogy. Im not saying special edition is the devil, nor is the SE DVDs evil, but i'd perfer the original trilogy.

[Maledicte]

I find it hard to focus on my drawing and read the subtitles.

that's exactly what I do! I also do my homework, write my novel, paint and exercize all while watching anime. That's the lovely thing about the english language...I can understand it

[Chichiri]

I like Japanese, thus, I watch shows only in Japanese. I am not purist simply because i'm not an anime fanatic. I'm sure it's the same for many people.

[Cap'n Nick]

I read my earlier note and realized that I came off a bit too harsh on sub fans. Sorry about that. I enjoy a good dub, but subs are actually my preferred way to watch because I am studying Japanese and because I became an anime fan in the dark ages when many a horrible dub still walked the earth.

But, I'll have to side with kaemmerite and say that the Ranma dub totally ownz the original.

[Ingemar]

Purists aren't elitists either, elitists are just people who think they're better than you because they know something that you don't know.

Uh huh. I watched so and so in the original language. This line is a joke that only those who have a good command of Japanese, ie, me have. You wouldn't understand, you're uninitiated.
No elitism there.

[Aoyama]

I like subbed anime because I have heard to many horrible dubbed animes lol. As an example a friend wanted to watch Devil Hunter Yohko dubbed and the voice for the main character was horrible in my oppion. If I had not seen the series a long time ago and had been watching it for the first time I would have hated the character just because it was annoying to listen to.

Now I do have some friends that can't keep up with the subtitles so I have to watch them dubbed I don't complain but would prefer subbed . Most of the anime I get a hold of isn't dubbed but only subbed.

[Cap'n Nick]

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the ability of subtitles to take the sting out of bad dialogue. It's a lot harder to be mad when you have to piece together the voice and the words before you can figure out that it stinks. And if something has a really dumb name you can just use the Japanese name and suddenly it's cool and exotic, even if it's still dumb in Japanese.

[teigeki_calesa]

Well, I can't blame the western hemisphere for the "purist" tendency, since I can see that most dubs there fall short of one's expectations. But for one thing, what I find annoying the most are "nitpickers", those who will rant to no end about a dub's "flaw" no matter how good the dubbing may be, falling short of saying that they will threaten, erm, bodily harm to the poor dubbers and the dubbing outfit. We had our share of those here in the Philippines, and I tell you, the "purists" here are a really nasty lot. No matter how good the dubbers get, they will NEVER be satisfied, and worst, most of them are "elitists" too, looking down on those who love dubs (GOOD dubs, mind you) like myself or anyone who they say as "not a real anime fan". I had lots of nasty experiences with them, an altough one of them may be considered an isolated case, it still reflects the massive hatred the hardliner anime fans here have for dubs, especially all the vitriol spewed by several "purist" nests at a recently launched all-Filipino language anime channel.

I really pity the talented but overworked and underpaid dubbers of my country.

[Cognitive Gear]

Well, I myself tend to be a bit of a "purist" when it comes to everything. I always try to get the item, whatever it may be, in it's original form and visoin. Ex: Watching movies in 16:9 as opposed to 4:3. Thus, I watch animes in Japanese for two reasons:

1. Listening to the VA that where originally intended to be there is closer to the original form and visoin.

2. I can't stand most english VA's. I swear that almost none of them know how to monitor the amount of emotion they put into it. Alot of it sounds forced.

There are exceptions to this, and if there is someone present who prefers the dub then I will watch that.

[Arnobius]

Well since nobody seems to mind this was gravedug...

I guess I am a "purist" in the sense that I think that if you are watching the anime in the Japanese language and turn off the subtitles there should be no difference between the episode on the American DVD and the episode shown in Japan. With most DVDs being dual language now [and as I understand it, most of the dub only DVDs are so because the Japanese rightsholder refused to release permission for the Japanese language track], the issue of having dubs on the disc doesn't bother me. What I hate are the overlays that replace the Japanese signs with English ones and the anime companies that rewrite the dialogue because it's easier than explaining a cultural reference.

It was easier to resent dub fans in the days of VHS when the people who wanted to get the Japanese language version had to pay an extra $10 per tape [in effect the sub fans were subsidizing the dub fans], but with the coming of the DVD, the prices benefitted the sub fan

The other major issue I had was with the (increasingly rare nowadays) problem of "dubtitles" where some genius decided nobody spoke Japanese and they could put the dubbed script on the screen and call it a "translation" [A problem in manga as well... with Keith Giffen wrecking Ikkitousen and Battle Royale with his "adaptions"]

Nowadays things are much better than they were in the past though as the American distributors seem to have learned not to cut corners and produce better quality products.

[Ingemar]

To all purists: I have 4 words for you--

Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust.

[mitsuki lover]

I am only a 'purist' in that I believe that anime ought to be shown unedited,uncut and uncensored.
I am not a purist when it comes to language.
Basically I am a dubber who also enjoys the occasional sub.Sometimes I will watch a subbed version of a series just to get a bit of contrast and also
for variance sake.
I don't believe the sub is necessarily a better translation than the dub or that the Japanese are better actors than the North Americans.
What it comes down to is really rather a simple matter of taste,that is all this is really about.
Some have tastes that run to the sub and others to the dub.
There is no room for elitism.

[Nate]

No matter how good the dubbers get, they will NEVER be satisfied, and worst, most of them are "elitists" too, looking down on those who love dubs (GOOD dubs, mind you) like myself or anyone who they say as "not a real anime fan".

I agree completely, teigeki. Naruto is the best, most high quality dub I have ever seen, and fans completely trash it. It's frustrating, because the message that sends to companies is "No matter how good a job we do, fans will never be satisified." That results in companies being less likely to license anime, because they will feel no matter how awesome of a job they do, people will just condemn their work. To be sure, there are quite a few bad dubs out there. There are also dubs that are neither good nor bad, just mediocre. But there are quite a few good dubs (the aforementioned Naruto) out there, and to lump them in with bad dubs just BECAUSE they're a dub, bothers me.

I'd also like to second Ingemar's statement about Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Anyone who says "I prefer to watch things in their original language," I ask them what language they watched that movie in. If they say Japanese, they are liars. Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust was done in English first, THEN Japanese second. Therefore, to be true to their statement about preferring the original language, they would actually have to like the dub of Bloodlust better.

2. I can't stand most english VA's. I swear that almost none of them know how to monitor the amount of emotion they put into it. Alot of it sounds forced.

True, but I'd argue a lot of Japanese VA's don't know how to monitor the amount of emotion they put into their lines either. The difference is that English VA's tend to put too little emotion into their lines, whereas Japanese VA's tend to put too much. I have seen plenty of anime where the Japanese VA's were just completey over the top, and it bugged me.

[Steeltemplar]

I have always preferred a good sub against a good dub. To me, the original voice acting in whatever language it may be is a part of the show's artistic expression. I will make no attempt to claim the label of "purist" or no. Simply, this is how I enjoy anime best and I feel that it is the closest I can experience to the intent of the creators since I do not personally know Japanese.

If you prefer dubs, more power to ya. It's subs for me, though

[Arnobius]

To all purists: I have 4 words for you--

Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust.

Yes that one is a paradox, so I haven't watched it
Though more seriously I suppose the purist thing to do is watch the original language.

It's not dogma here btw. It's preference

I'd also like to second Ingemar's statement about Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Anyone who says "I prefer to watch things in their original language," I ask them what language they watched that movie in. If they say Japanese, they are liars. Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust was done in English first, THEN Japanese second. Therefore, to be true to their statement about preferring the original language, they would actually have to like the dub of Bloodlust better.

Technically the Japanese is the dub. I think you mean "to be true to the statement about preferring the original language, they would actually have to like the English version better." Which I agree with. Though from the few minutes I did see I didn't like the English (my disc didn't have the JP dub on it)

[teigeki_calesa]

Well, I won't comment further, since most of the talk on this topic is on the dubs in the Western Hemisphere; and I can say that a good number of them don't match up to most fans' expectations, including myself.

What I'd like to bring out, like I said in my previous post, is my utter distress at the local "purists" here in the Philippines, who keep on lambasting the local (mostly Tagalog, which is what the majority speaks here; excluding the other regional languages) dubs, no matter how good they get---I can dare say that the good dubs here outnumber the bad. It would be fine if dubs aren't really their preference, but the big problem is, they nitpick(concentrating on the insignificant details and ignoring the main essence of the dub, which is the PERFORMANCE); they attack the poor dubbers and the dubbing staff PERSONALLY; and worse, most look down on those who support the local dubs and dubbing industry. I guess I have to blame the avalanche of net fansubs for the massive hatred for dubs here.

Interesting to note is that when the same dub haters were whining for Tagalog subs; imagine the chaos when they were told by informed individuals that subbing for broadcast by local stations (excluding foreign cable channels) is prohibited by law here in the Philippines, in accordance to the government's promotion of the local languages and the dubbing industry. Those dub haters did just the immature thing--shoot the messengers.

[beau99]

I guess you could call me a dub elitist, though I don't use that term myself.

I just prefer to watch the show in English and not the words at the bottom of the screen.

Yes there are bad dubs, and I don't watch them. However I don't watch the originals either.

I guess it's just that I could care less about edits or whatnot.

[Kaligraphic]

Wow, reruns again. I think I've seen this episode before.