Wearing Black for Christ

[Puritan]

Curious. I think you misunderstood part of the thrust of what I was saying, GhostontheNet. I was not trying to address the issue of how gothic dress directly relates to iconography or the role of Christ. It is interesting from an educational standpoint and I don't want to make it sound like this idea isn't important for why you wear the style you do. I am sure that this background provides depth and meaning for your witness, but that's beside the point. I was trying to address the issue of dress in general because I think that the particulars of this situation are somewhat unnecessary to the overall argument about whether it is appropriate for us to criticize another's dress based on percieved association with a specific group of people.

May I ask if you have anything particularly in mind that my Christian brothers and sisters might stumble in some way for gothic dress?

Certainly. Someone who was involved in a non-Christian gothic or pseudo-gothic scene that involved drug use, witchcraft, or the like might think that a Christian wearing gothic clothes is supporting these ideas, similarly to how former pagans might think Christians eating meat sacrificed to idols were supporting pagan beliefs. Also, children, teens, or young Christians who see or look up to a Christian dressed like this could also see this manner of dress as supporting the bad elements of gothic or pseudo-gothic culture depending on their experience with the person wearing gothic dress and their upbringing or experience. However, I am not trying to say that this type of thing is a certainty or a reason for people not to wear gothic dress, I simply wish to point out that everyone, no matter what they wear, should watch what they do and how it affects those around them. Christians are all at different points in their walk, and sometimes things which are not wrong can cause certain Christians to stumble becuase they are struggling with a related issue. Each of us should be cautious so that we do not cause others to stumble by our actions.

May I ask if you have any advice for what to do when others bring controversy to you, or how to make changes within a church on things that are in error without the all-too-typical infightings and schisms for every dispute

I find that focus on the core of the gospel helps immensely. For example, I am currently the housefellow of a Christian house on campus which brings together people from many different parts of the church and widely varying theological backgrounds. As you can imagine, the potential for religious debate is practically endless. However, we get along quite well, even in the midst of debate, because our focus is the core of the gospel and we are all committed to the gospel and to Christ. That's not to say any of us have necessarily changed our theological views, simply that we are willing to discuss our views politely and try to understand each other rather than forming divisions in the house. While there are issues that we will likely always disagree on, I find that simply being willing to discuss things in a logical and polite manner helps tremendously, and a willingness to understand the other person's position helps too. Also, being willing to not debate topics of interest because you know the debate will only cause trouble is an extremely important thing as well. My best friend in my house and I differ on a number of issues that we could argue about for years (most of the issues have been argued about for centuries), but we both focus on Christ and the gospel so we have a common ground that allows us to be good brothers in Christ. Life in community is all about being polite and willing to work through differences, and life in the Church is no different.

[USSRGirl]

:: Changes voice to the NON-harsh of many a seedy politician :: Better?

In anycase, I conclude that I still hold the position that labeling oneself as a "goth" is the same as labeling oneself as a "Christian." The meaning is still there whether you want to dance around it or not. As for the "uncalled for" Abercombie comment...most people know what the controversy is over Abercombie and Finch. If they're choosing the support the company, they're supporting the values (or lack there of) the company stands for. Their clothes really do not look like anything special that you couldn't find somewhere else (for half the price no less).

In the case of wearing black (which is completely different from being a goth or a punk), I see nothing wrong in the slightest. It's a COLOR. A mere reflection of the electromagnetic spectrum. It means no more or no less than any other color, unless you state the reason why you're wearing it. Dressing in black is not the same thing as being a goth or satanist or whatever. I for example like black because it makes it easier for me to lurk in the shadows...

[Doubleshadow]

I would be curious to know how our ages effect our ideas on this matter. I'm old enough that I know enough to not put too much stock in how people dress, and I am aware of how I appear to others when it comes to what my clothing says about me. The people I interact with at length on a daily basis know me well enough that the important aspects of who I am, my ideas, personality, beliefs, and behaviors, are the defining factor in how thye think of me, and it is the same way for me concerning them. Their choice of clothing does not tell me much about who they are anymore because I have a better source of information. Outside of those I don't interact with, I don't concern myself with them too much and I certainly do not pay much attention to their clothes and I am inclined to believe it is the same way with for them. However, in middle school and high school, it may be different. I cared even less about fashion, cliques, reputations, then I do now; but I know there are people who take those things very seriously when teenagers and even beyond those years. I wonder if some of our disagreement on the seriousness of this type of clothing stems from it being more important or less important to both ourselves and those around us.

[Joshua Christopher]

I agree with Doubleshadow. Unless we're like, 6 years old, our ages shouldn't matter at all. Once we become teenagers and learn not to care about society’s efforts to suck us into it's world of plastic dolls, it’s then we make our own choices of clothing and appearance. And if we choose to go goth, then that’s our choice, but we’re Christian, and unless we have skulls and blood all over us, we’re not setting off a bad example. And I think if we’re not setting off a bad example, it’s okay, ya know?

Yes, but like it or not, we are in society. Society deems certain words as "bad", even with other words that have the same meaning (think of another word for 'crap'). Do you use these words freely? I think the same applies here. The gothic "look" is often grouped in with a lot of negative things. It shouldn't be that way, but life isn't always fair.

[Debitt]

I wonder if location also has an effect on the opinions expressed here - I know California is a bit more liberal about things than other areas of the US.

I've never associated goth with the occult - I think some goths look creepy, but it's simply based on their clothes/piercings rather than the fact that they're goth. To me it's no more than a style of fashion that could possibly be associated with emo-screamo sort of music. *shrugs*

[holysoldier5000]

Just a side note... the first "Goths" were a people who occupied France in the 200-700 AD. They were known for pagan rituals of dressing in animal skins and animal skulls but none of their rituals actually involved wearing black. The Goths were eliminated in 739 AD by the Lombards who were Muslim invaders.

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language says:
"The combination Gothic romance represents a union of two of the major influences in the development of European culture, the Roman Empire and the Germanic tribes that invaded it. The Roman origins of romance must be sought in the etymology of that word, but we can see clearly that Gothic is related to the name Goth used for one of those invading Germanic tribes. The word Gothic, first recorded in 1611 in a reference to the language of the Goths, was extended in sense in several ways, meaning “Germanic,â€

[Mave]

A&F Brand topic: I respectfully disagree. Pls PM if interested in further discussion.

In the case of wearing black (which is completely different from being a goth or a punk), I see nothing wrong in the slightest. It's a COLOR. A mere reflection of the electromagnetic spectrum.

That I agree. I don't care if you're wearing black all the time.....Good griefy, I did that all the time back home and no one ever made a fuss out of it.

But if you're wearing super thick black mascara, dark lipstick and nail polish, carrying some radical hairdo, having unique body piercings, and wearing clothing with skulls imprints, you cannot expect me to give you the benefit of doubt that you're Christian at initial encounter. I'm sorry but that's just unreasonable.

I'm old enough that I know enough to not put too much stock in how people dress, and I am aware of how I appear to others when it comes to what my clothing says about me.

On the contrary, when I was in high school or college, I didn't care how I look. But now that I've gotten older and have started working in the corporate world, I have to place more stock on how people dress and what impressions I'm giving to other through my attire and fashion style. I would like to think that picking the right clothing for the right occasion reflects some level of maturity. However, do keep in mind, I'm mostly referring to having common sense in picking your attire more than following popular fashion trends.

[holysoldier5000]

Whether black or white
Just do what's right
In the sight
Of God almight
You'll be alright
Both day and night
If you don't fight
& Keep His will tight

[Doubleshadow]

On the contrary, when I was in high school or college, I didn't care how I look. But now that I've gotten older and have started working in the corporate world, I have to place more stock on how people dress and what impressions I'm giving to other through my attire and fashion style. I would like to think that picking the right clothing for the right occasion reflects some level of maturity. However, do keep in mind, I'm mostly referring to having common sense in picking your attire more than following popular fashion trends.

Let me try again. I had a hard time expressing my thoughts the first time. I am not a Goth, I am not trying to fit into any sub-culture/micro-culture. If it must be a particualr style it is closest to punk. I am just a person who wears a lot of black, and that is what HS5000 asked about right? Just wearing lots of black?

I care more about how a person acts and behaves than how they dress, so it doesn't bother me if they (or I) dress unusually, but that doesn't mean I don't try to make a certain impression. My rule for how I present myself and dress is, chains (I only own two) and chockers or not, to dress in a way that says I respect myself and take myself seriously and I expect others to do the same. This also prevents me from going overboard with my clothes because I have no desire to seem difficult, irritable, or troublesome. I am very particular about my hygiene and I keep my clothes in good condition, checking for stains and wrinkles. Because of how I chose to dress, I use light, bright colors for my make-up (except the lipstick which is a neutral and only for speeches and special occassions), and my eye-liner happens to be bright purple. I also have a normal hairstyle, and people like my hair so it can't be bizarre to them.
I take special pains to dress properly for ocassions, wearing a suit and carefully ironed dress shirt for professional presentations and speeches. I just happen to enjoy wearing black and the types of styles, embellishments, and jewlery that I do.
To my knowledge, this has no adverse effect on my witness for Christ. If I thought it did, I wouldn't dress this way. I usually get ragged on for praying or going to Bible study. People never mention my clothes.

[GhostontheNet]

[quote="holysoldier5000"]Just a side note... the first "Goths" were a people who occupied France in the 200-700 AD. They were known for pagan rituals of dressing in animal skins and animal skulls but none of their rituals actually involved wearing black. The Goths were eliminated in 739 AD by the Lombards who were Muslim invaders.

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language says:
"The combination Gothic romance represents a union of two of the major influences in the development of European culture, the Roman Empire and the Germanic tribes that invaded it. The Roman origins of romance must be sought in the etymology of that word, but we can see clearly that Gothic is related to the name Goth used for one of those invading Germanic tribes. The word Gothic, first recorded in 1611 in a reference to the language of the Goths, was extended in sense in several ways, meaning “] As I had mentioned, the term "gothic" was back-applied to that which was considered to be crude and barbaric (one loaded classical term, though when you get down to it the Greeks and Romans civilizations were also "barbaric"), evident in this case by a contempt for that which is medieval as opposed to the old so-called-classical age of the Greeks and Romans (indeed, the mere words as they have survived to us tell us this) indicated in your dictionary entry. The medeival cathedrals had a whole bunch of edges and some gargoyles too - crude to one who looks nostalgicly to the "classical" age (which had a lot of issues too) and all associated with it, and also pretty spooky at night. This was applied to novels that had the feeling of these cathedrals.

The modern "gothic" movement's title stems from the application of the term to post-punk/gothic (at this phase in the game a lot of debate goes towards which it counts as) groups like Joy Division which had a crude and haunting sound. It is true the old Germanic goths had nothing to do with wearing black, but considering black in the modern gothic movement began as a rejection of the disco fashion and attitude, it's beside the point. I really do like your poem though.

Shifting focus to everyone, music and genres of music especially are an efficient arm to disseminate points of view, and many subcultures form around them moreso than many other things, gothic clothing being no exception, which, in absence of socioeconomic "forces" like Hot Topic disseminating more of the clothing than other avenues disseminate the music, would declare publicly to the properly informed that I affiliate with and listen to gothic and darkwave music. A good direction of progression for this topic would be discussion of "visual identidy", the use of clothing as a codified affiliation with a group of people to enable being able to find each other. For example, Abercrombie's big mainstay has been being very consistently conformist, apealing to those who are very consistently conformist, and those who wear it are willing to pay higher prices to find each other. And, though I may be mistaken, Abercrombie is supposed to be popular among "preppies", that is, people who are highly motivated by what our materialistic (in every sense) society dubs "success", and who are taking various efforts at every step to achieve this. But if this success is interpreted as the aiding of megacorps in exploiting and dehumanizing everybody and everything they possibly can so as to get more money, calling this "success" may not be the brightest idea by a long shot by any criterion. The key question that must be asked is "Conformity to what for good or ill? Nonconformity to what for good or ill?"

[USSRGirl]

Well said Holysoldier. The other side of the coin is that you often get these erm...overly pious...Christians who think every person who wears all black for more than a day is satanic minion/goth. In such cases, a lot of decent people can be turned off from Christianity. The emphasis should be on the soul of the person...not their choice of color. To be that obssessed with color of clothing seems rather superstious than Christian...

Mave, PM me anytime if you want to continue the Abercombie debate since debating is not really allowed on CAA.

[IZ&Trigun4life]

I USED to dress in black clothes and stuff all the time, BUT unfortunately, my mother stoppped washing them..because she didn't like the look of it. Yes you say "wash your won clothes" but I dont know how and my mother likes to take advantage of that. so now every once in a while I'll put on some chains and punky outfit but I can't get out of the house if my ENTIRE outfit is black. I wish I could go back to wearing my old clothes...but I dont think thats gonna happen. Anyway Colors aren't evil, and I know theres alot of stereotypes, and unfortunatly.....i dont know one goth/punk who isn't a pagan or an athiest or involved in the homosexual lifestyle. It's really a shame, because I'd like to find some people who share the same interest as me AND share my beliefs. But because delaware is so small and libral, I don't think thats gonna happen. And there fore the sterotype still goes strong in the mind of my mother and my fellow peers.

[DrNic]

Wow, does the colour of ones clothing REALLY merit 11 pages of discussion? At the end of the day I'm not a goth. I'm just a christian who like wearing black. Amen to individuality!

[Nate]

I'm just a christian who like wearing black. Amen to individuality!

Yes, because as we all know, no one else in the world except you wears black. That's how we know you're original, right?

[DrNic]

Yes, because as we all know, no one else in the world except you wears black. That's how we know you're original, right?

'glares' You know what I mean. And anyway, I bet all you black wearing christians can't do THIS 'tries to handstand and kicks over a shelf'

[Sweet Mercury]

[quote="holysoldier5000"]There are lots of different styles and colors of clothes. Hardly anyone dresses the same now days. But yet there is one set of clothing that we as Christians are called to put on no matter what. Colossians 3:12-14 says, “as God's chosen people, holy and dearly lovedâ€

[GhostontheNet]

I USED to dress in black clothes and stuff all the time, BUT unfortunately, my mother stoppped washing them..because she didn't like the look of it. Yes you say "wash your won clothes" but I dont know how and my mother likes to take advantage of that. so now every once in a while I'll put on some chains and punky outfit but I can't get out of the house if my ENTIRE outfit is black. I wish I could go back to wearing my old clothes...but I dont think thats gonna happen. Anyway Colors aren't evil, and I know theres alot of stereotypes, and unfortunatly.....i dont know one goth/punk who isn't a pagan or an athiest or involved in the homosexual lifestyle. It's really a shame, because I'd like to find some people who share the same interest as me AND share my beliefs. But because delaware is so small and libral, I don't think thats gonna happen. And there fore the sterotype still goes strong in the mind of my mother and my fellow peers.

Dear Trigun:

1. Insert load of clothing into the washer, try to avoid washing white and colored clothing articles of clothing/towels/etc together because dyes can bleed over into the whites. Beware of washing clothing with the instructions "Dry Clean Only" on those little tags because it may do things like shrink. I would advise doing some of your family member's laundry as well both to add bulk to the load and to earn trust and respect, a valuable commodity if one is behaving a bit oddly. Try to keep the weight evenly spread in the machine so that it doesn't get off balance while spinning.
2. Get out the laundry detergent and unscrew the cap, and take a look at the inside of the cap. You should see two notches (although if you see three it's no big deal, laundry isn't building a piano). Fill the cap full of detergent to two notches full, and equally spread the cap that is full of detergent over the load.
3. I cannot know the exact configuration of your particular washing machine, but you should set it to the "warm" setting (for colors) and "hot" (for whites) and set the timer (regular wash or permanent press, on ordinary laundry it doesn't ordinarily matter) to max setting, on mine it's the number 12 or something. If the control for the timer is round kind of like a doorknob, you should be able to activate it by giving the knob a pull.
4. No point in languishing through the wait just sitting there once the water comes rushing in (the door is closed now, isn't it), go do something you want to do or do some homework or whatever. I find wathing an episode of some Anime or listening to music a good passtime while waiting.
5. When the machine stops making the spinning noises, the load is washed. Move the soggily clean laundry into the dryer.
6. Add an antistatic dryer sheet to the dryer, which at my house look like horribly painful transluscent tissues.
7. Set the dryer to 30-50 minutes, the more time spent of course, the drier the clothes. My mother chimes in that the "door knob pulling" trick for activating washers is not generally found in dryers, which more often have a "start" button to push. Pick up clothing from the dryer once it's done, although letting the clothing sit in the dryer doesn't really do any harm.

I suppose these instructions may make it seem like laundry is really complex, it's not. As with anything which is simple to do, giving directions to doing it can be more complex sounding than it really is, you might think of me writing instructions for How to Post in this Thread (Register, check email for confirmation, go to tab at top and click forums, etc). Colors will not really compromise the goth, and will serve to make the black more beautiful. Get yourself some jeweltone color or grey (even white if accented by black) articles of clothing and wear those too alongside the black. Sadly, the habit of so much of the Church has been to tell the scapegoats and prodigal sons to go to hell, and too many end up taking up that offer. Inevitably people flow to the places where they are wanted if they have the choice, and the reason for the high number of homosexual goths is because the gothic community had a long history of accepting gays within it's ranks. All too often much of the Church forgets "gentleness" in it's wardrobe in dealing with sin, sadly rendering the underlying meaning of reconciliation in her face of forgiveness a much paler and uglier shade than would be natural. I'm sad to say sociological factors may stand against you finding anybody of the faith if you don't take the initiative yourself. The 'Net is vast, and could well come to your aid if you use it resourcefully.

P.S. I would reccomend Sweet Mercury consider wearing this Black Combat Anorak Parka http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BMEJY0/qid=1146725749/sr=8-6/ref=sr_1_6/002-7568871-6045616?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=1036592 , which from past experience is rather functional.

[Radical Dreamer]

Dear Trigun:

1. Insert load of clothing into the washer, try to avoid washing white and colored clothing articles of clothing/towels/etc together because dyes can bleed over into the whites. Beware of washing clothing with the instructions "Dry Clean Only" on those little tags because it may do things like shrink. I would advise doing some of your family member's laundry as well both to add bulk to the load and to earn trust and respect, a valuable commodity if one is behaving a bit oddly. Try to keep the weight evenly spread in the machine so that it doesn't get off balance while spinning.
2. Get out the laundry detergent and unscrew the cap, and take a look at the inside of the cap. You should see two notches (although if you see three it's no big deal, laundry isn't building a piano). Fill the cap full of detergent to two notches full, and equally spread the cap that is full of detergent over the load.
3. I cannot know the exact configuration of your particular washing machine, but you should set it to the "warm" setting (for colors) and "hot" (for whites) and set the timer (regular wash or permanent press, on ordinary laundry it doesn't ordinarily matter) to max setting, on mine it's the number 12 or something. If the control for the timer is round kind of like a doorknob, you should be able to activate it by giving the knob a pull.
4. No point in languishing through the wait just sitting there once the water comes rushing in (the door is closed now, isn't it), go do something you want to do or do some homework or whatever. I find wathing an episode of some Anime or listening to music a good passtime while waiting.
5. When the machine stops making the spinning noises, the load is washed. Move the soggily clean laundry into the dryer.
6. Add an antistatic dryer sheet to the dryer, which at my house look like horribly painful transluscent tissues.
7. Set the dryer to 30-50 minutes, the more time spent of course, the drier the clothes. My mother chimes in that the "door knob pulling" trick for activating washers is not generally found in dryers, which more often have a "start" button to push. Pick up clothing from the dryer once it's done, although letting the clothing sit in the dryer doesn't really do any harm.

That was great; lovely advice. But, a little extra piece of advice--sometimes, washing your clothes on warm or hot can increase the risk of extra shrinkage once you put it in the dryer. Also, I wouldn't suggest drying clothes made of 100% cotton...They'll shrink pretty easily, too. XD *lets a lot of her clothes hang to dry, to reduce the risk of ruining them (believe me, it happens far too often. XD)*

But um, yeah, good luck with that, Zamp!

[Sweet Mercury]

P.S. I would reccomend Sweet Mercury consider wearing this Black Combat Anorak Parka http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BMEJY0/qid=1146725749/sr=8-6/ref=sr_1_6/002-7568871-6045616?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=1036592 , which from past experience is rather functional.

Hmm, I'll check it out. Where could I find that in a store to try it on?




*Hopes its not in Hollister...*

[GhostontheNet]

Hmm, I'll check it out. Where could I find that in a store to try it on?

*Hopes its not in Hollister...*

I dunno, a military surplus shop? The material it's made out if is that pretty tough fabric you see used in military clothing, though this is of course black instead of camoflauge, allowing it to be discreet in a civilian setting (a certain somewhat irritable soviet dictator may want to take note of this too). The largeness of both the upper and lower pockets were very useful indeed before the days I switched to my also very useful London Fog green overcoat/trenchcoat.

[Hitokiri]

According to people I am goth. I personally could care less. However, the shirts I choose to wear and pants I choose to wear do reflect the gothic style so I guess, in some ways, I try to dress it even though I enjoy the shirts. Basically they are just metal band shirts with blood-dripping skulls and stuff. Or black pants with a black shirt with a black long-tshirt underneath.

I remember back in the day when I tried ti look and dress goth. I failed miserably. The only thing I find that people do find it hard to approach you. Though it would help if I wasn't exactly anti-social 90% of the time.

As for Christian Goths, I find that term - contradictory. I just dislike it when you have kids calling themselves "church punks" or "gospel gangstas". Ok, I get you're both a "punk" and a Christian but must you make it sound more stupid by trying to segregate yourself from the mainstream culture? I just don't get that.

[GhostontheNet]

As for Christian Goths, I find that term - contradictory. I just dislike it when you have kids calling themselves "church punks" or "gospel gangstas". Ok, I get you're both a "punk" and a Christian but must you make it sound more stupid by trying to segregate yourself from the mainstream culture? I just don't get that.

Within ordinary living I will simply say "yes" if somebody actually asks "Are you gothic", or "yes" to "Are you a Christian?" For dialogues like this the term Christian goths is useful as opposed to pagan goths, atheist goths, etc. Remember, the common perception of "Christian" is Mr. Suit and Tie followed by Mrs. Pastel Blouse and Skirt, which is why these are commonly known as "Your Sunday best" clothing. In affiliating with multiple subcultures at once, one must attempt to strike a balance with the values of both cultures so as to not be percieved as a mere infiltrator. It will not do for Mr. Suit or Mrs. Pastel to go and start playing punk music that is not really punk music or rap music that is not really rap music. So too, left as is Mr. Suit and Mrs. Pastel may in fact consider Mr. Gangsta and Mr. Plaidspikes to be parasites to be expunged from within their oh-so-very uncompromised community. Therefore, if Mr. Gangsta and Mr. Plaidspikes wishes to have any affiliation with the community dominated by Mr. Suit and Mrs. Pastel, some form of explanation for transgressing the Holy Code of Piano-Hymns, Pastels, and Suits is in order. Indeed, we have heard even the music with relentlessly Piano-Hymn sounding lyrics set to a different musical base is quite obviously THE MUSIC OF THE DEVIL! On the flip-side, in the effort to sound convincingly holy enough even to the skeptical Mr. Suit and Mrs. Pastel they may lose the essential components of their art. For example, while the "Christian satire" group Apologetix may be quite loaded in Biblically based lyrics, reading them never once made me laugh.

I will complain that it isn't just goths that are interested in having a darker look, and that while Heavy Metal groups with grotesque skulls on T-shirts may bring to mind a grotesque sound, it has nothing to do with Gothic rock, Darkwave, Electrogoth, etc., and hence by definition is not gothic.

[akakaze]

Hey Ghost, very,.. perceptive. I like black, mostly because I grew up in scouts playing capture the flag in the dark. The best players wore black and I still like it.

[GhostontheNet]

Hey Ghost, very,.. perceptive. I like black, mostly because I grew up in scouts playing capture the flag in the dark. The best players wore black and I still like it.

I will admit that back in the day combining a black Combat Anorak Parka, black hat (you've seen it), and black pants gave me a serious advantage at lazer tag (that and my creeping subtlety and muffled footsteps, although more agressive people had more hits given and received). I don't really get offended easily, if you have something to say to me, feel free to send me a P.M. I apologize for singling out Apologetix, though people like J.P. Holding of http://www.tektonics.org or alternately his http://www.tektoonics.com have a much better grip on Christian satire (and apologetics for that matter).

[Vash is a plant]

If someone looks one way but acts contradictory to how people with that look normally act, someone's bound to ask why; now there's an opportunity to witness. The goths at my old school that I hung out with... well... there were only a few Christians amongst us. One of my non-Goth friends said to me one day, "I'm really impressed that even though you hang out with all the goth kids, you're still a Christian." Mind you, he himself is agnostic.
No matter what you wear, you'll be put in some label. My label happens to be one not associated with Christianity, but, because I am a Christian and therefore go against the popular views of my "group," people take notice and see there's something different.

[DrNic]

Lol, I got called a Satan Worshipper yesterday. Little kids are so annoying :S Anyway, we got some teaching on Satan and stuff at my church recently and God really spoke to me on the subject so I'm settled with what I wear - Black clothing, street/goth wear as long as their aren't oozing skull or gothic symbols on them...and no make up, I've gotten rid of my eyeliner <<...>>...

[GhostontheNet]

Lol, I got called a Satan Worshipper yesterday. Little kids are so annoying :S Anyway, we got some teaching on Satan and stuff at my church recently and God really spoke to me on the subject so I'm settled with what I wear - Black clothing, street/goth wear as long as their aren't oozing skull or gothic symbols on them...and no make up, I've gotten rid of my eyeliner <<...>>...

Umm, I hope it wasn't a case of my two attatched cartoons. I say, get yourself a nice gothic cross, Alchemy Gothic produces a lot of 'em at any given moment, and you might want to take a look or alternately browse through http://jewelry.search.ebay.com/gothic-cross_Necklaces-Pendants_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR8QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ10994 . I mean, I could understand if you didn't want to wear an ankh, pentagram, maybe even a skull necklace, but a combined afirmation of faith and gothicness would probably be a plus.

[DrNic]

I mean, I could understand if you didn't want to wear an ankh, pentagram, maybe even a skull necklace, but a combined afirmation of faith and gothicness would probably be a plus.

Well yeah, I was just implying pentagrams and stuff, but cheers for the link