Does the bible say anything against...

[Stephen]

I want to be shot out of a cannon. Hunter S. Thompson style. Burn me down, load me up, and fire me off in a mortar shell during a fireworks show. Hooha.

[glitch1501]

I want to be shot out of a cannon. Hunter S. Thompson style. Burn me down, load me up, and fire me off in a mortar shell during a fireworks show. Hooha.

i wonder what kind of firework you would be...

[Mithrandir]

Or stuffed. Whatever's cheaper.

Ah. A Dilbert reference.



There are many places in the world where cremation is literally the only option. With a low water table, buarial is likely to contribute to the spreading of disease.

[Puritan]

I just wish people wouldn't think of the body after they were dead as if it were them...

I agree completely (part of the reason I am registered as an organ donor on my driver's license). My concern after I die will be completely different, and I doubt I will care about what happens to my body. Besides, after I die I will be raised with new, incorruptible body, so why should I be concerned what it done with this body after I die? I want my family to do whatever is best for them, both in the grieving process and monetarily, so I really don't have any desires for what is done with my body (although I would prefer not to be stuffed...).

[Jon Clement]

Well, as for these loopholes, Christ NEVER said anything about romance or having children in heaven. Christ said that the people of THIS age marry and are given in marriage, but in the ressurection, they won't, etc. Now, THIS AGE is the age when man is allowed to try his own government and value systems and all. And at the beggining of THIS AGE, if you look at Genises 2:23-24, it appears that ADAM was the one who invented marriage, not God... Now listen to this, and this is VITAL: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness : And let them have dominion voer the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man is his own image, in the image of God created he him ; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it : and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed ; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat : and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." -Gen 1:26-31. Now, look at that. Before there was ANY kind of marriage invented, God TOLD people to reproduce. Didn't say anything about having to get married! And God saw that it was VERY GOOD. People often THINK that reproduction is a curse, and an impurity. Well, that isn't what it is AT ALL. It doesn't say God CURSED them, it says he BLESSED them. (And another reason I've decided not to go mormon is because they think that because Adam and Eve were immortal, they couldn't procreate, which the bible says NOTHING about... )And once more, I state that Christ said NOTHING about having children or being in love. Besides, THIS certainly isn't the best time to be raising kids. If everything would be perfect at christs return, THAT would be a good time to raise kids. God COULD have just made billions of people all at once, but he didn't, did he? God made man in his image, He told man to fall in love and have kids. Men were no different from God. They were made in his image. When it says they were made in his image, I believe it and I don't see why it should mean anything else.

[ChristianKitsune]

When The Bible Says we were mad in His image, it means that we have the capilitly to love, to feel and have emotions, we have a spirit..and so on and so forth. We are higher than the animals. It's ment on a spiritual level not necassarily physical (God is Omnipotent, meaning he is everywhere, we don't have that ability).

Men are so different from God it's not even funny. We aren't even in the same universe as God. and there is no way that we can compare ourselves to his Greatness. We aren't perfect, like God. Never will be until we die and get our new bodies. We are only Perfect through Jesus.

When God said to Reproduce, he meant on Earth. He gave us all desires to be loved and to love others. But as heavenly beings, when we die, our earthly love won't be needed. All our love will go towards Him.

THat was kinda the simple answer....but there won't be families in heaven, I am sorry, but that's the truth. Sometimes love for a spouse and or children is a distraction from loving God.

EDIT: When I die, I don't care if I am cremated or not, as long as my shell is treated well.. I will be partying too much to care! WOOT!

[Kaligraphic]

The book of Miscellanicus, chapter 7, starting at verse 3, states: "And the people took the man, and put him in the fire, and the son of the prophet swatteth him upside the head and said 'Lo, thou must not burn the living,' and the people said to the son of the prophet, 'but he is very ill, and shalt be stone dead in a moment,' and the son of the prophet did say, 'We still can't burn him, for it doth be against regulations.'"

Thus cremation should not be physically practised on the living. That said:

I want to be shot out of a cannon. Hunter S. Thompson style. Burn me down, load me up, and fire me off in a mortar shell during a fireworks show. Hooha.

Ark wins the thread by having more awesome plans than the rest of us.

[ZiP]

Ok Jon, if what you're saying is true, and men were no different from God, why couldn't Adam make Eve himself?

It's one thing to be one someones image, it's another thing to be exactly the same as someone. I think it's safe to assume you can't explain why Adam didn't make Eve himself, except to say he couldn't. We are after God's likeness, we have souls, we can love, but that doesn't mean that we were God's ourselves before sin.

The book of Miscellanicus, chapter 7, starting at verse 3, states: "And the people took the man, and put him in the fire, and the son of the prophet swatteth him upside the head and said 'Lo, thou must not burn the living,' and the people said to the son of the prophet, 'but he is very ill, and shalt be stone dead in a moment,' and the son of the prophet did say, 'We still can't burn him, for it doth be against regulations.'"

Thus cremation should not be physically practised on the living.

.... Are you being sarcastic? Sorry, I can't really tell.

[Jon Clement]

I still see no scriptural evidence...

[Kaligraphic]

.... Are you being sarcastic? Sorry, I can't really tell.

I'm making a strained reference to a scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The Bible doesn't really talk about cremation, and I don't think it really matters one way or the other to God, unless He gives you specific instructions.

[Syreth]

If man was no different from God, you would not only have Biblical issues, but also moral and philosophical issues. For one, God is incabable of approving evil or lying (Hebrews 6:18; James 1:13). Adam is fully capable of both. He ate of the tree and sinned. God cannot sin.

I would recommend taking issues like this to a Christian (not a Mormon) pastor or mentor who knows the Bible well. As far as I understand, loopholes like this are better discussed in person or elsewhere, not only because communication is easier, but because these issues can lead to debates that are not desirable here.

[Doubleshadow]

I think Syreth has good advice. If this still bothers you, go to a knowledgeable and trustworthy pastor or such and ask them about cremation.
For my part, I'm a tissue donor. Organs, skin, corneas, spine, anything and everything that can be used by another person or is needed for study. There won't be enough left of me to burry in a Good n' Plenty box.

[Jon Clement]

Um, I meant for no romance in heaven...

[Puritan]

There are many things involved in marriage and this issue, but I will avoid going into it here to avoid theological controversy. However, I've been reading a great deal about this topic in the past semester (I've been reading through a series of talks Pope John Paul gave on the subject of the human body including marriage) and I would be happy to discuss the origin of marriage and the reasons why it is believed marriage lasts only in this lifetime via PM if you wish.

[Jon Clement]

There are many things involved in marriage and this issue, but I will avoid going into it here to avoid theological controversy. However, I've been reading a great deal about this topic in the past semester (I've been reading through a series of talks Pope John Paul gave on the subject of the human body including marriage) and I would be happy to discuss the origin of marriage and the reasons why it is believed marriage lasts only in this lifetime via PM if you wish.

Marriage and romance are 2 completly different entities. The bible says love never ends, so I'll believe it when it says that...

[Maledicte]

I thought that the reasoning behind Christians not agreeing with cremation is that because in the Bible it says that the bodies of the dead shall arise, and the assumption was that the body must remain intact after death.

However, we all know that the body decomposes anyway, the furthest from this being Egyptian mummies.

I'm probably going to donate my leftovers to medicine.

[Puritan]

True love never ends, but your connection of love to romance (which involves physical, emotional, and spiritual threads) is tenuous. Romance should involve love, but the two are not identical. You can love someone without romance, and it is possible to romance someone without love (which is why some people's marriages fall apart, as romance is a poor substitute for true love). Just because love never ends does not mean that romance will never end. Romance is heavily connected to our current bodies which will be transformed at the resurrection, and we have little indication what these bodies will be like beyond knowing the few things scripture says about them.

Whether marriage will last beyond this life is a subject of some debate, admitted, but why worry about it? The core important thing in marriage is to love the person you are married to (In fact in Ephesians 5 men are called to love their wives as Christ loved the Church). That love will, in my opinion, not disappear in the afterlife as the love of a Christian married couple is based upon and centered around God. What the marriage is may change, but the core important thing in marriage will not. Romance, children, being together, all of these things are important to marriage, but a godly marriage is centered around a love for God which manifests itself as love for your husband or wife. If the rest dissapear due to old age or disease, sterility, or death, the marriage does not dissolve. The love between the husband and wife, founded on a love for God, continues, and that is the core of what marriage is.

[Jon Clement]

True love never ends, but your connection of love to romance (which involves physical, emotional, and spiritual threads) is tenuous. Romance should involve love, but the two are not identical. You can love someone without romance, and it is possible to romance someone without love (which is why some people's marriages fall apart, as romance is a poor substitute for true love). Just because love never ends does not mean that romance will never end. Romance is heavily connected to our current bodies which will be transformed at the resurrection, and we have little indication what these bodies will be like beyond knowing the few things scripture says about them.

Whether marriage will last beyond this life is a subject of some debate, admitted, but why worry about it? The core important thing in marriage is to love the person you are married to (In fact in Ephesians 5 men are called to love their wives as Christ loved the Church). That love will, in my opinion, not disappear in the afterlife as the love of a Christian married couple is based upon and centered around God. What the marriage is may change, but the core important thing in marriage will not. Romance, children, being together, all of these things are important to marriage, but a godly marriage is centered around a love for God which manifests itself as love for your husband or wife. If the rest dissapear due to old age or disease, sterility, or death, the marriage does not dissolve. The love between the husband and wife, founded on a love for God, continues, and that is the core of what marriage is.

Whatever. I still believe that it exists. God would have made earth like that in the first place. I don't believe that God picks and chooses who have a wife and/or kids. God WILL give everybody a chance to have one and nothing will make me change my mind about that...

[ZiP]

Marriage and romance are 2 completly different entities. The bible says love never ends, so I'll believe it when it says that...

Do you think you'll love your wife any less when she's in heaven? In my opinion, you place way too much on romance, Jon.

When you get married, the romance will be great, but by the time you grow old with your wife, your marriage won't be nearly as romantic. Romance is something that doesn't last, no matter how much you want it too. It's not that you stop having those feelings, it's just that life happens, and you find that marriage is a lot more than romance, and you eventually find you can't support marriage with romance. It has to be done with love.

Love always lasts, and you won't love your wife any less in heaven then on earth, but it will be a perfect love. I know it seems hard to believe, but it will be a better love, Jon. A love where you don't screw up, a love where you don't get hurt... Maybe not romance, but still LOVE. Never forget what love is.

marty

[Debitt]

I can't emphasize what ZiP and Puritan have said enough, Jon. You are placing too much stock in an expression of love, and not the love itself. Marriage and romance come with love - they do not define love, but through them people can express their love for one another.

You say you want marriage in heaven - do you REALLY want marriage? Do you want the rings, the financial benefits, and the papers that say you're married in Heaven? Because aside from love, that is what legal marriage essentially entails. What remains when you take all those away is just love, and a love blessed by God will exist and bring you and your wife joy REGARDLESS of rings or papers or money in the bank. It's the exact same thing with romance - moonlight walks, candle light dinners, whatever romance may means to you, it's an expression of a bond and it doesn't matter where you are, Heaven or earth, because a pure, godly love between a man and a woman transcends location.

If you say you want marriage and romance whilst acting offended when others tell you that these things might not last, then it really does sound like all you want is a nice dinner and a ring around your finger.

[Jon Clement]

I can't emphasize what ZiP and Puritan have said enough, Jon. You are placing too much stock in an expression of love, and not the love itself. Marriage and romance come with love - they do not define love, but through them people can express their love for one another.

You say you want marriage in heaven - do you REALLY want marriage? Do you want the rings, the financial benefits, and the papers that say you're married in Heaven? Because aside from love, that is what legal marriage essentially entails. What remains when you take all those away is just love, and a love blessed by God will exist and bring you and your wife joy REGARDLESS of rings or papers or money in the bank. It's the exact same thing with romance - moonlight walks, candle light dinners, whatever romance may means to you, it's an expression of a bond and it doesn't matter where you are, Heaven or earth, because a pure, godly love between a man and a woman transcends location.

If you say you want marriage and romance whilst acting offended when others tell you that these things might not last, then it really does sound like all you want is a nice dinner and a ring around your finger.

Perhaps the proper word for me to use is "Romantic love". I know people grow old and I know that marriage can't be based on romance. I'm well aware of that. But aging happens so slowly, I don't think I'll notice her get old. AND in heaven, people are young again (or so I think). I KNOW that love is what it takes to make a good marriage. I want love. I'm DYING for love. ROMANTIC love, though. But love, none the less, where we truly care for eachother and love eachother. I want to be loved by a woman and hold her in my arms...

But I also want to have children with her... to truly be one...

But now you're starting to explain exactly what's going through my mind. I realyl could care less about marriage. Like I said, I believe that Adam invented marriage, and if God were to say that people didn't need to get married to have sex (Which, I DO personally believe he's going to say when the world is perfected. Please avoid debating about this. This isn't the current topic at hand) Frankly, I don't care about marriage one bit. I just want love and affection... Infact, I'm dying to be touched. Now, don't get wrong, not by ANY person, but by a woman who truly loves me. What I want is to be able to hug and hold and kiss a woman for all eternity. THAT'S the one thing I truly want...

In summarry, I DO want love... Very badly...

[Mr. SmartyPants]

In summarry, I DO want love... Very badly...

Jon Clements, who doesn't? Heck even like.... UC Pseudynom... the most serious and dry person here (not to make in fun of you. You just put on that tone, and you are awesome ) wants love. Heck we pretty much need love.

But there is a time for human love. But you want love? There is love right here. It's called God. And sure he doesn't hug you or touch you. He can't kiss you, he can't play with your hair. But he did something.. much much more. And much greater. The greatest thing in the world.



He died for you.

[Jon Clement]

Jon Clements, who doesn't? Heck even like.... UC Pseudynom... the most serious and dry person here (not to make in fun of you. You just put on that tone, and you are awesome ) wants love. Heck we pretty much need love.

But there is a time for human love. But you want love? There is love right here. It's called God. And sure he doesn't hug you or touch you. He can't kiss you, he can't play with your hair. But he did something.. much much more. And much greater. The greatest thing in the world.



He died for you.

Yes, John 3:16... And I appriciate that... But still, that doesn't change the fact that I want affection...

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Yes, John 3:16... And I appriciate that... But still, that doesn't change the fact that I want affection...

Are you searching? Trust me. Searching will get you nowhere. How about stop looking for that perfect person. And make yourself a better and more faithful person. So that when God gives you that perfect person, (im using the word "perfect" loosely) you will know. And you will be ready.

[Debitt]

[...]and if God were to say that people didn't need to get married to have sex[...]

While I have no intention of debating, as per your request, I do believe you'd read my post wrong, which is partially my fault as I didn't articulate it as best as I could have:

But I am not trying to say that marriage doesn't matter - earthly marriage is a wonderful blessing from God, but if it's not there in Heaven, the love will still be.

Which once more brings me back to the issue of love and romance. Hugging, holding, kissing your wife is all well and good, however WHY do you want this - for the feeling of love that it expresses to her. In the end, it all boils down to love - you'll have an eternal supply of it in Heaven, so why fret about not having kisses?

[Jon Clement]

Are you searching? Trust me. Searching will get you nowhere. How about stop looking for that perfect person. And make yourself a better and more faithful person. So that when God gives you that perfect person, (im using the word "perfect" loosely) you will know. And you will be ready.

No, there are women who are perfect in my eyes... Infact, I know one... I tried to meet her in real life, she she thought it wouldn't be a good idea.

But no, I'm not exactly searching. I try once in a while, but I mostly don't...

[ZiP]

You want romance... Romance with love... the two are totally different, and they always will be. I know how strong the desire is to be romanticly linked with someone (speaking as one with experience Jon, I'm not just theorizing), but you put too much into it Jon. No matter how much you say you want love, you seem to insist that romance come with it, and if there isn't romance, it isn't good enough for you. Despite everything you're saying about how you want love, that's the message I'm seeing.


I won't argue with you about the issue of sex outside marriage, but I will give you just one piece of scriptural evidence proving the wickedness of fornication... You don't have to respond to it, I don't expect you to, it's just here if you want to read it. This is the word Jon, God's word, you can't bend it to your will.

[quote=" 1 Cr 6:18"]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body]

I would recommend a mod close this thread, it looks like it my turn into something bad.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

No, there are women who are perfect in my eyes... Infact, I know one... I tried to meet her in real life, she she thought it wouldn't be a good idea.

But no, I'm not exactly searching. I try once in a while, but I mostly don't...

There is no such thing as a pefect mate. If a woman is perfect to you. (I was using the term "perfect" back then figuratively) Then you are being naive. You must open your eyes. Because every person is flawed.

The person I love dearest is flawed. I'll tell ya that (yes I'm single)

[Jon Clement]

While I have no intention of debating, as per your request, I do believe you'd read my post wrong, which is partially my fault as I didn't articulate it as best as I could have:

But I am not trying to say that marriage doesn't matter - earthly marriage is a wonderful blessing from God, but if it's not there in Heaven, the love will still be.

Which once more brings me back to the issue of love and romance. Hugging, holding, kissing your wife is all well and good, however WHY do you want this - for the feeling of love that it expresses to her. In the end, it all boils down to love - you'll have an eternal supply of it in Heaven, so why fret about not having kisses?

It's hard to explain... You want this too, but it's extremly hard to explain... But I'll give it a shot... I just want to feel that closeness... That warmth and hug her and feel her soft skin... That's about the best I can explain...

Even having her put her hands on my bare chest would be so wonderful...

You want romance... Romance with love... the two are totally different, and they always will be. I know how strong the desire is to be romanticly linked with someone (speaking as one with experience Jon, I'm not just theorizing), but you put too much into it Jon. No matter how much you say you want love, you seem to insist that romance come with it, and if there isn't romance, it isn't good enough for you. Despite everything you're saying about how you want love, that's the message I'm seeing.


I won't argue with you about the issue of sex outside marriage, but I will give you just one piece of scriptural evidence proving the wickedness of fornication...


I would recommend a mod close this thread, it looks like it my turn into something bad.

I know what it seems like, and yes, I do really want it. I really want to be able to do it for all eternity... Like I said, I just want to feel her soft skin against my own...

[Rogie]

Okay, I do believe that this thread is way off-topic and we're delving into territory that needs to be taken to PM.

Jon, I would strongly suggest that if you wish to make any thread like this or the other recent one you began, then you need to PM me or another mod before doing so.