Went to the baptist church for a change today...

[Puritan]

I can understand the desire to have children. I love kids and I really look forward to having children someday, and I have also worried that I might never have children. I'm 23 and I've never even had a girlfriend, and when many people your age are marrying or dating and you want to but haven't ever because nothing seems to work out, it becomes pretty easy to worry. It bothers me that I might never be able to raise a family, because I really want to. But I take solace in the fact that we don't know what God has in store for us. We may never have the chance to have children, but I know that what God has planned is better than I could ever imagine. I may be denied the joy of raising a family and that idea hurts, but I trust in an almighty, wise, and loving God and I trust that He wants what is best for me.

[Jon Clement]

I can see where your coming from Jon. I have often thought to myself, "What will happen if Jesus returns before I have a girlfriend, get married and have kids?" But then I remember that in the scheme of things it doesn't matter. We're going to live with Jesus our Creator and Redeemer forever! Now that is amazing. Everything else pales in comparison.

No offence, but I can't really see why it would be THAT great...

[meboeck]

But it just makes me sick to think that people who die before they get children of their own never ever get children ever... It makes me a trembling wreck... I get so insane over it, I actually was laughing over litterally "cutting the mustard"... And I could hear the insanity in my laugh...

Well, just thinking about it all the time apparently isn't doing you any good. Trust me, any time you start obsessing over a certain thought, it just starts taking over everything. First of all, you should pray about it. Don't pray that you will have a family in heaven because that will just get you thinking even more about it. Instead, pray that you will have peace about your future in heaven and pray that you will be able to overcome this thought obsession. You won't be able to find answers until you can step back and calmly try to look at it objectively. If you are obsessed with thoughts, it is impossible to stay calm about them and especially impossible to look at them objectively. You just get wrapped up in thinking the same thought over and over again until that's all you can think about. Maybe you should post something about this in the prayer forum too so other people can pray for you as well. As someone who has gotten caught up in a thought obsession, I will be praying for you. Also, if you need to talk, I am just a pm away.

[Jon Clement]

...AUGH!!! IT BEGINS!!! Somebody bash my brains out so I can get it over with...

[meboeck]

Listen, I'm not saying your thoughts are wrong, I'm just saying you're getting obsessed with one thought, and that's not healthy. Please do not take this as me trying to bash you or be mean to you in any way. I just know from experience that having you life controled by a single recurring thought is no fun.

[Debitt]

Jon, please do not take this post the wrong way -

I know what it's like to feel down, doubtful about your faith, uncertain, burnt out, altogether depressive. I know it's tough and right now it might look like you won't see the light at the end of the tunnel. And the way things sound, it seems as though you want to see that light, but are rejecting any help that is offered to you.

But if you're going to be that way, unfortunately you're going to remain in a funk for a long time. Before you can start feeling better, before you can get any real help, you have to WANT to feel better and WANT to be helped - and judging by your tone, you don't seem to want either of these things right now.

So my best advice to you is to stop and take a step back - you won't be able to find the answers to any of the questions you are posing until you manage to clear your head and sort things out. I guarantee things will look brighter and make much more sense after you've done that.

[Jon Clement]

Here it goes... It competly consumes me...

[Debitt]

Again, please do not interpret this badly, but that is the exact sort of behavior I'm talking about. I know it well because I had moments where I behaved in exactly the same manner.

You ask for help or advice in order to get pity; you try to draw it out when you get it, and act hurt when you don't. And I promise, no matter how much you may think it's helping, it isn't going to get you anywhere. Eventually you'll have to face this fact - I'm not asking you to do it now, or tomorrow, or even next week, but eventually you'll have to realize that this is what's going on, or you'll get yourself stuck in a very vicious cycle.

[Jon Clement]

[quote="Kokoro Daisuke"]Again, please do not interpret this badly, but that is the exact sort of behavior I'm talking about. I know it well because I had moments where I behaved in exactly the same manner.

You ask for help or advice in order to get pity]

Ya, I know...

I'm feeling better now... But I still have the faith that I'll have my own family...

[Jon Clement]

You know, as painful as this experience is, I think it's for my own good... I need it to learn and grow... I still havn't matured fully yet...

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

True, but growing as a person and as a Christian is a life long journey.

[Maledicte]

Hey man, don't go looking for girls too soon. They won't make your life, particularly not at this stage. More likely they'll suck it right out of you.

I feel qualified to make that statement.

Consider this: When you are fully capable of finding a helpmeet, marrying and raising a family, God will provide the opportunity. Begging for it in advance is the equivalent of a six-year-old wanting to drive the family SUV on vacation.

[Mangafanatic]

Begging for it in advance is the equivalent of a six-year-old wanting to drive the family SUV on vacation.

Wow. . .

May I have your permission to tattoo that on my forehead?

I'm kidding about the tattoo part, but I agree entirely with you. Nice phrasing there, ST2M!

[Dante]

I am really glad to hear that you enjoyed going to a Baptist Church today, for more reasons than one, I might add. While I don't wish to be rude, there are probably several reasons that you keep feeling depressed going to a Mormon church. Prime one being that Mormons are not Christian. Besides denouncing the doctrine of the Trinity, they deny that the Bible is the only authoritative and infallible Word of God and they believe that, through the proper rituals and a pious life, a human can become a god, just like God himself, only less advanced than Him (but progressing to His state eventually). It sounds strange, but I assure you that is what they teach. While the LDS church is full of family values and is very friendly (as well as very willing to help you find someone to marry, eventually), they are not Christian, insist as they might that they are. The Baptist church, while not necessarily the best dating environment, is a far better place spiritually.

I don't want to make this into a religious debate, but I would like to make some comments. While I am not Mormon, my sister is and my mother was, and I have attented the church quite a few times when I was younger. While it is certainly arguable that the religion is unorthodox, I would argue that it still holds qualities, whether we like it or not, that make it Christian.

The concept of not believing in a unified trinity is not something new, it is an age old debate: Is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit one entity or three seperate entities or both at the same time? It wasn't an arguement that began with the Mormon church, but rather a while back in Christianity, if I remember correctly. And all sides had their reasons for believing one of these answers. To declare that the arguement has been settled today and that we should all believe in a unified Trinity with one unified entity would belittle it in a way that doesn't quite do the question justice. Don't look for an arguement to support your own, just look for an arguement against it in order to see why this isn't so simple a matter.

I do agree that the concept of men becoming gods is an appauling construct to my own mind. I just could never do it, and frankly, even if this were reality, I do believe that I would have to tell God that it just wasn't in me, he'd have to find something else to use me for, because frankly I will never be a god, I cannot and never will be able to measure up to the life and example of Jesus Christ. End of story (This is what got us in trouble to begin with (points to tree of knowledge of good and evil))... In fact I could never come close. Further more, I disagree with the teaching of different gods for different planets (I always wondered who they thought got stuck with Pluto... Or what about Xena, and what qualifies as a planet?).

In the end, there is probobly a whole plethora of things that I would disagree about but I'll leave it at that... I'm not looking to add more fuel to an already jumpy flame.

Yet dispite my our great disagreements I do know that they still believe in Jesus Christ as God the Son (albeit a seperate entity) and declare him as the path to salvation, if they believed in other requirements they certainly didn't make it clear in Sunday school, or when their missionaries stopped over once in a while. As a consequence, even though we couldn't disagree more on many other topics, they still do have the right to refer to themselves as a Christian organization, as the belief in Jesus Christ as lord and savior is the definitive defintion that defines Christianity, whether the rest of Christianity shares ideas and philosophies that they do not share does not change the result of the first statement.

Concerning the children... You're sixteen, and I do believe that most people would agreed dat yer just a tad bit too young to handle children... You're just a kid yourself. I think that W4C and Puritan (ages 22 and 23) might want to consider their audience a little more carefully before, sharing their personal desire for a family... I mean Puritans a grad student in nuclear engineering, so he is about to gain a sound education and will the common social next step is indeed marriage. This is not the same position that Jon would be in any means or way!

The desire for "Families can be together forever... through heavenly father's plan" isn't irrational, especially if you have been taught this as a value for much of your life. The love within families is probobly the most influential ellement in each of our existances, the concern of seperating and reducing that bond is something that terrifies. But in the end, I think that families will be able to see each other in Heaven through Christ, but this just isn't made a major deal over in other religions, and other religions don't have the multiple levels of Heaven that the LDS church has.

Anyways, two more worthless cents from Pascal
G2G
Pascal

[GrubbTheFragger]

Don't get all stressed out Jon. God will bring a girl into your life when HE beleaves you are ready. My advice is first become good friends with Girls and then maybe just maybe you'll find one that will eventually become your girlfriend.

Begging for it in advance is the equivalent of a six-year-old wanting to drive the family SUV on vacation.

wow thats one of the most comically serious statements i have ever read. I also agree whole heartedly

[mitsuki lover]

Some of us even make it into our 40s without being kissed or finding a girlfriend,YET.
It does take awhile and I guess God just wants to make sure we're ready and mature enough for when Miss Right comes along.
*SIGH*
It's either that or get a dog and cat.

[Joshua Christopher]

Everyone's posts here are extremely good, with special props to SirThinks2Much, who seems to be thinking quite a lot.

But I'll break out of the current trend and throw in something for the future, Jon.

Everyone is right about not worrying over this and just waiting until God has decided it is the right time for you. However, here's something to remember. People like self-confidence. If you cannot even stand your own self and constantly beat yourself up, you can never expect anyone to like you.

[Nate]

I'm sorry, Pascal, but I'm going to have to disprove a couple of your misconceptions.

Yet dispite my our great disagreements I do know that they still believe in Jesus Christ as God the Son (albeit a seperate entity) and declare him as the path to salvation, if they believed in other requirements they certainly didn't make it clear in Sunday school, or when their missionaries stopped over once in a while.

False. They believe in Jesus, but not the Christ. Christ was wholly God and wholly man, and was the great I Am. He stated so Himself multiple times. To say Christ was not God, makes Christ a liar or a lunatic (the three L argument). He stated He was God COUNTLESS times. If the Mormons do not believe the Son and the Father are one, then that means either Jesus was lying every time He stated He was God, or He was a dangerous lunatic who was psychotic, on the same level as a man who says he is a poached egg. Further, they believe Christ was once a regular man like you or me. This is horribly heretical, as Christ NEVER was a human like us.

they still do have the right to refer to themselves as a Christian organization, as the belief in Jesus Christ as lord and savior is the definitive defintion that defines Christianity, whether the rest of Christianity shares ideas and philosophies that they do not share does not change the result of the first statement.

True, IF the Jesus Christ they believe in is the one mentioned in the Bible. However, as this is not the case, then they are not Christian. Just because the Mormon Jesus shares the same name as the true Christ, doesn't make them the same. If I were to invent a religion and say "Jesus Christ is the true path to salvation" but I believe Jesus Christ is a 900 foot tall blue t-rex who came from the planet Krylock, I am not a Christian, even though I said Christ is the only way to salvation. Because I don't believe in the real Christ.

Finally, their belief in Joseph Smith is the real clincher. They believe Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God...unfortunately, this is not the case. Nothing Joseph Smith prophesied came true. That makes him a false prophet. That means anyone who believes in him is lost.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" - Galatians 1:8

Since Joseph Smith has preached a gospel that is contrary to our Christian gospel, he is eternally condemned.

Sorry, but Mormons can call themselves Christians all they want, but they aren't. If I call myself a lawnmower, I'm not a lawnmower, no matter how much I call myself one.

[Yumie]

Sorry, fellas, but I'm going to have to call an end to this religious debate. Not because you haven't kept it perfectly friendly so far, but because they're just not allowed here. Anywho, carry on!

[Silent Hunter]

Yay!! I love my baptist church! it rocks. well, not to many of the elders will be found "rocking out" to any contemporary sounding music at my church, but except for that, and the general dislike for dancing, baptists churches are pretty good places!!

-:grin:-

[Puguni]

It seems things come to you when you least expect it. God most likely won't give you something if you are looking so hard for it, no matter your best intentions. Just let God handle the rest and live your life holy.

From my own experience, I wanted to have a boyfriend, so I bothered and pined after all these random boys. Instead, I lost self-respect and dignity. Looking back now, I'm still annoyed at what a loser I was being, but I learned from it. Don't fall into the same thing.

[Jon Clement]

Oh, no, I can certainly wait for a girlfriend... I just don't like the idea of NEVER being able to have a girlfriend...

But as for the mormons, I decided that people shouldn't need these temple marriages and all these special conditions and yatta yatta yatta... Not everyone believe... I think all people need to be together forever is to truly love eachother and have faith that it's possible...

[Joshua Christopher]

Oh, no, I can certainly wait for a girlfriend... I just don't like the idea of NEVER being able to have a girlfriend...

Then don't worry about it, dude. If you keep telling yourself you never will, you're just defeating yourself in the first place. Be positive and confident.

[Mangafanatic]

But as for the mormons, I decided that people shouldn't need these temple marriages and all these special conditions and yatta yatta yatta... Not everyone believe... I think all people need to be together forever is to truly love eachother and have faith that it's possible...

Just make sure, though, that you're not just putting faith in faith alone. Having faith in something not supported by Scripture is about as worthless as having faith in tofu. Jesus is the way, the thruth, and the life, and no one come to God except by Jesus. Love for others is nothing without a saving faith in him. Faith in some over arching idea is pointless without him. Without Christ, eternal seperation from God is the terrible consequence, but that is not God's desire for humanity. He desires that we should all come to accept Christ as the savior and only way to God.

Not that I think you don't believe that, but I just wanted to makes sure it had been said! If you have any questions or thoughts, feel free to PM me.

[Maledicte]

May I have the pleasure of quoting you, Osaka?

Having faith in something not supported by Scripture is about as worthless as having faith in tofu.

Now if more people said THAT behind the pulpit...

[Jon Clement]

Well, I've concluded that the bible really doesn't say anything about romance or having children in heaven... The only thing that says anything in those lines is no marriage. It doesn't say anything about anything else...

Also, people don't need to be married to be in love...

[mitsuki lover]

As long as you're open to what ever God might will for your life then you can expect to be surprised as to what may happen.

[Radical Dreamer]

Well, I've concluded that the bible really doesn't say anything about romance or having children in heaven... The only thing that says anything in those lines is no marriage. It doesn't say anything about anything else...

Also, people don't need to be married to be in love...

No kids in heaven, no, but there's plenty of romance in the Bible. Go read Song of Solomon, it's full of it. As far as marriage is concerned, Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians that, while remaining single is certainly a good thing, getting married is also good, and is especially good to keep one from sexually sinning outside of marriage. Also, God tells us to be fruitful and multiply. We couldn't do that (and be right in God's word) without being married. God's Word has plenty to say on the subject of marriage, you've just got to look in the right places.

[Tommy]

It`s great to know you enjoyed chruch but I`m not pleased to know that you went to a church that completely contradicts my beliefs.

That`s just me though.

EDIT: Did he say he used to go to a Mormon chruch or now he`s going to one?
If you went to a church that`s Christian then I`m proud.

[Radical Dreamer]

It`s great to know you enjoyed chruch but I`m not pleased to know that you went to a church that completely contradicts my beliefs.

That`s just me though.

You mean the Baptist church, or the Mormon one? O_o