The End Of CN As We Knew It?

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Postby Nate » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:29 pm

Chosen Raven wrote:And I, personally, am really not liking CN's shifting to live-action programming.

Cartoon Network doesn't give a rip what you, personally, like. They do what gets them ratings. If this gets them good ratings, they're gonna do it, whether you like it or not. If it gets them bad ratings, they'll stop doing it. It's as simple as that. So if you don't watch it, that's less ratings they'll get, and then if enough people don't watch, they WILL stop doing it. So Ark's advice is actually the smartest thing I've heard anyone say in this thread.

I'm tired of people painting images of network executives that they hate audiences or something. Hey, audiences are what keep a network on the air. If they don't get good ratings, they go away. So doing what they want with disregard for the audience, is not a smart business move. Since they are a BUSINESS, they're a lot smarter than you guys give them credit for, okay?
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Postby Chosen Raven » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:11 pm

Cartoon Network doesn't give a rip what you, personally, like. They do what gets them ratings. If this gets them good ratings, they're gonna do it, whether you like it or not. If it gets them bad ratings, they'll stop doing it. It's as simple as that. So if you don't watch it, that's less ratings they'll get, and then if enough people don't watch, they WILL stop doing it. So Ark's advice is actually the smartest thing I've heard anyone say in this thread.


Wait, CN cares about ratings? No kidding. That doesn't mean that we who don't like the direction the network is taking should just take a whatever attitude to the situation. And you're wrong. If enough of us do complain CN will "give a rip" about what we like. It's happened before.

I'm tired of people painting images of network executives that they hate audiences or something. Hey, audiences are what keep a network on the air. If they don't get good ratings, they go away. So doing what they want with disregard for the audience, is not a smart business move. Since they are a BUSINESS, they're a lot smarter than you guys give them credit for, okay?


Wow, they're smarter at business than us!? When will the shocking revelations end!! That doesn't mean we should be okay with what's happening. According to your view, we should just stand by and do nothing even if CN decides to make 60% of its programming live action. We believe that CN should stay true to its name. I mean, c'mon, they're airing movies that have been aired many times on other networks. Is it so wrong for us to voice our displeasure at CN becoming another TBS or TNT?

The bottom line is, we're going to complain about it because we feel that there is a need to. Don't like it? Tough. Follow your own "advice"(which is really just don't-like-don't-watch rhetoric) and pay no heed to us. If what we're doing isn't going to work like you say, then their's no point in even arguing with us about it.

I'm sorry if that was a bit rude, kaemmerite, but I thought the reply should fit the post.
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Postby Stephen » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:17 pm

Everyone needs to take about 6 deep breaths. Agree to disagree, and put the boxing gloves away. If you two feel the need to verbaly whoop each other, at least take it to PM. Thanks guys.
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Postby Yeshua-Knight » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:50 pm

random thought pertaining to the topic: take two things into consideration 1) saved by the bell was made in the 80's which is the same time period that many of the cn viewers were watching it as children or somewhat older 2) there are worse shows they could put on there, i personally like saved by the bell and i'm rather impressed that they're putting it in that time slot when they could just as easily put something that i would be very much repulsed by


ok, nuff said for me on this topic

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Postby rocklobster » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:40 am

Ark wrote:Geez you guys act like its the end of the world or somthing. Don't watch it if you don't like it. As much as CN changes there line-up, its not somthing to give yourself ulcers over.

And it is a bad thing Ark. Already two networks have given up on anime. Sci-fi channel gave up 4 years ago, which was a stupid move on their part. And now, so has G4. <conspiracy>It's a plot by Big DVD</conspiracy>
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Postby Bobtheduck » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:05 am

I'd like to say only one thing: Does ANYONE at CAA get neilson boxes? If not, then our viewing choices won't affect what comes on TV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby Peanut » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:54 am

kaemmerite wrote:Cartoon Network doesn't give a rip what you, personally, like. They do what gets them ratings. If this gets them good ratings, they're gonna do it, whether you like it or not. If it gets them bad ratings, they'll stop doing it. It's as simple as that. So if you don't watch it, that's less ratings they'll get, and then if enough people don't watch, they WILL stop doing it. So Ark's advice is actually the smartest thing I've heard anyone say in this thread.


I have to agree with you and Ark, kaemmerite, and I don't know why some people seem to have a problem with your advice Ark. I mean, if you don't like a show, usually that means you don't watch the show at all. So, are all of you who are upset about what Cartoon Network is doing planning on watching "Saved By the Bell" on AS?

Anyway, I am a little upset about this for the same reasons that Mistsuki Lover is upset with this. I just doesn't make sense, they are called Cartoon Network, so one would expect them to show only cartoons or cartoon based shows... and yet, here is an example where they are not. It just seems... well weird... and thats about it...
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Postby Rexman64 » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:03 am

Bobtheduck wrote:I'd like to say only one thing: Does ANYONE at CAA get neilson boxes? If not, then our viewing choices won't affect what comes on TV.

Actually, they wouldn't be able to tell you even if they did. That's apparently one of the rules.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:08 pm

I think that's the whole idea behind the Neilsen's,they're supposed to be anonymous.
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:47 pm

Guys, geez, just chill the heck out. It's only television. I'm going to toss another penny in the "don't like don't watch" jar.
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Postby GrubbTheFragger » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:38 pm

wow u guys do really need to chill out as many have said. to echo Ark if u don't like just don't watch easy as that. I highly argee with Yeshua-knight it is better Saved by the bell then some other nasty crap (12oz mouse, stroker and hoop?) some shows that come on at midnight are disgusting and rely on Sexual jokes for the laughs (GAH!) were as Saved by the bell (tho not animation) still is a heck of alot better than that crap. I personally like Saved by the bell (expects to b asked why) it may be corny as all get out but hey at least it teaches you values instead if ur drunk enough it will be funn( as with the shows mentioned above) thats the only way those shows can be funny. Now with that said every one chill out and take a deep breath(including myself) and if u disagree with what some one said just let it go.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:52 pm

I think you miss the point.
This is still a network that is supposed to be devoted to animation,even though AS is supposed to be separate entity from CN now,the fact is it's main focus is still supposed to be on animation.Most of us wouldn't complain if there was some sort of relation to animation,for example I doubt anyone would complain if the 60's Batman series was aired on AS since it does have a relation to animation/comic books.
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Postby Stephen » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:20 pm

It's threads like this that make me see the negative side of animefans that outsiders make fun of. It's not going to cause a time rift if they show non-animated shows on Cartoon Network.
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Postby Tommy » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:33 pm

I found the following actually comical:

[crappy 1980s live action tv show network]

in the abstence of another braketed title.
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Postby Shao Feng-Li » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:26 pm

Sheesh. I'm about ready to get rid of cable and buy the DVDs. It would be cheaper anyway. (Besides, I don't think Adult Swim has ever been cool.)
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Postby GrubbTheFragger » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:34 am

Mitsuki lover wrote:I think you miss the point.
This is still a network that is supposed to be devoted to animation,even though AS is supposed to be separate entity from CN now,the fact is it's main focus is still supposed to be on animation.Most of us wouldn't complain if there was some sort of relation to animation,for example I doubt anyone would complain if the 60's Batman series was aired on AS since it does have a relation to animation/comic books.


yea i see your point. But still as i stated above in my post i would rather watch Saved by the bell then 12oz mouse and Stroker and hoop. But as for what u stated yes AS is spose to be only animation but as i think u also stated earlier on i belieave AS and CN were bought out. Also one last thing it probably also has alot to t with Ted turner since he owns AS,CN, TBS, and several other networks he is trying to get a little more money out of SBTB before it goes into his vault forever. So he decided to put it on one of his channels that seems to be popular
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Postby freerock1 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:44 am

I'm not a fan of the decision to show SBTB on AS (or the recent rash of live action programs on CN in general). But I would hope that they're at least smart enough as businesspeople to conduct market research determining whether or not the live action programming was a good business move.

Not sure whether they did, though.
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Postby Chosen Raven » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:00 am

It's threads like this that make me see the negative side of animefans that outsiders make fun of. It's not going to cause a time rift if they show non-animated shows on Cartoon Network.


I don't remember seeing anybody say "CN shouldn't air live-action shows and movies because they can show more anime!!!". We want animation, not just anime. You might be better served, Ark, by coming up with more reasonable arguements for your view instead of making baseless accusations of fanboyism. Bobtheduck reminded me of something in his post. We don't all have Neilson boxes(I know I don't), so the don't-like-don't-watch arguement doesn't really have a base anymore. The only way we can make a difference is to be vocal about our displeasure of where the network is headed.
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Postby Stephen » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:02 pm

I should have said cartoons. That would include your Japanese cartoons as well as American huh?

Chosen Raven wrote:The only way we can make a difference is to be vocal about our displeasure of where the network is headed.


I hardly doubt whining will get you much, but by all means continue.


Chosen Raven wrote:We don't all have Neilson boxes(I know I don't), so the don't-like-don't-watch arguement doesn't really have a base anymore

Actually, it does have a base. Stop watching the station if you don't like what it plays. Go rent a movie or somthing. Ratings decide what gets played, not ranting fans.
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Postby Yeshua-Knight » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:05 pm

*fails to see how a cartoon channel showing a show that has "cartoony" tendencies is a bad thing....."
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Postby Pent » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:38 pm

CN allready was dead in my mind before they did this. Although this is probably the worst of all there ideas.

Where are the good old days? Not just AS but thier normal programing as well.

O well.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:08 pm

Yeah,it was only a few years ago when they were still running 'toons like The Flintstones,Jonny Quest and Popeye and anime like Sailor Moon,Knights of the
Zodaic and Zoids:Fuzors.
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Postby Chosen Raven » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:30 pm

I hardly doubt whining will get you much, but by all means continue.


It's helped before. In other mediums as well.

Actually, it does have a base. Stop watching the station if you don't like what it plays. Go rent a movie or somthing. Ratings decide what gets played, not ranting fans.


It has no base whatsoever. Not watching the network would do squat to tell them I don't like where the network is headed. Believe it or not, networks do have people who prowl the internet for opinions. Writing an e-mail would probably help as well.

Where do you get off calling us ranting fans? I'm certainly not calling people names like you. Maybe you think that because you're a mod, it's okay to be an utter jerk? You've obviously abandoned reason, so I don't see any point in argueing with or even acknowledging you any more.
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Postby Bobtheduck » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:43 pm

Completely off topic, but I think every forum has an "angry guardian" like Ark...

He reminds me a lot of my old roomate...

On CN, I agree it shouldn't be showing non-animation as features on the network, except things like how animation is made or maybe even a show about an animator... That would all fall in line and be ok for the network.

And, with the neilson boxes, those are the #1 deciding factor for what stays on the air. Now, with Tivo and the internet, viewers have more ways to make their choices known, but Tivo requires viewers with more money (to afford the Tivo service) and similar restrictions apply to the Internet, so statisticians care more about the random sampling of the neilsons than they would the Tivo ratings, or the incomprehensable internet message boards and thousands of emails the networks receive an hour...

The neilsons are the main thing influencing decisions.

However, with Cartoon Network, they're a niche market. Right from the start, they're targeting a specific market that overall ratings should not be the primary concern. They have to use different methods to pick their shows, and yet? The neilsons are still what they choose... These niche channels still rely on the neilsons to get them sponsorship. It sucks, but it's reality.

Expanding past their premise, much like TechTV did, is a desperate ploy to pull ratings, even if it's just a "What the ferociouslyfreakishthingtodo?!" It means they aren't doing well and are tying something new to come out on top... What do you expect? American culture is, by and large, conditioned to think "Cartoons = kids" even with shows like Simpsons getting big ratings... Simpsons was the rare breakout, but the followups (like Family Guy, Futureama, etc) have lagged behind and the other adult swim stuff have just been looked at as a novelty, the general opinion of the culture unchanged.

I see this as a sign the network is dying, yes, but not the only sign... The signs have been showing for a while, now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs Watch this movie なう。 It's legal, free... And it's more than its premise. It's not saying Fast Food is good food. Just watch it.
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Postby Stephen » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:33 pm

Chosen Raven wrote:Where do you get off calling us ranting fans? I'm certainly not calling people names like you. Maybe you think that because you're a mod, it's okay to be an utter jerk? You've obviously abandoned reason, so I don't see any point in argueing with or even acknowledging you any more.


Wow. Are you that thin-skinned? Did you seriously take offense to the term "ranting fan"?
Chosen Raven wrote:I'm certainly not calling people names like you. Maybe you think because you're a mod it's ok to be a jerk?"


Thank Goodness your not calling names. And as far as your last point goes, if you really belived that, you would not have written that entire post. Unless of course, you like hearing yourself talk. I will however, refrain from posting anymore on this thread.
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:47 pm

If you guys are so **** off at Cartoon Network's programming choices, band together and send them a bunch of letters and stop clogging up CAA with your whining.
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Postby Yumie » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:16 pm

Chosen Raven wrote:Where do you get off calling us ranting fans? I'm certainly not calling people names like you. Maybe you think that because you're a mod, it's okay to be an utter jerk? You've obviously abandoned reason, so I don't see any point in argueing with or even acknowledging you any more.


Chosen Raven, I want to make clear right now that the Bible says that Christians are to have respect for those in authority over us, and I would even venture to imagine that that pertains to authority that we *disagree* with. I point this out because your post (quoted above) was extremely disrespectful toward Ark. Ark's behavior is between himself and God, and yours is not justified by his. If you have a problem with some way that Ark presents his ideas, I would suggest that you respond Biblically, by telling him privately that you were offended by his actions, rather than by openly criticizing him and undermining his authority. I know how easy it is to get carried away when we're upset about something, but that's not an excuse for responding poorly. Please take this into consideration in the future.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:39 pm

Bobtheduck wrote:Completely off topic, but I think every forum has an "angry guardian" like Ark...

He reminds me a lot of my old roomate...

On CN, I agree it shouldn't be showing non-animation as features on the network, except things like how animation is made or maybe even a show about an animator... That would all fall in line and be ok for the network.

And, with the neilson boxes, those are the #1 deciding factor for what stays on the air. Now, with Tivo and the internet, viewers have more ways to make their choices known, but Tivo requires viewers with more money (to afford the Tivo service) and similar restrictions apply to the Internet, so statisticians care more about the random sampling of the neilsons than they would the Tivo ratings, or the incomprehensable internet message boards and thousands of emails the networks receive an hour...

The neilsons are the main thing influencing decisions.

However, with Cartoon Network, they're a niche market. Right from the start, they're targeting a specific market that overall ratings should not be the primary concern. They have to use different methods to pick their shows, and yet? The neilsons are still what they choose... These niche channels still rely on the neilsons to get them sponsorship. It sucks, but it's reality.

Expanding past their premise, much like TechTV did, is a desperate ploy to pull ratings, even if it's just a "What the ferociouslyfreakishthingtodo?!" It means they aren't doing well and are tying something new to come out on top... What do you expect? American culture is, by and large, conditioned to think "Cartoons = kids" even with shows like Simpsons getting big ratings... Simpsons was the rare breakout, but the followups (like Family Guy, Futureama, etc) have lagged behind and the other adult swim stuff have just been looked at as a novelty, the general opinion of the culture unchanged.

I see this as a sign the network is dying, yes, but not the only sign... The signs have been showing for a while, now...


Meanwhile one of the hottest new animated series is airing on Nickelodeon and not CN.I refer to Avatar:The Last Air Bender.It's not that people don't want to watch animation,wheter anime or cartoon,it's that they want quality
just like anything else.
The fact that Inuyasha remains one of the more popular animes on AS further points that people will watch quality animation wheter anime or cartoons.
Unfortunately quality is not,it appears,in the lexicon of TPTB that run CN and especially AS. :shady:
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Postby ashfire » Thu May 04, 2006 4:09 pm

The newspaper comic Foxtrot by Bill Amend took up the cause of Cartoon Network running live action TV shows instead of animatinon shows.
The one comic strip on Tuesday has the youngest of the Foxtrot kids complaining about what CN is doing. The last panel has the young boy saying " It'd be like a news network running stuff besides news"
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Postby mitsuki lover » Fri May 05, 2006 12:20 pm

Note as he says that they have the tv on and you can read where an interviewer on an unindentified news network is doing just that.
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