Loving Your Enemies

[Solid Ronin]

"...But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." - Matthew 5:39

This is what we as Christians are commanded to do, however I (and I'm sure many of you) have a hard time digesting it. Though I'm cretain I can restrain myself from hitting someone back I know that I would regret it afterwards.

Which is were this thread comes into play. My thoughts are if a man would do the will of God but not with a fully obedient heart is he truly doing the will of God?

[Puritan]

I think you would be correct in saying that doing the will of God unwillingly is not serving or honoring God. Let me expound a bit. We know from the Old Testament that God had a number of nations attack Israel. Isaiah 10:5-15 is very explicit about this, stating that God will use Assyria to attack Israel, and God in fact commands the Assyrians to attack and plunder Israel. However, the Assyrians were not trying to do the will of God, they were concerned about destruction and glory and God punished them for their arrogance. We must remember that God looks at the heart, and doing something He desires for the wrong reasons is wrong.

However, we must also remember that we are fallen people, and that our actions will always be tainted in some way. Our desires will conflict with each other and we will do good things for the wrong reasons and wrong things for seemingly good reasons. Because of that we will often be in a situation where we will do what is right without having a fully obedient heart, but that doesn't nullify the importance of what we are doing. Look at it this way: you cannot do good in and of yourself on this Earth. Everything you do will be tainted unless God sancifies it as your motives can never be completely pure until you have been perfected by God, which will not happen in this life. We must strive to do good and pray constantly for God's sanctification and grace so that we may do His work, but we cannot expect our motives to ever be completely pure.

While loving our enemies is extremely difficult, we must remember that it isn't something we can do ourselves. It sounds like you are stuggling with the fact that you still desire to hit someone who hit you even when you know you shouldn't, but understand that you cannot change your desires, only God can. Even though our motives are not pure, we must strive to do the will of God and pray that He gives us the right motiviation and desires to do His will.

[White Raven]

Your question is very blanketed.

Are you asking if obedience out of fear, is the same as obedience out of love?

[Steeltemplar]

Another good question is: By hitting back do you mean self-defense or revenge? They are very different matters.

[ChristianKitsune]

Another good question is: By hitting back do you mean self-defense or revenge? They are very different matters.

Are they? Did Jesus defend himself when he was on the cross?

I am not saying to be pushovers...but violence...isn't really the answer...if we are hurt...we shouldn't fight back with violence..but with love...

it is hard to love our enemies...it takes a lot of thought and prayer for me to do so...but I think I really try to love them..I mean...they are human too, no matter whta and God still loves them just as much as they love me...perhaps there is a reason the way they act? I dunno... I just want to be as kind to everyone as I can...sometimes I fail though...

Of course...if someone were to rob me...I would have to defend myself...or call the police...or something...I wonder....if this works with small cases like verbal and beatings? (like bullys and stuff)

[Solid Ronin]

To Puritan:

"... but understand that you cannot change your desires, only God can. Even though our motives are not pure, we must strive to do the will of God and pray that He gives us the right motiviation and desires to do His will."

I fully agree with you. I believe we cannot even glorify God without God.

To White Raven:

I'm afraid I don't fully understand your question about my question.

To simplify My question I would say:

Should I do the will of God though I don't want to?

To Steeltemplar:

Self Defense

[Steeltemplar]

To Puritan:

"... but understand that you cannot change your desires, only God can. Even though our motives are not pure, we must strive to do the will of God and pray that He gives us the right motiviation and desires to do His will."

I fully agree with you. I believe we cannot even glorify God without God.

To White Raven:

I'm afraid I don't fully understand your question about my question.

To simplify My question I would say:

Should I do the will of God though I don't want to?

To Steeltemplar:

Self Defense

I see. Well, I believe that the verse you are referring to is warning against revenge really. I believe that God does not want us to be pacifists unless in some cases we might be called to a non-violent life. We need to defend ourselves and, more importantly, others from those who would do harm.

Of course, the level of force used in self-defense should be measured according to the danger. But by no means feel yourself wrong for thinking you should stand up for yourself.

[White Raven]

I see. Well, I believe that the verse you are referring to is warning against revenge really. I believe that God does not want us to be pacifists unless in some cases we might be called to a non-violent life. We need to defend ourselves and, more importantly, others from those who would do harm.

Of course, the level of force used in self-defense should be measured according to the danger. But by no means feel yourself wrong for thinking you should stand up for yourself.

I agree.

God doesn’t want us to sit by and let someone hurt us or anyone else.

God himself helped David kill Goliath.

If someone were trying to kill or someone I loved. And I knew that I could not stop them, unless I killed them.
Yes I would kill them.
I know I would regret it for the rest of my days, but I would also regret not acting.

[Stephen]

Heh somtimes doing nothing causes more harm to people then doing somthing. I defend myself and those around me. Those who do nothing while someone is harmed, will be held accountable just as someone using violence against someone innocent will be. Turning a blind-eye is not what we are called to do.

[White Raven]

Heh somtimes doing nothing causes more harm to people then doing somthing. I defend myself and those around me. Those who do nothing while someone is harmed, will be held accountable just as someone using violence against someone innocent will be. Turning a blind-eye is not what we are called to do.

Well said.

My fiancé (Jeremy) was abused by his father and his uncle. His mother did nothing to stop it.
In my mind she is just as guilty as the abusers.

[Tenshi no Ai]

Heh somtimes doing nothing causes more harm to people then doing somthing. I defend myself and those around me. Those who do nothing while someone is harmed, will be held accountable just as someone using violence against someone innocent will be. Turning a blind-eye is not what we are called to do.

So I thought about this and remembered reading the book Jesus Freaks last year. Just reminded me how those in there in a couple cases gave up their loved ones because they wouldn't give up their Bibles... Commentless about what to think, really, knowing God comes first and then everyone else and stuff^^

I think for me if it didn't involve God stuff though, if I was left alone and was corned and attacked in any which way, I'd fight. Taking rape for a harsh example I would NOT just do nothing about it. If someone else was with me and they were beign attacked, I'd probably protect, in that way of fighting.

[mitsuki lover]

Trying to find alternatives to hate is probably the hardest thing in the world to do,which is why Jesus' statments in the Sermon On the Mount are still as radical today as they were when he original spoke them.

[Solid Ronin]

Those who do nothing while someone is harmed, will be held accountable just as someone using violence against someone innocent will be. Turning a blind-eye is not what we are called to do.

I didn't suggest That we do nothing while someone ELSE is being harmed by Myself being harmed. Though I do agree with the rest of what you said.

"God himself helped David kill Goliath."

That was in The Old testement.

[Lehn]

Great words of wisdom from Oscar Wilde:

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."

[White Raven]

That was in The Old testement.

Same God.

[Scer]

Of course...if someone were to rob me...I would have to defend myself...or call the police...or something...I wonder....if this works with small cases like verbal and beatings? (like bullys and stuff)

Not to belittle rape or anything, but it seems to me that one should 'love thy enemy' especially in the smaller cases, where it might seem less important to do so.

[mitsuki lover]

We have to get away from the idea that Love is some how wishy-washy and easy to do.It's hard enough to love the people we like,think how much harder it is to even TRY to love the people we detest.

[Tenshi no Ai]

It's hard enough to love the people we like,think how much harder it is to even TRY to love the people we detest.

It reminds me of the book we had to read in class called "Disgrace". In the book, a while after a girl had an affair with a guy and then was raped but him, her dad (Christian) invited the guy to dinner! While discussing it in class our teacher asked all the girls of "what would you do if you were the mother and your husband was inviting a guy like THAT to dinner?" When I was asked, I just said "Yeah I wouldn't be entirely happy about it..." and after the fact realized I could have said "Well, Christians strongly believe in forgiveness in whoever or whatever was done." Didn't think about it until later of course^^ Then my teacher made the comment that the father was "a very odd guy to do a think like that" and that he didn't understand WHY someone would...
In reality I think it would be a VERY hard thing to forgive someone for something like that. And in that situation I know that you should forgive the person, but how hard would it to share your hospitality with a "monster" (to put it harshly)?

[Steeltemplar]

It reminds me of the book we had to read in class called "Disgrace". In the book, a while after a girl had an affair with a guy and then was raped but him, her dad (Christian) invited the guy to dinner! While discussing it in class our teacher asked all the girls of "what would you do if you were the mother and your husband was inviting a guy like THAT to dinner?" When I was asked, I just said "Yeah I wouldn't be entirely happy about it..." and after the fact realized I could have said "Well, Christians strongly believe in forgiveness in whoever or whatever was done." Didn't think about it until later of course^^ Then my teacher made the comment that the father was "a very odd guy to do a think like that" and that he didn't understand WHY someone would...
In reality I think it would be a VERY hard thing to forgive someone for something like that. And in that situation I know that you should forgive the person, but how hard would it to share your hospitality with a "monster" (to put it harshly)?

I personally think that it would be wrong to invite the guy. If for no other reason, what about the daughter? Seeing this guy, especially being treated well by her own family, could well be a traumatic experience.

Did the rapist at least have to serve a prison sentence first? Had he paid a price for his crime?

[Tenshi no Ai]

I personally think that it would be wrong to invite the guy. If for no other reason, what about the daughter? Seeing this guy, especially being treated well by her own family, could well be a traumatic experience.

Did the rapist at least have to serve a prison sentence first? Had he paid a price for his crime?

I'll PM ya on more info on how the story goes so we won't go too off topic here.

[termyt]

To simplify My question I would say:

Should I do the will of God though I don't want to?

To simplify my answer: Yes. Do the will of God whether you want to or not. You may not be winning any brownie points with Him if you are doing it against your own will but simply ignoring God's will will only lead you down the path to ruin and sadness.

That is not to say that that passage is telling you to willingly be a victim of violence. What it is showing you is the frame of mind you should put yourself in when faced with that kind of situation. I think it somewhat humorous that the rest of the passage in the Matthew chapter 5 is not held up in the same way as the “turn the other cheekâ€

[Syreth]

However, we must also remember that we are fallen people, and that our actions will always be tainted in some way. Our desires will conflict with each other and we will do good things for the wrong reasons and wrong things for seemingly good reasons. Because of that we will often be in a situation where we will do what is right without having a fully obedient heart, but that doesn't nullify the importance of what we are doing. Look at it this way: you cannot do good in and of yourself on this Earth. Everything you do will be tainted unless God sancifies it as your motives can never be completely pure until you have been perfected by God, which will not happen in this life. We must strive to do good and pray constantly for God's sanctification and grace so that we may do His work, but we cannot expect our motives to ever be completely pure.

While loving our enemies is extremely difficult, we must remember that it isn't something we can do ourselves. It sounds like you are stuggling with the fact that you still desire to hit someone who hit you even when you know you shouldn't, but understand that you cannot change your desires, only God can. Even though our motives are not pure, we must strive to do the will of God and pray that He gives us the right motiviation and desires to do His will.

Wow, I'm glad that the Lord gave you that insight. It was just what I needed to hear, actually.

Hmm... The issue here seems to be more of what's in our hearts. If we can address the fact that we have sinful desires in our hearts and let God change us on the inside, then the sinful acts won't be the issue that they were. Of course, easier said than done, right?