Quick Question

[Ai-chan]

has anyone ever heard of the manga D. Gray-Man? It seems incredible controversial but I only read like, the first chapter. If anyone has any info on it tell me!

[Debitt]

I'm a big fan of D.Gray-man - I didn't find much "controversial" about it, but I think it'd be easier to give you more information if you clarify what you mean by controversial. ^^ If you find some use of religious symbolism to be offensive, then you might be bothered by it, but the "bad religious content" is definitely a far cry from the titles on the Do Not Discuss list.

[Tommy]

I`ve read some chapters here and there.

The main character reminds me of Edward Elric for some stupid reason.

I second KD. A far cry from the DnD list, but the spiritual content is pretty bad in my eyes. I`ve seen MUCh worse though.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

D.gray man isn't as bad in religious tones if you compare it with like..... mai-hime or evangalion or death note or a few other titles out there.

[Debitt]

I'm wondering which aspects of the manga you think were "pretty bad", Tom. ^_^; Please don't take this as an attack, I'm just interested in hearing your thoughts.

[Kawaiikneko]

death note? I resent that.. XD (yes I realize some things in DN can be found offensive. I personally treat it the way I read Greek mythology)

but seriously, D.Grayman isn't that bad. There's a religious oganization that combats the evil things. That's a very generalized statement though XD I haven't read d.grayman in awhile.

[uc pseudonym]

What would be controversial about it is the fact that it is set in a world in which a church organization fights against evil monsters. Certainly, it has co-opted vast amounts of Christian imagery. You could argue the use of the Noah family and the presumably altered "history" is blasphemous.

But that having been said, I've read all of it and I didn't find it so. Hopefully more will come out soon. Does anyone know what the cause is of the delay? There have only been two or three chapters in the past months.

If you find some use of religious symbolism to be offensive, then you might be bothered by it, but the "bad religious content" is definitely a far cry from the titles on the Do Not Discuss list.

Note that the DND list was produced by titles that repeatedly caused arguments, not ones that the staff disliked. I think that there are a number of titles on that list that use Christian religious imagery less extensively or in less offensive manners. I'll also point out that Hellsing isn't on the list, and it isn't exactly orthodox.

death note? I resent that.. XD (yes I realize some things in DN can be found offensive. I personally treat it the way I read Greek mythology)

Hm, I would like to discuss this. I'll echo an earlier question: what exactly did you find offensive? I personally think that Death Note is more Christian in spirit (though obviously not in intent) than many manga. It simply teaches negatively, not positively.

[MasterDias]

Religious content is not really any worse than every other Shonen Jump title... with the flashy and uber-powerful supernatural powers.

[jon_jinn]

i read up to about chapter 60 but stopped because it didn't really meet my standards and i thought it was sorta unusual. the battles were really detailed but i didn't really understand what was going on. yeah. the negative spiritual isn't as bad as some other titles like hellsing.

[Tommy]

Well, I like it, but the whole exorcism thing throws me off. All these souls and references to Ying-Yangs and your either black, white, or gray.

Hard to find an anime that isn`t like that.

[Ai-chan]

mostly the exorcism of people resurrected as demon's or "akuma" as they call them is what I find "controversial" I think that was the wrong word to use, sorry

[jon_jinn]

yep. now i understand how akuma from street fighter got his name.

[Joshua Christopher]

yep. now i understand how akuma from street fighter got his name.

Actually, Akuma was the name given to him in the American version.

I believe it was originally Goki. Or something like that.

And it's really too bad Evangelion is on the DND list, because none of you have a concept of what the symbolism means, since I'm sure most of you haven't even seen it.

And this whole deal about D.Gray Man is ridiculous.

No one has a problem with all of the occultic stuff in Fullmetal Alchemist, or whatever else, do they?

I guess human resurrection and occult sciences are fine, but a tiny bit of silly shounen supernatural powers isn't.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

because none of you have a concept of what the symbolism means, since I'm sure most of you haven't even seen it.

But some people have, and there is a reason why it is on the DnD list.

[Joshua Christopher]

But some people have, and there is a reason why it is on the DnD list.

Obviously. Still, it seems too many people just go along with one person's opinion on the series, and most people with some negative opinion on the series regarding any of it's supposed "religious content", obviously have no clue what was going on.

I still can't believe we have a topic about D. Gray Man. What in this series is worse than most other shounen titles? I mean, it's fictional for goodness sakes. I don't see complaints about witchcraft in Howl's Moving Castle.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

I think part of it is Christian symbolism. People get more offended when they feel that the Bible's words are being twisted, rather than just witchcraft being twisted.

[Joshua Christopher]

I think part of it is Christian symbolism. People get more offended when they feel that the Bible's words are being twisted, rather than just witchcraft being twisted.

Wait, what? Did you ever even read D. Gray Man? I hope you aren't referring to Eva, but anyway...there's no religious symbolism aside from the use of an image of a cross and the word "exorcist". There are no aspects of the Bible getting twisted. Hoshino Katsura already makes it clear that the story takes place in a "make-believe end of the 1800's". It's fictional people.

[Tommy]

I`ve seen Eva. I felt like I was playing Xenogears all over again. XD

That`s GEARS, not SAGA (You know, the good one).

Anyways, I honestly think the stuff in FMA is just as bad as D.Gray Man which I have read, but FMA doesn`t come out and say: "We`re Exorcists" because they aren`t. It`s the whole exorcist that makes the series a little worse spiritually-wise.

That doesn`t stop me, because it`s just a manga and it won`t inspire me to become an exorcist or something.

One quick note, Eva is on the DND list and we are D`n it in a sense so we should probably drop Eva as an example.

[Mangafanatic]

If perhaps we're all getting tempted to discuss Eva, let's not. Remember, DNDL titles are not a list of shows that the staff condemns. They're simply shows we do not discuss because they produce angry, flame-throwing discussions. If every Hamtaro discussion on the board ended in a verbal fist fight, Hamtaro would be on the DNDL. *Melody Maker enters the thread and begins to beat Osaka with a rubber hammer* The same goes for FMA. We don't put shows on our DNDL list for the quantity of religious symbolism and imagery; we do it because of the way our members handle their discussion of this imagery.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion!

[uc pseudonym]

Note that I don't disapprove of either series. However, I still take issue with a few things you said, Joshua Christopher.

No one has a problem with all of the occultic stuff in Fullmetal Alchemist, or whatever else, do they?

Plenty of people do have problems with Fullmetal Alchemist. It's just popular enough that those threads came and went quite a while ago. The people with objections now avoid FMA-related threads.

I guess human resurrection and occult sciences are fine, but a tiny bit of silly shounen supernatural powers isn't.

I imagine most of the people who accept FMA would accept something like D. Gray-Man, but I could be wrong. Furthermore, I don't think you understand why anyone is objecting. It isn't the fact that Allen has supernatural power, it is that the manga uses the Christian church, albeit a fictional version if it, as a plot device.

Wait, what? Did you ever even read D. Gray Man? I hope you aren't referring to Eva, but anyway...there's no religious symbolism aside from the use of an image of a cross and the word "exorcist". There are no aspects of the Bible getting twisted. Hoshino Katsura already makes it clear that the story takes place in a "make-believe end of the 1800's". It's fictional people.

I don't want to assume this, but at this point I must wonder if you have read all/most of the series. Symbolism aside, there are many more aspects that use religious imagery than those you mentioned. The exorcists are all part of a dark division of the Roman Catholic Church. Innocence is referred to as divine. Characters invoke religious things at times (not that this is anything unusual). As for Bible issues, I think the primary one is the fact that it puts forth an alternate history regarding the Noah flood, saying that it was destruction caused by an evil source, not God. Arguably it has Noah's descendants as evil (ie the Noah family).

So while I accept all of this as fantasy generally using religious imagery, I don't think the series is as irreligious as you presented it.

[Tommy]

[quote="Mangafanatic"] We don't put shows on our DNDL list for the quantity of religious symbolism and imagery]

With the obvious exception of hentai.

[Mangafanatic]

With the obvious exception of hentai.

Yes. I was referring to the series which are banned specifically, not the ones which have a blanketed ban. Thanks for pointing that out, Tom.