"Christianity is so outdated"

[Syreth]

It's definately unfortunate when that kind of legalism is what people think of as "Christian values." It makes me very angry when people try to put words in God's mouth, teaching well-meaning people something completely different than what the Bible says.

[Puritan]

I can understand feeling angry and betrayed when that is all you can see of Christianity. It is an unfortunate fact that it only takes one person to make an entire community look bad, and it is also an unfortunate fact that the Christian community has its share of these people. All Christians I know feel betrayed when they run into someone who takes the good news of the gospel and turns it into a legalistic message of hatred and anger, because they are preaching a message that even they cannot live up to. We are infinitely blessed that the message of Christ is one of forgiveness and grace rather than one of absolute legalism, because no one can live up to the standards of God. We must strive to show people that the Church is a collection of sinning, hurting people who are relying on God to sustain and save them rather than relying on their own righteousness so as to combat the idea that Christians believe we are better than other people and look down on everyone and everything. That message, and the morals that go along with it, will never grow old.

[Arnobius]

A long time back, Petra did a rather relevant song, called "Witch hunt"

[indent]Everybody look there's a new bandwagon in town
Hop on board and let the wind carry you around
Seems like there's not enough to keep us busy till the Lord comes back
Don Quixote's gotta have another windmill to attack

(Chorus)
Another witch hunt looking for evil wherever we can find it
Off on a tangent, hope the Lord won't mind it
Another witch hunt, takin' a break from all our gospel labor
On a crusade but we forgot our saber

There's a new way to spend all our energies
We're up in arms instead of down on our knees
Walkin' over dollars trying to find another dime
Never mind the souls 'cause we really haven't got the time

So send out the dogs and tally ho
Before we sleep tonight we've got miles to go
No one is safe, no stone's left unturned
And we won't stop until somebody gets burned
Bro Bro Bro Bro Bro Bro Brothers[/indent]

They weren't singing a historical song. They were singing about those people who are focussed on a negative Christianity of opposing evil instead of the Positive message of salvation from Christ. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people who have a negative view of Christians have them from people who seem to show hate instead of love and seem more concerned with saying so and so is going to hell instead of preaching the Good News by living a good Christian life as a testimony.

[Steeltemplar]

I definitely agree with what has been said here about Christians who become hateful and judgemental. Essentially unchristian. Telling someone that they will go to hell is unlikely to make them change their mind about the faith.

BTW, I admire the fact that you have decided to look beyond those unfortunate experiences Lady Macbeth.

At the same time, I should say that the opposite can also be problematic. That is to be too permissive. In seeking not to offend others, we should not omit the moral teachings which a non-Christian may not like. We need to be sure that tolerance and acceptance are not synonymous. Today they are too often so.

[termyt]

me and a friend we talking briefly about me going to do missions in japan. she made a comment that, 'christian values are so outdated'. how would you reply to that?

First of all, that is a very close-minded, narrow focus. People with closed minds are not likely to learn anything. You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

I would ask your friend why she thought so. What value system does she adhere to? If she could, perhaps, given an example as to why her value system is superior. Has it ended poverty? Racism? Hunger? Hate? Does it have the potential to do so?

The values popular today are not new or enlightened. They are very similar to the values of Rome and Greece immediately before they were destroyed.

[Flying Tigers]

A good thing is never effected by time. Other religions have many similarities with Christianity because people always knew good from wrong, though we are children, so God spelled it out in bold black letters, for us to understand easily.

[Zarn Ishtare]

Hmm...

Well, A few small points jump to the front of my mind:

1. Christianity is very open-minded to the spiritual, and to the Heavenly. Religions like Wicca and Shintoism carve their gods from the essence of mans fallen state, restraining them, making them susceptable to disease, age, and death. We who believe, however, see our God as a Limitless and Divine Being who cannot be slain, poisoned, or cut up into pieces to make the earth(See old Norse Mythologies for more on this) Furthermore, these so-called gods display every negative ounce of human emotion, ranging from Lust ( Zeus's escapades alone would shock even the most hardcore) to Jealousy (Hera, wife of Zeus, was known for the cruel punishments she exacted on his lovers) To several creepy degrees of such things that should never be spoken about on a christian site like this.

2.She almost certainly has ulterior motives for disliking Christianity. A further examination of said motives could bring about better developments.

3. For more convincing arguements, please see http://www.Gregscouch.com . This young Apologetist has some extremely convincing arguements for the lasting longevity of Christianity, Debate matierial to be used when discussing athiesm (Though he's light years away from beating people with the Bible) and other wanderful notions.

[rocklobster]

Hmm...

Well, A few small points jump to the front of my mind:

1. Christianity is very open-minded to the spiritual, and to the Heavenly. Religions like Wicca and Shintoism carve their gods from the essence of mans fallen state, restraining them, making them susceptable to disease, age, and death. We who believe, however, see our God as a Limitless and Divine Being who cannot be slain, poisoned, or cut up into pieces to make the earth(See old Norse Mythologies for more on this) Furthermore, these so-called gods display every negative ounce of human emotion, ranging from Lust ( Zeus's escapades alone would shock even the most hardcore) to Jealousy (Hera, wife of Zeus, was known for the cruel punishments she exacted on his lovers) To several creepy degrees of such things that should never be spoken about on a christian site like this.

Definitely! I mean, Zeus is even worse than Miroku on Inuyasha!

[Lady Macbeth]

Hmm...

Well, A few small points jump to the front of my mind:

1. Christianity is very open-minded to the spiritual, and to the Heavenly. Religions like Wicca and Shintoism carve their gods from the essence of mans fallen state, restraining them, making them susceptable to disease, age, and death. We who believe, however, see our God as a Limitless and Divine Being who cannot be slain, poisoned, or cut up into pieces to make the earth(See old Norse Mythologies for more on this) Furthermore, these so-called gods display every negative ounce of human emotion, ranging from Lust ( Zeus's escapades alone would shock even the most hardcore) to Jealousy (Hera, wife of Zeus, was known for the cruel punishments she exacted on his lovers) To several creepy degrees of such things that should never be spoken about on a christian site like this.

Definitely! I mean, Zeus is even worse than Miroku on Inuyasha!

Just a couple of clarifications that I wanted to make here before I move back into the main topic at hand]http://www.religioustolerance.org/shinto.htm[/url]

Wicca is a religion founded in the early 1950s by Gerald Gardner. He synthesized teachings that he had been given by a spiritual leader with information and understanding of magic that he had gained through contact and study with other practitioners of his time. The "God" and "Goddess" of Wicca are left ambiguous - modern Wiccans, depending on their denomination, may take any God or Goddess of the ancient worlds, and Christian Wiccans adopt the Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) or Jesus and Mary as their deities.

More information on Wicca can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

The Norse gods have little to no interaction with the mortal world. They could not care less what we as humans do with our time - the most we will ever interact with them is when the distinguished warriors help fight the great battle at Ragnarok. Certainly, their actions affect the world at large, usually on a millenial or similarly grand scale. However, there is not the day-to-day, person-to-person interaction found with other gods in other cultures.

The Greek gods (Zeus and Hera mentioned here) are personifications of the great forces at work in our world. They become human-like so that we as humans might better understand and work with them. Zeus (the Father and Patriarchy) and Hera (the Mother and Matriarchy) are born of Chronos (Time and Age) and Rhea (Motherly Wisdom). Chronos and Rhea were both born of Uranus (the Heavens) and Gaia (the Earth). Attributes associated with each god or goddess are those found to be dominated by that principle - men and the patriarchal world, for example, have long been associated with the concepts of taking multiple women and other "daring" escapades, while women have been long associated with cunning, jealous possessiveness of spouses and unduly cruel behavior toward female rivals. The "several degrees of creepy things" that the gods as a whole are recognized to encompass were realities that the Greeks and Romans acknowledged and dealt with daily in their human world and thus had origins in something greater than them.

And yes, Zeus was worse than Miroku. As a god, it's only fitting to be able to outdo any mortal - ask a spider sometime about trying to compete with Athena at weaving.

Buh. That was unduly long. Back on topic:

2.She almost certainly has ulterior motives for disliking Christianity. A further examination of said motives could bring about better developments.

This isn't necessarily true. It's entirely possible that the standpoint comes entirely from ignorance. Assuming that someone has an ulterior motive for an ignorant statement can start more trouble than the statement itself did. Ask a Muslim in a more fundamentalist country about ignorant cartoons of Muhammed sometime.

Ignorance is combated with education, not a blatant assumption about the person's characteristics or motivation.

[Syreth]

Christian Wiccans adopt the Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) or Jesus and Mary as their deities.

"Christian Wiccans" are by name only. God warns us several times in His word against such practices. If a person who has truly believed is a practicing wiccan, I think that God will do what He can to erradicate that sinful lifestyle by means of discipline. I don't want to strike up debate, I just felt that it should be addressed.

This isn't necessarily true. It's entirely possible that the standpoint comes entirely from ignorance. Assuming that someone has an ulterior motive for an ignorant statement can start more trouble than the statement itself did. As a Muslim in a more fundamentalist country about ignorant cartoons of Muhammed sometime.

Ignorance is combated with education, not a blatant assumption about the person's characteristics or motivation.

I couldn't agree more. We shouldn't be making assumptions about the state of people's hearts. We should give them to God in prayer, asking God to draw them to Himself.

[ducheval]

While many can point to Forgiveness, Compassion, and Generosity as christian values, the far more visible 'christian values' sadly are hate. Example, Fred Phelps.

No, he's not the majority. He is however, loud.

And he also does represent a majority christian viewpoint which simply cannot morally reconcile myself, mainstream christianity's strong stance against homosexuality/homosexual marriage.

THAT particular value is hateful, sad, and very very outdated.

[Steeltemplar]

While many can point to Forgiveness, Compassion, and Generosity as christian values, the far more visible 'christian values' sadly are hate. Example, Fred Phelps.

No, he's not the majority. He is however, loud.

And he also does represent a majority christian viewpoint which simply cannot morally reconcile myself, mainstream christianity's strong stance against homosexuality/homosexual marriage.

THAT particular value is hateful, sad, and very very outdated.

You're right, he's not the majority. In fact, he's not even a significant minority. He and his like form a portion of the Christian population (or those who claim to be Christian) that is so small as to be insignifcant.

He is obviously a nutcase. Besides his unchristian view on homosexuals, he also attacks Catholicism with similarly absurd flare.

Clearly, he is rejected and isolated from the vast majority of Christians. And since this is the case he is not a valid example of anything to do with actual Christian doctrine.

Truthfully, as "loud" as Phelps may be, he would not be famous if people did not give him the spotlight. And it is not Christians who are doing that.

As for the issue of homosexuality, this site has a rule against theological debate, so I would not engage you on it at length. However, understand that Christians who actually follow the teachings of our faith do not hate homosexuals. We have a strong belief that homosexuality is wrong, but what we wish of the people who commit this sin is simply repentence of it, for their own sake more than any other reason. And we do not wish to have society force the idea that this sin is acceptable upon our children. That does not mean that we hate homosexuals. Tolerance and acceptance are not synonymous, as the current day trend seems to wish to imply.

[GhostontheNet]

The Greek gods (Zeus and Hera mentioned here) are personifications of the great forces at work in our world. They become human-like so that we as humans might better understand and work with them. Zeus (the Father and Patriarchy) and Hera (the Mother and Matriarchy) are born of Chronos (Time and Age) and Rhea (Motherly Wisdom). Chronos and Rhea were both born of Uranus (the Heavens) and Gaia (the Earth). Attributes associated with each god or goddess are those found to be dominated by that principle - men and the patriarchal world, for example, have long been associated with the concepts of taking multiple women and other "daring" escapades, while women have been long associated with cunning, jealous possessiveness of spouses and unduly cruel behavior toward female rivals. The "several degrees of creepy things" that the gods as a whole are recognized to encompass were realities that the Greeks and Romans acknowledged and dealt with daily in their human world and thus had origins in something greater than them.

It doesn't seem to me that the Greeks themselves would have understood their gods as mere personifications - sounds to me more like a back-projection from the future. I would be curious as to the lovely allegorical lessons we could learn from Eris tossing the golden apple in the congregation of the gods with Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite squabling about just who is in fact the most beautiful amongst them, resulting in a really bloody war fought over one woman.