Japanese Language Help...

[Shia Kyosuka]

Those who are experienced in speaking japanese... LEND ME YOUR HAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!

o.o

ok, now that you're listening, I have some questions...

Watching subbed-anime has really helped with my japanese studies... but, While listening to them, and watching the subtitles, I noticed some things that I found interesting...

Sometimes, the characters drop sentence particles... like.

"anta bukimi!" means "You're weird!"

What's up with that...? When exactly can that be done?

I always thought "wakanai" was "I don't understand," but Chii said "Wakaranai" instead.

I thought... that when a verb ends in "ru" the "ru" is dropped and the conjugation is put in in its place...?

I hardly ever hear the sentence particle "wo." ... why not? or is the character simply blending wo being so used the speaking japanese, that someone who is still new to hearing the japanese language can't catch it in most cases?

I don't understand the sentence particle "kara" at all. Could somebody please tell me why and how it should be used?

kedo is a word I hear alot... but kedo means "but" doesn't it? Why are characters slipping that at the end of their sentences and the subtitle doesn't say "but" AND they don't say anything afterwards...?

like... they'll say it after the particle "desu" like "desu kedo" or the informal "da" like "da kedo."

Ok, so let's say one wanted to say their bored or scared. Tsumaranai means "boring" and kowai means "scary".

But, in an episode of Naruto, Kid Sasuke says "kowai... Boku wa kowai yo!" and that means "I'm scared.... I'm scared!"

Does the word "Kowai" mean scared instead of scary depending on use...? and It so, then does the same go with the word "Tsumaranai (boring)?" Can Tsumaranai mean "Bored" if used differently?

In an episode of Monster, a patient appearantly saw some monster, and the star character asked if he could talk. What the patient said was something like "bakemono ga... kuru". (sorry, I can't remember exactly what he said. I'll have to watch the episode again) That meant "The monster is... coming..."

Well... all he used was the word "kuru". It wasn't in its progressive form. Why was he able to do that? Was he really saying "The monster come?"

I've got more questions, but can't think of them right now.

Thanks. ^_^

[ishy]

Well, the first thing you've got to know is that anime is not the place to find proper Japanese. There is a lot of slang. And just like in English, there is a tendency to drop things and make a sentence shorter. Like particles, articles, nouns, verbs, or whatever else is handy.

You asked a bunch of things, and I would have to hear some of them to be sure (like kuru), so I'll just pick a couple:

"wakaranai" means "I cannot decide" more than "I don't understand/know".
http://japanese.about.com/blpod122000.htm

"kedo" is a good question, and it seems its used a lot like ano
"In many cases when "kedo" is used at the end of sentence, the original meaning "but" fades away, and it simply functions as a softener to avoid an abrupt remark."
http://japanese.about.com/blqow1.htm

Not sure about kowai, but I think it is not the adjective "kowai" but the verb "kowagaru"

[Shia Kyosuka]

Heh... I'm not looking for proper japanese. That's what the listening excersizes on japanese-online.com are for.

When I listen to subtitled anime, I think of that as a sort of "real life" listening excersize. I listen to subtitled anime when I want to learn how people who actually live in Japan and have everyday conversations talk.

Now, Sasuke actually did say "kowai" instead of "kowagaru." That's why I'm so confused about that.

EDIT: I just watched that part of the episode again. Kid Sasuke says "Kowai.... Kowai!" and the subtitle says "I'm scared... I'm scared!"

Is he literally saying "Scary... Scary!"?

I'll have to cut out that part of Monster for you, so you'll see what I'm talking about, I guess.

oh and... Wakaranai... ok. But still. Chii still did mean "I don't understand" when she said "Wakaranai". I think Sado in Bleach also said "Wakaranai" and meant "I don't understand" as well.

[shooraijin]

No, it really is 'kowai' (scared, afraid) -- there's a character in Urusei Yatsura (Mendoo) who's afraid of the dark and whenever he gets locked in a closet, you hear, "Kurai yo! Semai yo! Kowai yo!!!" (It's dark! It's cramped! I'm scared!) For that matter, 'urusai yo!' literally means "That's/you're annoying!" but really comes out as, "Shut up!"

Japanese doesn't have to use the progressive tense to indicate an action in progress (Spanish is another language like that), so it's entirely valid to use 'kuru' by itself.

Also, in casual Japanese, a lot of particles get dropped, even "mandatory" ones like 'ga' and 'wa' as long as it can be understood from the context. Btw, 'wo' is never pronounced 'wo' -- it's only spelled that way. In speech, it's 'o'.

Give an example of where you found the use of 'kara' confusing.

[Arnobius]

Also, keep in mind there are regional pronunciations (for example, the Tokyo dialect tends to pronounce "hi" as "sh" hito pronounced as sh'to) and even flubbed lines (I've heard an actor say "da nai" instead of "ja nai") where syllables get swallowed up

As for 'wo', ( を ) I have heard it pronounced 'wo', but only in songs, where they enunciate every syllable. It is unusual because it is *supposed* to be "o". I also saw it used as 'wo' in a reprehensible Gainax anime called "Oruchuuban Ebichu" where part of the episode title was supposed to be "woah woah woah woah" and they just rendered in speech and in text on screen as をををを. Bizzare. So I guess the rules can be broken

[Shia Kyosuka]

oh, heh, I know "wo" is usually pronounced "o." But, I'm saying, I don't hear it so much.

Here's "Kara" in song.

sora wa hate shinaku aoku sunde ite
umi wa kagiri naku koudai de ite
kimi wa itsumade mo egao de ite janai to nai chau kara

means

the sky is limitless and blue
the sea is endlessly large
to you, please remain smiling or else I’ll cry

o.o Where does kara come in? Why is it in there?

[Lynx]

in japanese it's acceptable to drop the subject or even the object of the sentence as long as the context is clear.

[Aka-chan]

Kara has a variety of meanings, though, as you have said, it usually means "because". However, keep in mind that a verb ending in "te" followed by "kara" means "after s/he/it/I [verb]ed." So "Ban gohan o tabetekara terebi o mita" is "I watched TV after I ate dinner.

Kara as "because" can be used conversationally when one trails off, perhaps more like "so." For example, if you were asked why you don't study French, you could answer "Suki ja nai kara..." [Because I don't like it... or I don't like it, so...] That's not a complete sentence, but in Japanese, one often doesn't say what doesn't need to be said. If it's understood, you don't need a complete sentence answer.

I'm not entirely sure of the specifics of the song lyrics you posted. Are there lines after those? I can spend more time taking it apart if there aren't, but, at any rate, some of it seems to be more poetically translated rather than being quite literal. Translators (including myself at times) will do this because our aim is to communicate the mood and such of the original rather than to translate it word for word, which might end up sounding unnecessarily awkward.

[Shia Kyosuka]

here's the whole song. harumonia.

Nee kikoe masu ka?

Sora wa hate shinaku aoku sunde ite
Umi wa kagiri naku koudai de ite
Kimi wa itsumade mo egao de ite janai to nai chau kara

Mawari o mimawasa naku temo mou iin da yo
Kono te no naka ni wa minna ga iru kara

Naki taku natte nige taku natte
Shiawase o wasure teu shimatta ra mina utae
Hikari ga umare yami ga umare ta futatsu wa hitotsu
Harumonia kanji te terepashii

Kumo wa shiroku ukabi tasogare te ite
Ame wa kuroku ima mo nai te iru wake janai
Kimi mo miagere ba kizuku hitotsu no chokusen
Itsu shika kokoro hareruya

Kawaranai uta o sagashi te iru aa misosazai
Mienai ito de musuba rete ru mieru desho?

Samishiku natte kodoku no fuchi ni
Umore teru nara ima me o tojite mina utae
Hanare te tatte minna onaji basho
Yadori ki no moto
Harumonia kanjite terepashii

Nee kikoe masu ka?

Ume miru hito e negai o komete
Shiawase o todoke ni doko made mo mina utae

Shiawase o wasure te shimatta ra mina utae
Hikari ga umare yami ga umare ta futatsu wa hitotsu
Harumonia saigo no terepashii

Nee kikoe masu ka?

in english

can you hear me?

the sky is limitless and blue
the sea is endlessly large
to you, please remain smiling or else I’ll cry

you don’t have to look around now
because everyone are in these hands

wanting to cry, wanting to run
if you forget happiness then sing
light was born and dark was born, the two is together
feeling harmonia, telepathy

the cloud is white and drifts aimlessly
the rain isn’t black and crying anymore
when you look up, you’ll notice that single line
someday, the heart calls hallelujah

the wren that searches for an unchanging song
can you see that we’re all connected with an unseen thread?

feeling lonely, at the brim of being alone
if you’re buried, close your eyes and sing
even if we’re apart, on that same land,
under that mistletoe
feeling harmonia, telepathy

can you hear me?

to that dreamer, with love
I will deliver happiness to wherever so sing

if you forget happiness then sing
light was born and dark was born, the two is together
the final harmonia, telepathy

can you hear me?

another question.

There are other sentence particles besides wa, ga, wo, kara, de, ni, ne, no, and yo.

There ones I'm talking about are: zo, ja, na, naa, ze, and stuff like that.

what do these mean?

[shooraijin]

na (naa) is a dialectical form of ne.

ze and zo tend to be rough or brusque/impolite endings, like "iku zo!" (Let's GO [implied: you slowpoke!, etc.]!)

[Shia Kyosuka]

really?

I hear "ikuzo" in anime all the time. It seems to be just taken as a casual form of ikimashou... It's probably slang. :/

hm....

anyway, I figured out why "I don't understand" is "wakaranai" instead of "wakanai".

You only remove the "ru" in verbs that end with "eru" or "iru". That verb ends with "aru" so it was conjugated as "aranai".

[Arnobius]

na (naa) is a dialectical form of ne.

ze and zo tend to be rough or brusque/impolite endings, like "iku zo!" (Let's GO [implied: you slowpoke!, etc.]!)

?
consulting "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar", I have Na as a very blunt negative command for men (women would be expected to use 'nai de kudasai')

For example, "Urusai na!" (don't be noisy or "shut up")

really?

I hear "ikuzo" in anime all the time. It seems to be just taken as a casual form of ikimashou... It's probably slang. :/

hm....

anyway, I figured out why "I don't understand" is "wakaranai" instead of "wakanai".

You only remove the "ru" in verbs that end with "eru" or "iru". That verb ends with "aru" so it was conjugated as "aranai".

Well, anime can be more exagerated than speaking in real life. One of the earliest versions of 'you' I learned from anime was 'kisama' but it's one you don't use in polite converstion, so using "iku zo" can be used instead of a more polite form and gotten away with in anime

Concerning 'Wakaru': Actually with some verb conjugations you would just cut the -u, hence wakaranai. My sensei had a great way of teaching conjugation which can only be used if you know the roumaji (it can't be done in hiragana), which I'm a bit rusty on the details. Basically, you would need to see whether the -u and the -masu forms had the same root (in this case wakaru and wakarimasu would have a root of wakar- which the suffix would be added)

There would be 3 classes of verbs:
1) Ending in either -u, ru, bu, nu, ku, gu, tsu
2) Always end in -iru or -eru
3) Irregular (Suru, Kuru and Iku)

unfortunately I'm a bit rusty on the details at 445am

[shooraijin]

Yeah, but remember (I can't think of the character) this one mother figure in Urusei Yatsura who had something to do with fire? She kept popping up and something would happen which would confuse her, and she would say, "Okashii na ..." (That's so weird)

Plus, with "Urusai!" I've heard it more *without* the 'nai' or whatever -- again, Urusei Yatsura (how appropriate) has this a lot.

So maybe the expression has some flexibility, na?

[Mithrandir]

To throw in what little I know, "anta" (from your first example) is the contracted form of "anata" and is typically reserved for more informal relationships. For example, my friend's wife (who grew up in a japanese home) refers to her sister as "anta" and her husband as "anata." She also refers to me as "anata" when we converse in nihongo. In not-so-many words she has told me it's a term of enderment for people she's known a long time.

FWIW.

[Shia Kyosuka]

I'll add one more question.

In the lyrics of the song I gave earlier in this thread, something interesting happens to some of the adjectives. They end in "ku" instead of the letter i (ie: aoku instead of aoi).

Why?

Oo! Here's another!

I don't really understand the use of the verb conjugation "nda" (ie: surunda and stuff like that).

When is that used?

[Aka-chan]

"zo"-emphasis, similar to "yo" but used by guys
"ja"-equals "de wa", can mean "well then" or used as a transition
"na/naa"-usually used like "ne", more conversation. Also, as AnimeHeretic said, if added to the end of the dictionary form of a verb, it can be a strong form of "don't." ("Miru na!"="Don't look!") Actually, "urusai" isn't a verb, it's an adjective, so "urusai na" means more like "you're SO noisy..." which comes across as "shut up"
"ze"-probably you're hearing "zo"; I've never seen "ze"

As for things ending in "ku", when you want to change an adjective into an adverb, you take the "i" off and put in "ku". For instance, fast is "hayai", run is "hashiru"--to "run quickly" is "hayaku hashiru". If the adjective doesn't end in "i", add a "ni" instead and don't take anything off. For instance: "shizuka ni yomu" "to read quietly".

"nda" is the same as "no desu." Technically the "no" in this case is a nominalizer, and it gets used a lot conversationally. "Aitsu wa urusainda naa" would be translated as "That guy's so noisy...", but more precisely means "That guy's a noisy one..." It doesn't always have much effect on the meaning of the sentence.

[shooraijin]

Doh, yes. It would be urusakunai, wouldn't it?

I think I need another Dr Pepper.

[Shia Kyosuka]

Ah!

You guys are so helpful!

^_^

Thanks!

I can't think of any other questions at the moment besides:

Alot of words I find in song lyrics are not found in the japanese dicionary. But that's probably because the people who write them out are writing japanese words as one word.

[Arnobius]

[quote="shooraijin"]Yeah, but remember (I can't think of the character) this one mother figure in Urusei Yatsura who had something to do with fire? She kept popping up and something would happen which would confuse her, and she would say, "Okashii na ..." (That's so weird)

Plus, with "Urusai!" I've heard it more *without* the 'nai' or whatever -- again, Urusei Yatsura (how appropriate) has this a lot.

So maybe the expression has some flexibility, na? ]
Oh yes, Ten's mother. They did speak with a kansai dialect, like Osaka in Azumanga Daioh and the cast of Abenobashi. That's fine. I just thought your original post was saying 'this is what it means', and I was suprised since normally in anime I hear the urusai na.

Of course with Urusei Yatsura, I think the informal 'slangy' talk has changed since then... some 24-25 years since the anime began (wishes for a shin Urusei Yatsura)

[ShiroiHikari]

Alot of words I find in song lyrics are not found in the japanese dicionary. But that's probably because the people who write them out are writing japanese words as one word.

When people romanize lyrics, they often stick the particles on the ends of other words, which is really irritating.

Also, I guess they use more poetic words in songs that aren't exactly everyday speech, which is why you can't find them in the dictionary. Also, writers like Gackt will use kanji that can be read several different ways, like in Mirror.

[Tsukuyomi]

Whaaaa, my head hurts ^_^ I see alot of words in my anime lyrics that I can't seem to figure out. Can you guys help? Here's a list... wink.

Keredo
Kagayaite: Doesn't it mean "hurry" or something like that?
mono
Akiremenai (de)
Mistumete

Ok, I'm really bad of spelling, but I think you guys know what I'm getting at ^_^

[Aka-chan]

Alot of words I find in song lyrics are not found in the japanese dicionary. But that's probably because the people who write them out are writing japanese words as one word.

Also, there are a lot of forms in the words, which make it hard to find. For instance, you won't find "shiteiru" in the dictionary because it means "doing." You'd have to look under "suru" which means "do".

EDIT:
Keredo=but, however
Kagayaite=a form of "kagayaku" which means "to shine"
mono=depending on the kanji used, "person" or "thing"
Akiremenai (de)=from "akirameru", "to give up"; akiramenai=won't give up; akiramenaide=don't give up
Mistumete=from "mistumeru" which means "to gaze at"

[Myoti]

Okay, one particular thing I have STILL been having trouble with:
What exactly the articles 'de' and 'ni' are and when to use them.

I know 'de' is suppose to mean something like "at/in" as in it already is, while 'ni' is saying a motion towards something.


I probably have more questions but I can't recall them at the moment...

[Tsukuyomi]

Whoa, is that Luffy as a Saiyan? Ha, he looks cool but I do miss his scrawniness ^_^ Thanks for the help Aka-Chan. Here are some more words...

Natsuka
Haruka
Hanasanaide
daite
dake
unaku
kizutsu

I may be off on the spelling... sorry ^_^

[Shia Kyosuka]

Here's a new question.

In a song by shiina ringo, the first line is:

"dareka boku ni umai okashi wo"

The word "give" isn't in there, but it means:

"Someone please give me a tasty sweet."

Why's that? O_o

Also, could somebody tell me why in 'Harumonia' They're using adverbs instead of adjectives?

"Sora wa hate shinaku aoku sunde ite"

means:

"the sky is limitless and blue"

also, where does the word "shinai" fit in there?

shinai = (n,adj-no) (within a) city; local;

or

(n) (bamboo) fencing stick;

shinaku = adverb version of shinai, right? because, the word "shinaku" can't be found in my dictionary. O_O

[Aka-chan]

Okay, one particular thing I have STILL been having trouble with:
What exactly the articles 'de' and 'ni' are and when to use them.

I know 'de' is suppose to mean something like "at/in" as in it already is, while 'ni' is saying a motion towards something.

Hooookay… “deâ€

[Shia Kyosuka]

Ok....

Sunde = sumite, right? What does that mean? I can't find the meaning anywhere. O_o

Ite = Iru = to be or exist, right?

[Tsukuyomi]

Aya, sorry Aka-Chan. I meant to put "umaku" or something like that. Man, there's so much to hearn. Thank you for the help. As soon as I went home, I was like,"Wait, I already know what "daite" means ^_^ Thank you agen ^_^

[Aka-chan]

Ok....

Sunde = sumite, right? What does that mean? I can't find the meaning anywhere. O_o

Ite = Iru = to be or exist, right?

Sunde is from "sumu" which means "to reside".

You are correct on the "iru" stuff, though the "te" form does not necessarily equal the verb form.

Sao_Sakura, "umaku" is from "umai" which means "sweet" or "skillful". You've seen it as an adverb, most likely.

[Tsukuyomi]

There's so many words and their forms to it. It's so confussing. Most of them I wonder about is from anime lyrics. Hey, what does "afureru" mean? What does "tada" meam?