People don't really understand...

[dreamhacker]

I've noticed most non-christian people haven't understood the part where you don't get to hell for sinning, as long as you believe in Jesus. It's like "Now you sinned, you're going to hell!"...Anyone else noticed this?

And people think that what the OT says is as important/right/counting as what is said in the NT. I mean, the Bible don't really encourage slavery for an example, even though it wasn't wrong in the OT time, it doesn't fit with Mar 12:31...Right?

[Cap'n Nick]

Poor dear. Has someone condemned you to hell lately?

[Htom Sirveaux]

This is why I always hesitate to use the word "religion" in lieu of "faith". Because of the general conception people have when they think of "religion": Chick tracts and Bible-thumping televangelists and the image of a wrathful, legalistic, unforgiving God. Often times, people completely miss the point of grace, thinking that God only has time for those who deserve it. The best thing you can do to dispel this myth is just to be the real, genuine you, don't be afraid to disclose your own imperfections, and be the best example of an honest, non-stereotypical Christian that you can be. These people can tell if you're like them and yet somehow not like them in a way they want to know more about. I was talking to a non-Christian guy at work once and we somehow got on the subject of spirituality. I mentioned that I was a Christian. He said "Oh. So then, you praise God every minute of every day, huh?" I replied, "Yes. I also hate f*gs, have an extensive collection of Chick tracts and think 'The 700 Club' is the greatest thing on TV." He did not expect this sort of blunt, obvious sarcasm and it made him want to hear about Christianity from a Christian's point of view. He's not working there anymore, but I like to think I made an impact on his life by shattering his preconcieved ideas of what it means to follow Jesus.

[dreamhacker]

I'm condemned to hell daily...Just because I'm christian, people like to tell me I go to hell each time I do something that might be a bit wrong, and it's annoying =\
Wish people wouldn't be so mean to me just for being christian

[dreamhacker]

http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=461&page=128
Anyone care to aid me in this religion thread?

[Htom Sirveaux]

It seems like most of this guy's argument is derived from what he knows of the Old Testament. He says he hasn't read the New Testament yet, but when he does, he will find that God is a lot less wrathful and, for lack of a better word, smite-happy now that grace has become a key element in the Christian faith.
An example can be found here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/an-eye-for-an-eye

[Ingemar]

http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=461&page=128
Anyone care to aid me in this religion thread?

Ignore internet counterevangelists. The forum is a medium for advocating hostile ideas while simultaneously insulating oneself from reason and open debate.

[Htom Sirveaux]

Yeah, Ingemar has a better idea. Don't let yourself get dragged into theological debates unless you know exactly how to answer every question.

[Steeltemplar]

Ignore internet counterevangelists. The forum is a medium for advocating hostile ideas while simultaneously insulating oneself from reason and open debate.

I agree with Ingemar on that. For one thing, 90% of all debate on the internet is based entirely upon anecdotal evidence or evidence that is poorly sourced at best.

Besides which, if you follow Godwin's Law, as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. I always found that interesting. I wonder if it is true. Anyway, the point of my mentioning it is that online debate has a tendency towards ridiculous vitriol.

[livewire]

aftr reading several pages from that post...I think we should all just pray that God opens the eyes of those people....
I have never been good at theological debates...and I agree with Ingemar....
but, I think that prayer would be a good thing...definitely...

[Shepherdmoon]

As an atheist i think if you want to debate go to a place for debates because i did not see any good arguments there.

[Ingemar]

That is because this forum does not encourage debate. TheologyWeb is a more appropriate place to do so, and there is a fairly large number of intellectual atheists (as well as people of widely diverging religious beliefs).

[Shepherdmoon]

That is because this forum does not encourage debate. TheologyWeb is a more appropriate place to do so, and there is a fairly large number of intellectual atheists (as well as people of widely diverging religious beliefs).

Yes that is the place to go!

[tripperdan99]

This is why I always hesitate to use the word "religion" in lieu of "faith". Because of the general conception people have when they think of "religion"

That's the reason I once stated that "God hates religion" And most any truth taken to an extreme becomes a lie. As SpoonyBard mentioned it's about "Faith" I would add also, it's about RELATIONSHIP

Calvin Miller did a trilogy poem once called the Singer. One of the most impacting quotes that stuck me was:

Major Premise: God is Traditional
Minor Premise: A tradition is an old old habit
Conclusion: God is an old old habit

When me move out of Relationship with the Father, God becomes that conclusion to us through religion.

I guess I would encourage you on this, Jesus most often ministered to those who came to seek HIM out. My grandmother would often say, "One convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"

A darkened heart is a sad sad thing.

td99 (Pr 3:7)

[Nate]

That's the reason I once stated that "God hates religion"

I disagree with that almost 100%, though. As stated in your welcome thread, the word "religion" means:

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

Since I don't think you'll find a single Christian on this board that says that they don't believe that God is the Creator and Governor (King) of the universe, then yes, we all follow a religion in the strictest sense of the word. Definition 3 also says:

3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

Since we follow the teachings of Jesus, who is God as well as a spiritual leader, we are a religion in that sense of the definition too.

I wonder where this distaste to the word "religion" comes from, and I can think of two sources, one of which I agree with (though it is ludicrous) and one I absolutely loathe and despise. For the sake of unity, I will not post those two sources here, though I am willing to state what they are in PM.

At any rate, my worry is that without an established religion, then Christianity becomes nothing more than another New Age fad. It's all about how you feel rather than following the guidelines set forth by your elders or priests. God becomes a feeling, and that is very dangerous.

I think faith without religion is dangerous. Knowing what you believe and why you believe it is a very important thing, and the church can help mold and shape that belief. Going on what you feel isn't the best way to go about things. Now obviously the other side of the coin, religion without faith, is equally dangerous (probably even moreso), so I think you have to have a good balance of religion and faith. Indeed, your religion should BUILD your faith. If your religion is not building your faith, you need to find another church.

[Myoti]

Relationship = good
Religion = good
Putting too much on religion/traditions = bad
Relgious forum debates = bad
Showing non-believers the love of Christ and what being a Christian is really about = Priceless

For somethings, there's religious knowledge. For everything else, there's MyChrist. ;D

[Nate]

Dude, that was...beautiful. XD

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

CAA is good except you can't debate. TheologyWeb is full of people who are incredibly intellectual and know their stuff well so it's hard to debate there. I wish there was a inbetween medium for us people who like to debate (politely) but also don't have a mega intelligent brain!

[Shepherdmoon]

CAA is good except you can't debate. TheologyWeb is full of people who are incredibly intellectual and know their stuff well so it's hard to debate there. I wish there was a inbetween medium for us people who like to debate (politely) but also don't have a mega intelligent brain!

If only there were such a place.

[tripperdan99]

I disagree with that almost 100%, though.

I think faith without religion is dangerous.

Excellent and I applaud your statement. It's sort of like in Gundam SEED were each side desired the same outcome, yet were at war (which we are not!!) I just ponder the results of man's results with "religion"

If you have the Word and don't have the Spirit, your Dry Up.

If you have the Spirit and don't have the Word, you Blow up.

If you have the Spirit and the Word, you grow up.

God, imho, is a God of Balance and order. Man is a creature of habit. My statement of "God hates religion" comes mainly from how Jesus spoke to the current day leaders of His day.

What is it that will move hearts today? In this world of sensory overload, can anyone have the chance to hear that still small voice? I'm in people's homes often, I've never gone in a home where the TV wasn't on. I've never rode with someone who didn't have the radio blarring. Everyone is running around like Johnny Five Alive looking for Input but missing the True power source.

I seek the shock of the statement, hoping if only for one to ponder the reason of why or why not. Just to simply think ((which, in my humble opinion, is one of the hardest task to undertake))

Just possibly, there is value in that. I hope so.

Shalom and may you prosper greatly.

Oh, Myoti, bravo! Very kwel dude.

td99

PS I would not consider this thread a debate as much as a friendly dialoge.

[Slater]

Religion is great, but if you don't have a heart of worship and don't put your faith in Christ, then you are a finely made coffin, which is very beautiful on the outside and rotting with death within.

Jesus put it somewhere along those lines. Whether or not you're "religious" isn't as important as what's in your heart. The thief who died with Christ in crucifiction didn't have much "religion" to lean upon, but because his heart worshiped Christ in those final moments of life, Jesus said that he would be with Him that day in paradise. In contrast to that man were the Pharisees who knew the first 5 books of the Bible (and a lot of them the whole OT) by heart and followed what God's word said very closely. In the end, Jesus cursed them because their hearts didn't follow their actions.

St. Paul was a Pharisee, and an extremely good one according to his account of himself. He called himself "a Hebrew of Hebrews", meaning something along the lines that he was the top 1% of the top 1% of the people in the entire world as far as being religious goes. But he says that in the end it was all vanity because his heart wasn't after the things of God as they should have been and that he didn't find true peace until he started following Christ.

So remember, faith is a seed. From that seed, other things (like religion) can sprout. If you have religion, but have not faith, you are like a potted flower whose life is cut off from the root and will wither away in short time, but if you have that seed of faith, then God can raise you up to be as mighty a tree as He has planned for you to be.

[dreamhacker]

Besides which, if you follow Godwin's Law, as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. I always found that interesting. I wonder if it is true. Anyway, the point of my mentioning it is that online debate has a tendency towards ridiculous vitriol.

LOL! The worst thing is that the law is really true (Hitler and Stalin was both dragged into this discussion at some point I believe )

Guess you people are right, I think I'll just declare myself as the winner of the discussion in that thread and ignore it from now on

[tripperdan99]

LOL! The worst thing is that the law is really true (Hitler and Stalin was both dragged into this discussion at some point I believe )

Guess you people are right, I think I'll just declare myself as the winner of the discussion in that thread and ignore it from now on

stares ... reads again...

humm... I forgot my vitimans today

td99

[dreamhacker]

I meant the other thread, om Ichigos, if there was any doubt about that

[Aka-chan]

To jump to the original question...

I'd say if people are "condemning you to hell", be willing to dialogue about it. They may not actually understand the truth, and excellent conversations can come at the most surprising times. Just resist the temptation to flaunt your knowledge. If they brush off your offers for conversations, then their intentions seem to be just to make trouble and to discourage you. Satan attempts this often and through many means. If that is the case, ignore their foolishness and maybe even try praying for them. After all, you can rest easy in the knowledge of what God really has in store for you.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

It's funny how some Christians don't even know their beliefs O.o

That one guy who responded to my post... It was an odd experience.

[Sweet Mercury]

CAA is good except you can't debate. TheologyWeb is full of people who are incredibly intellectual and know their stuff well so it's hard to debate there. I wish there was a inbetween medium for us people who like to debate (politely) but also don't have a mega intelligent brain!

Don't sell yourself short, the brain generally has limitless potential if we allow ourselves the time to harness it. If you feel intimidated by TWeb, don't. I'm certain you have a Bible, and you obviously have access to the internet, those are the only tools you need to discuss your religion.

[dreamhacker]

To jump to the original question...

I'd say if people are "condemning you to hell", be willing to dialogue about it. They may not actually understand the truth, and excellent conversations can come at the most surprising times. Just resist the temptation to flaunt your knowledge. If they brush off your offers for conversations, then their intentions seem to be just to make trouble and to discourage you. Satan attempts this often and through many means. If that is the case, ignore their foolishness and maybe even try praying for them. After all, you can rest easy in the knowledge of what God really has in store for you.

Mostly they just use what I say against me and comes with stupid arguements (and stupid arguements can be hard to counter ) and such. Dialouge doesn't work well =\
Guess prayer is the only thing that will help

[tripperdan99]

Always remember the source of your Significance.

td99

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Always remember the source of your Significance.

td99

Yes jirayia-sama! But uhh... what do you mean?