caffine is .....................evil

[Zilch]

Good heavens, you guys. Just each your green leafy veggies and ditch the caffeine.

Who're you, Jack Lalane? ;p

Just kidding. I honestly try to eat healthy, but...

...and I try to drink water, but...

...I just love caffiene. There. I said. I admitted it. I'm on the road to recovery!...or maybe just more Dew...

[TurkishMonky]

No, they were mg. I should clarify: I draw a distinction between therapeutic (um, for drugs in general), toxic, and lethal. A dose of >250mg of caffeine at a sitting is not lethal, but it is toxic (i.e., most people start to experience deleterious side effects in that range).

Also, the "150mg" was 150mg/kg, i.e., 150 milligrams per kilogram body weight. For the typical 70kg adult, this means a typical lethal dose would be around 10 grams or so.

oh, ok. thanks for clearing that up!

[Sennin]

I figure that as long as I don't overeat and stay away from the french fries in the cafeteria, I'll be fairly healthy. I tend to have a cup or two of tea or coffee about every other day. Though coffee probably has more caffeine, isn't soda supposed to be worse for one's health? I tend to avoid all soda with the exception of root beer.

[Scribs]

I once had 24 pieces of Jolt gum, 3 and a 1/2 Dews, and 2 Moxie energy drinks.

Moxie makes energy drinks? I did not know that.

[shooraijin]

Moxie makes energy drinks? I did not know that.

Moxie makes drinks that actually taste good? I did not know that.

[GrubbTheFragger]

Moxie makes drinks that actually taste good? I did not know that.

XD yea that was my first thoughts when i saw them but they are actually quite good

[livewire]

Though coffee probably has more caffeine, isn't soda supposed to be worse for one's health? I tend to avoid all soda with the exception of root beer.

If I remember what my health teacher said correctly....
The carbonation is soda is from Phosphorous...which, depletes the calcium from bones...if there isn't enough calcium in your boodstream....

IF I remember what she said correctly...

[The Last Bard]

Meh, I don't drink caffine anymore if I can help it. I prefer the caffine free sodas now; Root Bear, Cream Soda, Sprite, ect.
Of course, I'm not perfect, as I did go over to a friends house today and had some Dr. Pepper and Pepsi Wild Cherry.

[shooraijin]

If I remember what my health teacher said correctly....
The carbonation is soda is from Phosphorous...which, depletes the calcium from bones...if there isn't enough calcium in your boodstream....

IF I remember what she said correctly...

No, the carbonation is from carbon dioxide but it's true that there's phosphoric acid in many colas and soft drinks. However, caffeine is a much bigger offender to osteoporosis especially because of its diuretic effect.

[Mithrandir]

National Geographic did a fascinating article a while back about Caffiene, and I remember reading somewhere that the diuretic effects of caffiene were not common - or exaggerated. I don't have any more than this memory, though, so if anyone out there can expand on it for me, that would be great.

[Scribs]

[quote="shooraijin"]Moxie makes drinks that actually taste good? I did not know that. ]

They have moxie out there in CA? I thought it was a Maine thing. I do agree with you on the taste thing though.

[livewire]

[quote="shooraijin"]No, the carbonation is from carbon dioxide ]


Ack! I thought I had it wrong...
lol...I guess we all know why I got a D in my health class, eh?

[Zilch]

Moxie makes drinks that actually taste good? I did not know that.

Yeah, I was doubtful at first, but DANG don't they give you a buzz!

[Jack Bond]

I heard too much soda in general can eat the lining of your throat.
Besides that, I don't mind caffine. Just, I like Mountain Dew too much to pass up. Caffine doesn't seem to affect me that much.

[Mave]

I remember reading somewhere that the diuretic effects of caffiene were not common - or exaggerated.

So far, the vibe I'm getting is you're fine if you consume enough calcium on a regular basis, moderate your caffeine intake (defined as one cup a day) and are not over a certain older age range .

#1) Heaney RP. "Effects of caffeine on bone and the calcium economy." 2002. Food Chem Toxicol. 2002 Sep]

Caffeine-containing beverage consumption has been reported to be associated with reduced bone mass and increased fracture risk in some, but not most, observational studies. Human physiological studies and controlled balance studies show a clear but only a very small depressant effect of caffeine itself on intestinal calcium absorption, and no effect on total 24-h urinary calcium excretion. The epidemiologic studies showing a negative effect may be explained in part by an inverse relationship between consumption of milk and caffeine-containing beverages. Low calcium intake is clearly linked to skeletal fragility, and it is likely that a high caffeine intake is often a marker for a low calcium intake. The negative effect of caffeine on calcium absorption is small enough to be fully offset by as little as 1-2 tablespoons of milk. All of the observations implicating caffeine-containing beverages as a risk factor for osteoporosis have been made in populations consuming substantially less than optimal calcium intakes. There is no evidence that caffeine has any harmful effect on bone status or on the calcium economy in individuals who ingest the currently recommended daily allowances of calcium.
[B]
#2) Packard, PT., Recker, RR. "Caffeine does not affect the rate of gain in spine bone in young women." 1995. Osteoporosis International. Vol 6 (2). 149 - 152. Osteoporosis Research Center, Creighton University, 601 North 30th Street, Suite 5766, 68131 Omaha, NE, USA.

The effect of nutrition and dietary caffeine consumption and physical activity on bone gain in women during the third decade of life was determined in a longitudinal, descriptive study of 145 healthy college-aged women. Estimates of caffeine and other dietary intakes were determined by repeated 7-day diet diaries. Measurements of bone mineral in the spine and total body mineral content were determined by dual-photon absorptiometry. Measures of physical activity were ascertained by physical activity monitor. The mean estimated caffeine, calcium and protein intakes for the young women students were 103±106 mg/day (mean /+- SEM), 831±334 mg/day (mean ± SEM) and 66±16 g/day (mean ± SEM) respectively. The median rates of bone gain were 5.9% for spine bone mineral content, 6.8% for spine bone mineral density and 12.5% for total body bone mineral. In a multiple regression analysis the significant predictors (+ or –) of the rate of gain were age (–), activity (+), calcium intake (+) and protein intake (–). Caffeine consumption was not associated with significant reduction in rates of bone gain. While calcium and protein nutrition affect bone gain in the third decade of life in women, moderate caffeine intake (one cup of coffee per day, or 103 mg) appears to be safe with respect to bone health in this age group.

#3) Massey LK, Whiting SJ."Caffeine, urinary calcium, calcium metabolism and bone." 1993. J Nutr. Sep;123(9):1611-4.

Oral doses of caffeine increase the urinary excretion of calcium, magnesium, sodium and chloride for at least 3 h after consumption. The hypercalciuric effect can be blocked by adenosine receptor agonists. The effect is proportional to dose per lean body mass and no adaptation to the urinary losses occurs with continuing consumption of caffeine. Uncompensated losses of calcium would be a risk factor for development of osteoporosis. Risks of osteoporosis due to caffeine consumption are reviewed. Comparison of data from epidemiological surveys and animal and human studies suggests that for younger adult women consuming adequate calcium, moderate caffeine intakes may have little or no deleterious effects. Increased urinary and intestinal losses may be compensated for by increased intestinal calcium absorption. However older women do not seem to compensate adequately to maintain their former calcium balance, especially when calcium intakes are below recommendations.

[TurkishMonky]

Awesome research, mave... better keep drinking my strawberry milk, just in case though, eh?

However ,as a testimonial, this thread has inspired me enough to do my next speech for speech class on caffiene pros and cons.

moderate your caffeine intake (defined as one cup a day)

hmm.. IMHO i don't quite agree with that - i'd say to keep it under 4-5 caffenated beverages a day... 1 cup is a bit harsh...

[Doubleshadow]

Fine investigating skills Mave. I thought it unlikely caffeine was responsible for bone loss directly. It seems to be merely a correlation of different lifestyle choices and requisite health sideffects.

[Mave]

You're welcome. Some of my daytime work involves literature review so Google Scholar is a tool I use frequently. Besides, I drink coffee enough to be concerned.

hmm.. IMHO i don't quite agree with that - i'd say to keep it under 4-5 caffenated beverages a day... 1 cup is a bit harsh...

Considering that the caffeine concentration varies from one cup of coffee/one caffeinated beverage to another (depending on how strong you choose it to be), perhaps the metric amount is a better quote. quote --> (103 mg)

I agree it may be harsh for some. The quote is merely a safe recommendation for the general population. Personally, I'm fine with one cup of coffee a day since that's what I'm already doing. XD

[TurkishMonky]

some more interesting caffeine facts (this thread is only 1 page behind )

- the "half-life" of caffeine in your bloodstream, that is, the amout of time it takes for the caffiene in your bloodstrem to be halved is approx. 4-8 hours for the average adult. That rate doubles in time for women who are pregnant or on birth control.

- I haven't been able to back this up, but a few sites said that the US imposes a 200mg per liter limit on caffeine.

- Additionally, i foud that the most common amount for a reasonable limit of caffeine was around 250-300 mg per day... whouch would be around 2 cups of coffee or 5 cans of pop. Engarde, Mave !

- a more extensive, but not quite as official list of caffeine contents in drinks nd candy can be found here:
http://www.energyfiend.com/the-caffeine-database/

- a small fraction of people will get caffeine intoxicated after as little as one cup of coffee.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

[quote="TurkishMonky"]Additionally, i foud that the most common amount for a reasonable limit of caffeine was around 250-300 mg per day... whouch would be around 2 cups of coffee or 5 cans of pop. Engarde, Mave ]

1... 2... but difference Besides wouldn't a "cup of coffee" be relative?

[TurkishMonky]

1... 2... but difference Besides wouldn't a "cup of coffee" be relative?

well, she also gave the definition of 103 mg for the cup of coffee. (however, my figure would be more like 2 1/2 cups, i suppose)

[Jaltus-bot]

ya my teacher told us about a kid who was surviving on caffiene pills during college exams, ... didn't sleep a wink for like a couple days in a row. Then, after that, she slept for like 2 days straight .... without getting up once.

I once was up for 61 out of 66 hours during finals. Nothing stronger than mountain dew, if that. Went to bed Thursday night and woke up Friday to go home.

Which is very strange considering caffeine is supposed to cure vascular headaches by constricitng blood vessels and decreasing blood flow to the brain.

That is so true for me and headaches. I wish Rockstar (delicious energy drink) came in smaller cans though. One of those is two servings and huge. A quarter can does substitute for excedrine on my headaches. I hope I never develop a tolerance to caffiene. I tend to drink one can of Rockstar or one with sometimes a second soda each day. Sometimes I drink sodas that don't have caffiene like black cherry or lemon-lime and sometimes just regular cola. Usually when I am at school I get a Dr. Pepper. I kind of like the chai tea latte at work though and the cafe mocha with almond.

[K. Ayato]

Caffeine has lost its effect on me. I ordered a cafe mocha after a Campus Crusade for Christ meeting so I could stay awake 'til midnight, and I know for sure it wasn't decaf, but I still kept yawning. That, and it didn't take long before I was asleep once I got home.

[Mave]

I haven't been able to back this up, but a few sites said that the US imposes a 200mg per liter limit on caffeine.

Quite possible but I suspect food companies are more limited by flavor profiles rather than health risks. Caffeine can get overwhelmingly bitter.

Additionally, i foud that the most common amount for a reasonable limit of caffeine was around 250-300 mg per day... whouch would be around 2 cups of coffee or 5 cans of pop. Engarde, Mave !

LOL Hmm....I'll agree. I think that paper was being highly conservative with their smaller recommended amount. But seriously, think about how much sugar you're taking in with those 5 cans of pop (not assuming diet varieities). XD

a more extensive, but not quite as official list of caffeine contents in drinks nd candy can be found here:
http://www.energyfiend.com/the-caffeine-database/

Try this for more info and caffeine quotes as well. http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures/caffeinebroch.cfm
http://www.cspinet.org/new/cafchart.htm