Are you a decent guy?

[Mugendai]

Well, Im 15. I do, for the most part, know who I am.

- loves jesus more than ANYTHING
Heh... Nope. (Non-christian.)

- does not view women as objects, does not approach a girl because she's "hot"
I do not. Women are clearly people and have equal rights, besides, my definition of 'hot' seems to be a bit different than most other peoples.

- does not need destructive habits to make himself whole
Nope. Completely clean, plan to remain that way.

- doesn't cuss, gentleman-like.
Cuss, yes. Though not in an offensive manner, but more of a "Im Rick James, -----. " sort of manner. (AKA, lighthearted and jokingly. ) And it depends on what you mean by "Gentleman-like".

[FadedOne]

Are you a decent guy?

^ yeah, I actually do make a decent guy. not perfect mind you, but decent. ^_^


as nit-picky as this is, Mugendai, you might do well to edit this

"but more of a "Im Rick James, -----. "

lol

[shooraijin]

Well, Im 15. I do, for the most part, know who I am.

- loves jesus more than ANYTHING
Heh... Nope. (Non-christian.)

- does not view women as objects, does not approach a girl because she's "hot"
I do not. Women are clearly people and have equal rights, besides, my definition of 'hot' seems to be a bit different than most other peoples.

- does not need destructive habits to make himself whole
Nope. Completely clean, plan to remain that way.

- doesn't cuss, gentleman-like.
Cuss, yes. Though not in an offensive manner, but more of a "Im Rick James, -----. " sort of manner. (AKA, lighthearted and jokingly. ) And it depends on what you mean by "Gentleman-like".

This is the second time I've had to warn you about your language. Knock it off or I'll be showing you the door.

[Kaligraphic]

>loves jesus more than ANYTHING

a.k.a. perfect. The love of God is formed by God in our hearts, so this isn't something that anyone can affect, and you really never know the idols that are in your heart until God shows them to you.

:FAIL:

>does not view women as objects

Define object. If a woman is not a commodity (i.e. a good exchanged in trade) then she cannot be compared or valued, and thus I would not be able to esteem any woman above any other. Thus, by perceiving relative value in women, and esteeming them accordingly, I would seem to fail this test.

:FAIL:

>does not approach a girl because she's "hot"

In other words, does not esteem beauty? bzzzt.

:FAIL:

>does not need destructive habits to make himself whole

Doesn't need (drinking, smoking, pyromania, etc.) or doesn't indulge? Sometimes you have to show someone that you're not "too good for them" before you can establish a connection.

:MAYBE:

>doesn't cuss

In other words, is unable to talk to the world? If I'm going to France, I need to speak French, right? And not some variant, but the French of France. So, if I'm going to the English-speaking world, shouldn't I speak the language of the English-speaking world? Otherwise, I'll never have any effect.

:FAIL:

>gentleman-like

Aristocratic "Fetch me my other butler, butler" - type gentleman? No. Opens doors? Sometimes. Speaks in a phony upper-class English accent? Usually not. Intermittently uses British spelling? Sure.

:MAYBE:

Hmm, four fails, and two maybes. Guess I don't qualify by your definitions.

[Mugendai]

You warned me, for saying... "Hell"? ... Since when was that offensive in the least? BITOCH I can understand, but HELL? Would you prefer I say heck? Actually, I dont care what you prefer. If ya'll are so uptight you cant even take someone saying hell in such a manner, then all ya'll are bound to do is annoy me.

Knock it off or I'll be showing you the door.

If you really want to, go ahead. Im not going to force you too, but if ya'll're really so uptight, then I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. If I do remain though, I plan to remain as a standard member.

[Stephen]

You were warned, and you ignored those warnings. Ta.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

If you really want to, go ahead. Im not going to force you too, but if ya'll're really so uptight, then I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. If I do remain though, I plan to remain as a standard member.

If you do plan to be a standard member; you, by signing up, agreed to the rules of the board. It is your responsibility to uphold these rules. If you do not like them, then you should not have joined. Since you have joined, you either A. Obey the rules or B. Leave. Or C. You will probably be burned by a mod. (Shooraijin IS a mod afterall)

[Stephen]

Moving back onto topic please.

[Lochaber Axe]

It is unfortunate, but generally the young adult male population of our society is just as you percieve. Many tally the women they "score" as if the girl was just a puppet. This comes from insecurity and peer pressure; it goes beyond lust into petty contests of determining the top dog in the high school.

Generally most of what your looking for doesn't exactly exist at your age. That is the definition of a "Christian Man". I'm nearly 20 and I'm still immature in many respects. Maturity comes from behavioral decisions and also experience. That is why the phrase "mature for his age" comes into being. Wait, and don't close yourself off.

Onto the test:

Loves God before anything- D. I know my weaknesses, and I'm fine nicking at them for the rest of my life.

Objectify Women- B. I may be celibate, but I'm not a eunuch. I look while at work because that is sadly the only time i get to see the opposite sex of my age (which is even then quite rarely). Man was created to be visual, and only a blind man can never look at a woman lustfully. Christian men are not meant to be completely lack of sin, but to be fighters of our sins. If a person treats me right, I will double their kindness to me whether male or female.

What you are asking is if we watch porn to be blunt, even just glance at the cover of newstand magazines (you know the ones) while checking out, or as a group make lewd jokes and even cat-calls at passing women. That is truly objectifying women, and most men would not do that. Some do have problems with porn, but that is an addiction and therefore not completely conscious. You can usually tell.

Destructive habits to make whole- A. I've never smoke or drank anything that wasn't sold to children as well. You don't even need to second glance guys like this. If you detest this behavior then you are much greater than your peers.

Idolatry and Addiction go hand in hand, because these siblings decieve us into thinking they will fill the holes of our hearts.

Note: The A is based upon the criteria and context of the question. Destructive habits at 15 is a lot different then 20. Playing Wow or being late to work are destructive habits to be serious.

Doesn't cuss- C. I work with people. I work in retail. Some customers are rude, consented, and bad-mannered. Sometimes, I'm the one who is just having the bad day and is mentally cursing just because of frustration. I was raised with a spank if I cursed and would never verbally call someone else the words, but it doesn't stop what I call them in my mind.

Gentleman-like- B. Again you are looking for a quality in the wrong age group. If a guy displays this in high school, generally it is for indecent purposes, or is just acting like himself.

On that topic, I think it is better if you don't continue finding faults in the guys around you and just try to find the guys who are Christian, true to themselves, and know their faults and work to fix them. Resenting the crude punks will just callous your heart.

[EireWolf]

[quote="KBMaster"]I'm not looking for a date or anything, just seeing if all men are pigs or not. ]
I haven't read this whole thread, but I will say this. When I was 15, I too thought, "all men are pigs." The problem with this sentiment was (a) the guys my age who were indeed pigs were not men, but still very much boys, and (b) the nice guys are usually harder to spot, because the pigs are so much louder than them.

Seriously, there are some good guys out there. (I married one. ) Wait about a decade, and some of the guys that resemble pigs now might just surprise you.

Oh yes, and might I add: Don't waste your time looking for the perfect man. He does not exist. Instead, trust God to bring you the man who He has made perfect for you.

[Lochaber Axe]

Oh yes, and might I add: Don't waste your time looking for the perfect man. He does not exist. Instead, trust God to bring you the man who He has made perfect for you.

*Nods head vigorously* Very, very true... for the guys as well. There is no concept as well as the perfect woman.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

- loves jesus more than ANYTHING
Let's just say God's still working on me

- does not view women as objects, does not approach a girl because she's "hot"
I sometimes have lustful thoughts as all guys do but I ask God to help me fight the temptation. I don't approach a girl just because they are hot. I still recognise beauty, but I'm more attracted to a kind heart and interesting personality and a Christian girl.

- does not need destructive habits to make himself whole
No

- doesn't cuss, gentleman-like.
I very occasionally swear when I'm really angry or have hurt myself (only the more minor words: h*ll, cr*p, but its still not good). I'm working on not swearing at all. I do treat girls with respect, yes.

[KBMaster]

GAH! I should've gotten on sooner so I could have specfied that I am talking about MEN, not 15 year old boys. I'm homeschooled and there's only two guys in my youth group. Don't come in contact with 'em much.
And... uhm... the ones who taught me men were pigs my mother and sisters. With good reason! But I won't get into that. I've also learned from experience. MEN taught me!
I wasn't looking for perfect, just Godly. I know NO ONE is perfect.

Oh yes, and might I add: Don't waste your time looking for the perfect man. He does not exist. Instead, trust God to bring you the man who He has made perfect for you.

Thanks. That is good advice. I mean, if I trust God, I won't end up with a, well, dirtbag.

[Mave]

I'm currently disappointed with men as a whole, which is evidently a result of a recent fallout. I'm almost convinced that my future husband will cheat on me, physically abuse me, or neglect his father's role. Pig is too nice a word to describe some men I've encountered in my life.

......


Honestly, I don't -want- to have this perspective but I admit that there's a small teeny weeny of me that's extremely angry and hateful towards men. I'm not saying that women are any better but my biggest wounds have come from guys. Still, Eirewolf, I'll do my best to take in your words, take a deep breathe, pray for my brothers and trust God with this.

For the guys of this thread, I think you're never too young to evaluate yourself as you grow up and strive to be a godly man. Gals, we all may be disappointed with people but it doesn't change the fact that God can do anything, including making our brothers mighty and holy so let's keep praying for them. May God continue to sanctify and mold all you guys into mighty and righteous men of God.

[Steeltemplar]

I think really what this is about is men who are serious Christians vs. men who are not. The latter are more likely going to be the "pigs" you refer to. The former are highly unlikely to be. I don't see how someone who is earnestly attempting to follow the precepts of Christianity could really be a "pig", since those precepts steer us not to be so.

I look at this thread and, honestly, I think you have a good selection of guys here who are not pigs.

And what about girls, anyway? I've had girls who wanted to go places with me we shouldn't before marriage. What am I supposed to think about that? I go to work and a great many women I know there fail the test you have put up for men. I'm not going to use those experiences to generalize about women, of course. What I am saying is that I think that refining this thread to men is really missing the point.

What we really should be saying is this: Christian women and Christian men need each other. Don't search for your love amongst those who are not serious about the faith. You are almost certain to be disappointed if you try.

[Yumie]

Wow, this is some semi-strong male bashing. You may not know any good guys, KB Master, but they exist. I know quite a few of them myself. So, I'm stickin' up for the dudes. Sure, they're not perfect, but neither are we.

[Kaligraphic]

Thank you, Yumie, for saying that.

You find what you look for, really.

[ashfire]

I would have to say that being raised in a different time and generation I would have to say I was told to be decent by my parents and to be nice to ladies. My father smoked but he told me not to start. If I drank I only had one and I couldn't stand to taste another drink. Drugs were happening around me but I didn't get involved.
I guess being in the fire dept as a young man worked on me because I had to be ready all the time to respond and I didn't need to be doing something that got in the way.
I have know others who womanizers and did some bad things in the fire dept but I didn't try to be like them.

[Steeltemplar]

Thank you, Yumie, for saying that.

You find what you look for, really.

I second that.

[CreatureArt]

I'm going with Yumi.

Myself.... I've recently discovered how sheltered I've been as a kid - especially in my holiday job this January, where I've had a few real sleeze-balls come in. Nothing overtly sexual-harrasment-ish, but suffice to say the direction of their eyes and subtle lewd comments are enough.

But balanced against this are the guys who I am friends with and many of the guys I've had crushes on. I believe that yes, guys and girls are different and can think in different ways (as well as express things and place different importance on different issues) and that this lead to some conflict. (Not that I'm implying anything of the sort has happened to you girls on here, just throwing it in for what it's worth).

To be honest, I also agree with Steeltemplar in his point that a lot of women can be undecent, too. Some of the friends I grew up with in school, much as I love them, have treated (and still treat) guys like objects and/or used them as a matter of course.

I guess the views of your family are very influential - and to be honest, if you've been very hurt by men its probably not going to help at all. But let me reassure you that there are a lot of lovely guys out there. I've met many on CAA and in real life.

If you're going to be disappointed, let it be with the entire human race. We are all incredibly fallen and often hurt others accidentally, deliberately or without even noticing.

I also understand what you're saying when you say that a decent guy "does not approach a girl because she's "hot"," but it depends on what approach you're referring to. People are invariably attracted to members of the opposite sex. Regardless of your gender, you will probably ask someone you find attractive to go out on a date with you (and attraction does NOT require magazine and model-like features. We're often too hard on ourselves to believe that we are in fact beautiful or handsome).

All men are NOT pigs. There are good men and bad men, just like women. A warning, though: if you constantly look for the negative, you WILL find it. Everyone does have their bad moments and days that make you think they're just horrible. God didn't offer his Grace because he found us good, or even because we were more good than bad. He just loved us. Grace doesn't excuse bad behaviour, but it does require that we forgive others for what they do to us. We ourselves have been bought for a price so large that it covers every concievable sin that we can do, would do, have done, are doing or that we could do.

...I got a bit off topic on grace (because I've been hit by how large God's grace is for us lately and how MUCH love He has for us)... but try to give guys a chance, girls, if you don't already. Giving them a chance doesn't mean that they won't let you down or that you let them do stuff to you, but that you don't immediately dismiss what is good because you find something bad in them.

Wow I hope that made some sort of sense.

EDIT: Oh, and I should probably say that I have met many, many terrific guys in my life. Many of them are incredible, just like many of the women I meet. There are differences in men and women but in the end we're all just people.

[Lochaber Axe]

I enjoyed your off-topicness on grace, Creature Art. You can't get enough of how good our Lord is, and how much men have to strive to be more like Him. There will be times, and probably have been times, where I've failed the women God put in my life. Sometimes, a guy will just not know.

Remember, true love equals sacrifice. If a man is willing to sacrifice for you, then also sacrifice for him, whether it be time, energy, or simply forgiving him. Men are human as well, we do get heart-broken just like you. The greatest thing you can give us is simply understanding and forgiving our faults.

Please don't keep that vase I accidentally broke two years ago over my head.

[Shia Kyosuka]

I'm going with Yumi.

Myself.... I've recently discovered how sheltered I've been as a kid - especially in my holiday job this January, where I've had a few real sleeze-balls come in. Nothing overtly sexual-harrasment-ish, but suffice to say the direction of their eyes and subtle lewd comments are enough.

But balanced against this are the guys who I am friends with and many of the guys I've had crushes on. I believe that yes, guys and girls are different and can think in different ways (as well as express things and place different importance on different issues) and that this lead to some conflict. (Not that I'm implying anything of the sort has happened to you girls on here, just throwing it in for what it's worth).

To be honest, I also agree with Steeltemplar in his point that a lot of women can be undecent, too. Some of the friends I grew up with in school, much as I love them, have treated (and still treat) guys like objects and/or used them as a matter of course.

I guess the views of your family are very influential - and to be honest, if you've been very hurt by men its probably not going to help at all. But let me reassure you that there are a lot of lovely guys out there. I've met many on CAA and in real life.

If you're going to be disappointed, let it be with the entire human race. We are all incredibly fallen and often hurt others accidentally, deliberately or without even noticing.

I also understand what you're saying when you say that a decent guy "does not approach a girl because she's "hot"," but it depends on what approach you're referring to. People are invariably attracted to members of the opposite sex. Regardless of your gender, you will probably ask someone you find attractive to go out on a date with you (and attraction does NOT require magazine and model-like features. We're often too hard on ourselves to believe that we are in fact beautiful or handsome).

All men are NOT pigs. There are good men and bad men, just like women. A warning, though: if you constantly look for the negative, you WILL find it. Everyone does have their bad moments and days that make you think they're just horrible. God didn't offer his Grace because he found us good, or even because we were more good than bad. He just loved us. Grace doesn't excuse bad behaviour, but it does require that we forgive others for what they do to us. We ourselves have been bought for a price so large that it covers every concievable sin that we can do, would do, have done, are doing or that we could do.

...I got a bit off topic on grace (because I've been hit by how large God's grace is for us lately and how MUCH love He has for us)... but try to give guys a chance, girls, if you don't already. Giving them a chance doesn't mean that they won't let you down or that you let them do stuff to you, but that you don't immediately dismiss what is good because you find something bad in them.

Wow I hope that made some sort of sense.

EDIT: Oh, and I should probably say that I have met many, many terrific guys in my life. Many of them are incredible, just like many of the women I meet. There are differences in men and women but in the end we're all just people.

*applause*

Thank You So Much!

[Da Rabid Duckie]

I'm currently disappointed with men as a whole, which is evidently a result of a recent fallout. I'm almost convinced that my future husband will cheat on me, physically abuse me, or neglect his father's role. Pig is too nice a word to describe some men I've encountered in my life.

.... GAH!!

*glomps Mave*

You needed that. :p

And CreatureArt, you're a saint. I'd also like to add something to what you said. Most people may not know this about me, but I haven't dated in six years. Now, it's a mixture of things... bad relationships, sacrificing for the sake of spirituality... a whole mess of stuff. But nothing taught me more about relationships than playing the part of an outsider. I've drawn the conclusion that what most people think of a relationship anyway is all a farce. It's definitely not something that younger people need to be thinking about anyway, but I can't say much more without going into a rant. If you do want to know more, there's an article that I wrote that actually spawned from a post that I made here two years ago. Here's the link if anyone wants it.

[CreatureArt]

*applause*

Thank You So Much!

And CreatureArt, you're a saint.

Thanks, LA. Recent circumstances and a book by Phillip Yancey (What's so Amazing About Grace?) have really helped to deepen my understanding and appreciation for God's grace - and to help me to realise that I will never fully know or appreciate it as it deserves.

Yeah, women fail guys also. I know how you feel. I agree with you about sacrifice. One tip I heard about going into marriage is not to go into marriage for yourself, to get something out of it. I guess if you go into it with the attitude that you love that person and will continue to act out love towards them regardless of what happens then hopefully you're on the right track. That's what is my aim is at the moment. I dont expect things to be always rosy with the man God has for me, but I am to love him and treat him as well as I can; to overlook his faults (as I hope he will overlook mine) and stick with him through thick and thin.

...off topic again, methinks. ^_^

EDIT:
I must have been writing this as you were writing your post, Duckie. In general, I tend to agree with the idea that many relationships are just a farce - I'm thinking of many of the relationships I've seen my (mostly non-Christian to be honest) friends go through. The things they do to each other and the way the treat the partner is often very shallow... good relationships have been the exception in these circumstances, but I can only make these conclusions from what I've seen; others may have seen different trends.
I guess if you look at the kind of relationships I'm talking about and judge them as true inter-gender relationships, you could well be disappointed and put off.

It may sound obvious, but that's part of the reason I've put off dating UNTIL I ACTUALLY FIND A GOOD GUY and, even then, until we're both ready and sure of God's say. A few of my friends have subtley tried to steer me otherwise, but they've mostly given up by now.

[KBMaster]

Thanks, everyone. I guess there are good guys out there. I just haven't been exposed to many. Ah, sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a guy-bashing thread. I was just wondering if I should consider marriage or rough it alone. I'm just afraid the guy I marry will turn out like some other guys in my life.
I didn't mean women were better in any way. I don't HATE men, I just don't trust them.
CreatureArt, thanks. Hopefully I can find some of those lovely guys and maybe it can help me to be reassured. ^_^
Thanks again, everyone.

[Sammy Boy]

Yeh I don't think KBMaster or any of the girls who posted their negative comments on guys intentionally "bashed guys". They were speaking their minds from what may be personal experiences.

Anyway, I think both guys and girls learnt something from each other, so that's all good.

[termyt]

Am I a decent guy? I don't know.

I think if you are looking for reasons why I can be called decent, you will find them.

I think if you are looking for reasons why I am a pig, you will find them, too.

My question is, what are you looking for when you look at a guy. Why is he decent? Or why is he a pig?

[Mave]

I apologize if I seemed like I was male-bashing as a whole. I was hoping to emphasize the alternative option in dealing with pain/disappointment in men who fail to be 'decent', which is forgiving people and placing their faith in God.

For the record, my disappointment extends to other women, myself and the rest of the world. Heh.

[mitsuki lover]

To be honest I would have to say I tend to be more like Miroku,except I don't go around flirting as badly as he does,I'm too introverted and shy to do that.
But am I decent...it depends on who you ask.

[Yumie]

Thanks, everyone. I guess there are good guys out there. I just haven't been exposed to many. Ah, sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a guy-bashing thread. I was just wondering if I should consider marriage or rough it alone. I'm just afraid the guy I marry will turn out like some other guys in my life.
I didn't mean women were better in any way. I don't HATE men, I just don't trust them.
CreatureArt, thanks. Hopefully I can find some of those lovely guys and maybe it can help me to be reassured. ^_^
Thanks again, everyone.

Oh, well, if that's the case, I would just say take any relationship with a guy very slowly so that you can be confident in the type of person he is before you actually tie the knot. If you spend enough time with the person, their true colors usually show through. Just don't rush it, or you might be in for some not-so-great suprises once you're married and he's not trying to constantly impress you anymore.