Another relationship thread? Incompatible with femalekind

[Bobtheduck]

usagi: We're so unlucky in love.
*snipped by bobtheduck*
Lukey: My friend (old college group leader) said that I should not try to advance a relationship just because I like a girl...
Lukey: he asked me about *snipped by bobtheduck*, and I told him the red flag, and he said I should really try to stay good friends with her without trying to take it any farther, because she could, on her own, decide something different later and she could also introduce me to her friends
usagi: Friendship is really important for a lasting relationship.
Lukey: Yeah...
Lukey: I know, but... I'm lonley... I mean, I'm looking for a Girlfriend... Should I try to hide that?
usagi: I think that you should appreciate a girl's friendship before you start to look for something more from them.
usagi: Jumping in can be bad. What if the person turns out to be a psycho?
Lukey: Yeah
Lukey: That's true
Lukey: but how long is long enough to wait?
usagi: I mean, you're still young.. you've got time.
Lukey: a month? 3 months? A year?
usagi: Well, I generally start falling for guys if I'm going to fall for them in the first 3-6 months.
Lukey: I mean, I know that girls want that, but at the same time I wouldn't hang out with a girl for a long time IRL if I didn't have some interest, in most cases, there are exceptions to that...
Lukey: And those exceptions usually stay exceptions, see
Lukey: Like a girl who had a BF before I met her, so I started a friendship with her with that in mind and it was fine... I never really had too much of an interest, other than I thought she was attractive and we liked similar things, but I never let myself get attatched emotionally because I knew she was marrying this guy
Lukey: And a friend that, which is really rare when I get to know girls IRL very closely, I had no real attraction to... We hung out a lot, and shared a lot of things, but I honestly didn't feel any attraction to her at all. That never really changed, except in moments of desperation and fear of being lonely forever. She was just a friend to me, and that's all she ever will be, I think... So, my friendships with single girls close to my age almost always have that hanging over them, and the ones that don't, never do.
Lukey: Unless something is established right from the beginning, like it was with *censored* and *censored*, that I won't be able to every form feelings for them, I don't ever form feelings, but if I go into a friendship with a girl beside that, at least one that gets deep (and this is IRL only mind you) then it is something there...
Lukey: *sigh* So, that's one of the reasons I was depressed
Lukey: I know the way I work, and it conflicts with female kind
(usagi signed off at XX:XX:XX PM)

Well, that's been the gist of my thought process (I would be "lukey" in that, obviously... I know, shock for all you newer members who thought my name was actually Bob... And the older ones who just forgot)

I want someone so bad, that hangs over any potential friendship with a single girl... Still, I know that girls HATE that... They want a friendship first... That is, if they could even consider something else EVER... And they won't consider something else EVER when I first start to get to know them, in the first few months, except a couple very rare situations (that was teen thinking, it changes in adulthood, for the females anyhow...) I will probably start to like a girl that I click with very soon. Maybe a few days of knowing a girl, those that I actually try to keep a friendship going with (with very few exceptions) I will probably start to like... That doesn't work, though, and I know it doesn't, but I can't be expected to lie or be fake about it either... Also, I've heard Dean Sherman's "Romantic feelings are a choice" spiel numerous times, but I can't seem to stop myself from having those feelings unless there is some definate no-no there (like she has a BF, is too old / too young for me, isn't a Christian, hates anime and games, etc) If there is potential and we click, I form feelings... If I try to stop myself, I end up being a Jerk to her...

It's just so frustrating there's this whole game behind it, and I can't play it... I want to find someone so bad, it will be even worse now... I mean, I'd like friends too... I'm just so lonely, I want a GF... One that will eventually be my wife... (sorry for the attitude, but for thsoe of you that will *snip* at me for thinking so much about this, stop now I don't care about your opinions if that's the case) It's so much that the girls I'd try to be friends with would back off because they can sense my feelings... I'm really obvious when I like a girl, so even if the girl may have started to like me at some point, because she knows I like her then it makes her uncomfortable and she backs off... This keeps me from even meeting new people because it would just start me on the road to rejection... This is killing me... Anyhow, I'm 45 minutes past my Bedtime... I need sleep... And scissors... 61...

[GhostontheNet]

Well, that's been the gist of my thought process (I would be "lukey" in that, obviously... I know, shock for all you newer members who thought my name was actually Bob... And the older ones who just forgot)

I want someone so bad, that hangs over any potential friendship with a single girl... Still, I know that girls HATE that... They want a friendship first... That is, if they could even consider something else EVER... And they won't consider something else EVER when I first start to get to know them, in the first few months, except a couple very rare situations (that was teen thinking, it changes in adulthood, for the females anyhow...) I will probably start to like a girl that I click with very soon. Maybe a few days of knowing a girl, those that I actually try to keep a friendship going with (with very few exceptions) I will probably start to like... That doesn't work, though, and I know it doesn't, but I can't be expected to lie or be fake about it either... Also, I've heard Dean Sherman's "Romantic feelings are a choice" spiel numerous times, but I can't seem to stop myself from having those feelings unless there is some definate no-no there (like she has a BF, is too old / too young for me, isn't a Christian, hates anime and games, etc) If there is potential and we click, I form feelings... If I try to stop myself, I end up being a Jerk to her...

It's just so frustrating there's this whole game behind it, and I can't play it... I want to find someone so bad, it will be even worse now... I mean, I'd like friends too... I'm just so lonely, I want a GF... One that will eventually be my wife... (sorry for the attitude, but for thsoe of you that will *snip* at me for thinking so much about this, stop now I don't care about your opinions if that's the case) It's so much that the girls I'd try to be friends with would back off because they can sense my feelings... I'm really obvious when I like a girl, so even if the girl may have started to like me at some point, because she knows I like her then it makes her uncomfortable and she backs off... This keeps me from even meeting new people because it would just start me on the road to rejection... This is killing me... Anyhow, I'm 45 minutes past my Bedtime... I need sleep... And scissors... 61...

I would complain that you didn't allow your friend much of a chance to get a word in edgewise, shifting the exact nature of the points made to cause that tricky choice of which points to respond to in an inadaquete fashion, then rushing to the quick conclusion of throwing your hands in the air in desperation at not having had your points answered, bespeaking a supposedly hopeless situation. Sure, romantic feelings may not be a choice exactly, at least certainly not in the immediate sense, but romantic actions are. The fact of the matter is, some guy running up to you acting like some kind of knight in shining armor ready to take you away forever immediately is generally bad news even if the guy really is a knight in shining armor rather than one more wolf ala the original written Red Riding Hood, especially if in a manner as hasty as the conversation seems to read. What your friend was trying to communicate in her own way was the crucial variable is building trust and trustworthiness, giving suggestions for how to actually go about this in reality rather than keeping it as some kind of far away abstract - although this is not the only way to build it. Think hard enough on it, and you will realize that most romantic gestures of any kind are emblems of trust and trostworthiness in their very nature - seen not least in ballroom dancing moves where one partner holds the other from falling down perhaps painfully. You want romance, someone to live with you all your days in all the sickness and sorrow and joy and hope and triumph you share together - then you build and show, and very very hopefully actually have, your trust and trustworthiness one step at a time, for such is the nature of romance anyway always and forever.

[Xeno]

I basically have to second what GhostontheNet said, you can't just rush in, it'll not only be uncomfortable for her, but very unhealthy for the relationship on any level. It's perfectly fine to become a girls friend based on an attraction, but you can't expect her to immediately become your gf, you have to have a period where you are mutual friends, and then build from there. I would know how it works, as I've rushed into a relationship, and then the relationship I'm in now, we slowly worked there, it worked out a lot better. Mostly, you don't need to be so worried you'll end up alone or anything like that, you'll find someone, everyone does, except those who don't want to find someone so they can complain and get attention. Things will work out for you, so don't worry too much about it, just lay back and take things as they come, it took me 17 years to figure that out and I hated life because it was so stressful, now I love it.

[Bobtheduck]

shifting the exact nature of the points made to cause that tricky choice of which points to respond to in an inadaquete fashion, then rushing to the quick conclusion of throwing your hands in the air in desperation at not having had your points answered,

Um... Yeah... I was really depressed last night. My mind was working fast. i wasn't "throwing {my} hands in the air in desperation at not having had {my} points answered", I don't know where you were going with that... I didn't do that at all. My statement was, through the course of that whole conversation "I know this, but I feel this" It never changed. And About not allowing her a word in edgewise, well... I dont' think that's true either... Besides that, that convo wasn't really the point of why I started this thread... What I said in it is...

As for the other answers, the "you can't rush in" I think I said basically I wasn't talking about asking a girl out after a week or something. Still, I did wonder about a legitimate time to wait, but even then that doesn't matter because it may not be long enough, or even worse I may have found myself attatched to that girl who will NEVER have romantic feelings for me... Still, I knew when I posted this I may regret it, but I do like torturing myself... whatever...

[Syreth]

Well, what I'm about to say might be contrary to the opinion of many, but here goes: God made you who you are, right? He knows you're struggling with this, and we can safely say that He wants to help you through this. In fact, He wants the very best for you (which might not be exactly what you want right now). But anyhow, you are who you are, and I think one day someone will cross your path that will love you for who you are, even if the majority of women are turned away by your straightforwardness (is that a word?). But you're not looking for the majority, are you? You're just looking for the one that you can spend your life with. That one will love you for who you are. If God is behind something, it will work out. I don't see anything inherantly sinful about being straightforward and wanting a fast commitment (although this isn't *necessarily* the wisest way to go) so who's to say that something like that can't happen? Of course, I don't know your heart. If there's something wrong with your heart, it might be a good time to reflect and change. Again, I don't know. We so want to formulize things like relationships, saying that it can only happen if we follow steps A, B and C, but it doesn't work like that. Be who you are. That's the only person you can be.

[Destroyer2000]

Yeah, I know how you feel. It kind of sucks, but I can't give any advice.

...haven't there been a lot of guy/girl threads lately?

[Mangafanatic]

Am I really the first woman to respond to this thread? Wow. *types fast*

Anyways, having seen many friends who were in the same situations as you are in, let me first say that I'm so sorry. I'll be praying that God will provide a means of escape from these feelings of loneliness.

Concerning relationships from a woman's perspective (or, atleast, from this woman's perspective), you're right about most women wanting a friendship before a romantic relationship. Part of the reason behind this, in my experience, is that a friend is often much more willing to reveal his/her bad points and weaknesses than a romantic interest would be. Women want to know who this person is before they commit to a relationship which might in turn lead to marriage. To a Christian Girl, marriage should be a life long commitment, and rushing into a life long comittment is often a set up for disaster.

I guess your question about "How long is long enough" really depends on you and the person involved. How much do you let a person into your life, on a friendship level? How honest are you about who you are? If you're the kind of person who's very open in a friendship, chances are that the person you're interested in will more sure more quickly if you're "the one" (Or "the two", as I prefer.)

And, truth be told, if you're interested in a girl, that's okay. You can be friends with a girl whom you consider marriage potential. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem occurs when you make your romantic interest obvious when you interact with her. If you one day would desire to ask a specific young lady to be your significant other, don't let on. Don't flirt with her. Don't make her uncomfortable. Cultivate a friendship without even giving hints concerning your feelings. Treat her like you would a woman who's out of bounds. I can tell you that good christian girls truly and deeply respect men who can control themselves. The men in my life who I can see myself marrying are the ones who make me feel completely safe. Make her feel safe with you (and she should be safe with you.)

I'm not saying to be dishonest, but I am saying being restrained. I don't think that taming your outward behavior is dishonest.

As I said, exactly how long friendship would take depends on the person. It might take a year. It might take three months. (I'd guess that a few months would be the bare minimum, though.)

*Looks at her post and quickly irons her hands as punishment for her longwindedness.* XD

Anyways, I hope that wasn't too discombobulated, and that it, in some small way, helped. I know this is all painful and confusing, but try not to let it drive you. There is a God who controls even the flighty hearts of women, and he's looking out for you.


(And as a minor note of encouragement, my father didn't marry my mother until he was 34. There are still loads of good women who don't marry in their early twenties.)

[Puritan]

Don't iron your hands! Mangafanatic isn't a house elf *hands her some burn cream*

Anyway, I can understand your feelings about this. I'm about to graduate from college myself, and it feels strange to see people getting married when I havn't even really dated yet. And I've felt the same tenuousness about forming relationships with women, but with me it's more of a fear that they will take my friendship the wrong way, won't actually want to talk to me, that I'll end up being a pest, and so on. I think that most of the people here have given good advice, though. I take great comfort knowing that God is All-Knowing and knows how I am feeling, and already knows what friends I will make and who I will marry someday. I get a bit depressed and lonely sometimes because of my lack of social life, but I keep trying, and know that things will work out for the best in the end.

[Mangafanatic]

Don't iron your hands! Mangafanatic isn't a house elf *hands her some burn cream*

*Dies happy, having had her Harry Potter reference recognized*

[Puritan]

AHHH! I was just trying to be nice and I killed her! *sobs uncontrollably*

[Lady Macbeth]

I'm going to post my experience, but I am also going to warn in advance that many people do not want to follow my example because it is not in accordance with their beliefs. However, anything useful that you can pull from it, you are more than welcome to take as advice.

My husband and I celebrated our third anniversary on December 14th of last year. However, the topic often comes up among our family and friends of "just how long have you guys been together, anyway?"

My husband and I met in the fall of 1999 when we were both students at WITC-Rice Lake. We were both in the same Accounting class, as we were both involved in the CIS-MS program - he was doing pre-CIS courses, and I was in the program itself. The only reason we even noticed each other was because of anime - he had DBZ stickers on his binder, and I carried Sailor Moon folders in mine. In fact, I had a friend who sat next to me in that class and desperately tried to keep me from talking to "Scary Guy" over on the other side of the room. XD

I happened to make a fateful comment to "Scary Guy" one day about him needing to get better taste in anime. (XD From the future DBZ fiction writer herself...remember folks, snarky comments can come back to bite you in the rear.) He responded in kind that Sailor Moon wasn't worth watching. We made a friendly wager (as everything in a college student's life revolves around money) that we would each watch the other one's show for a week; if DBZ was the better show, he'd get $5 from me, and if Sailor Moon was the better show, I'd get $5 from him.

At the end of that week, we both kept our money, both of us had found a new show to watch, and we found ourselves talking about the weekly episodes before class each day. Talking turned to e-mailing between or after classes. The e-mails became forwards of favorite or ridiculously stupid chain letters and other Internet goodies. We started talking and e-mailing each other about other common interests, such as our pets, our families, and our hobbies.

Somewhere near the end of the semester, I realized that 90% of my inbox was from him, once I'd weeded out the spam.

We stayed friends over the course of that summer - we e-mailed and talked over IM, and we continued to send each other funny things and anime updates. When the next semester for school came around, we were able to see each other on campus again, and we would sometimes go down to McDonald's (two blocks from the school) for lunch. He worked a four-day-on, four-day-off 12 hour rotation at his job, and I worked weekend nights for Wal-Mart at the time, so we didn't get to spend a lot of "free time" together, but once in awhile our days off would match and we'd hang out and watch anime.

By the time I was done with my CIS degree in May of 2000, my then-boyfriend was spending all of his free time at my apartment. We'd hang out after school until we had to leave for work, and he'd come over again after school the next day. We realized that he was essentially living at my place anyway, so we decided to offically move in together and found an apartment big enough for both of us and our stuff.

We lived together for about six or eight months before he finally proposed to me, and that was at the urging of his family and friends. ("Hey, when are you ever going to get her a ring, stupid?") I was working for a jeweler at the time, so I was able to pick out and purchase a simple silver and onyx ring (I hate diamonds and am allergic to gold) that made a fine engagement ring. However, we were in no hurry to get married, so we just continued on as such for a while.

Around August of 2002 we got it in our head to think about getting married - his family was pushing for it fairly hard, mine really didn't care either way. I figured it would be easier (if more costly) in the long run for tax and other government paperwork to be married, so we went ahead and had a simple family wedding on December 14, 2002.

Overall, our relationship hasn't actually changed significantly. Our physical relationship started before we were even engaged, so that wasn't something that started just because of marriage. We're still best friends on top of being husband and wife. Our financial situation actually went down (you gotta love a federal government that has a marriage penalty on taxes) with marriage, but our personal relationship has tightened. Yes, we still argue, just like friends argue. Yes, we still have differences of opinion - in fact, he thinks I waste my time on sites like this one, whereas I find valuable learning in them. He's Christian and I'm Pagan. We have the cat that I had when I was single, and we had the dog that he had when he was single until she died. We have a second cat and a dog that we adopted together.

I think that's the fundamental thing that is often missed in these "relationship" threads - people have this expectation of "I have to get married" or "I have to have someone in my life". People have to have friends before either of that can happen. If it moves forward into something more, great. That requires deepening the friendship and keeping communication steady. My husband and I often talked about where we wanted our relationship to go or not go at various points. Even though it was August of 2002 before we started seriously making plans to get married, we had talked about it in the many months prior to that - we'd talked about it since we'd gotten engaged. We'd talked about engagement for months before we took that step.

And, sometimes, you just have to accept that people aren't ready for that "next step" in their lives yet. My husband and I have been talking about kids even since before we were married - that was one of our reasons for getting married, because my mother-in-law was always on about "Well, what if she gets pregnant? Whose name will the kid have?" I have been ready to have a child in our lives for quite some time now; my husband is not. He still wants time to take vacations, race around in cars and act like an idiot without the burden of a kid in tow. He still wants to buy video games and anime without considering their age-appropriateness.

But I know all of this because we [b]communicate[b]. We actually sit down and talk about these things.

True friends can understand and accept differences in each other, and it's true friends who eventually climb their way up to a successful marriage.