Praying after the fact?

[Godly Paladin]

Alright. So God knows what's going to happen long, long, long, long, long before it happens, correct? He sees everything from an infinity ago. Therefore, He knows when you're going to pray and what you're going to pray/ask for. So couldn't you pray about something that's already happened and - if it's in God's will - alter it? Obviously you couldn't change reality, like praying that Mao had never taken over China, but couldn't you theoretically pray for a friend's success in a tournament after the fact?

This is either brilliance or sheer stupidity. I'm sure of it.

[meboeck]

Well, I think kind of yes. A few years ago, my mom had cancer, and they thought it had spread to her neck. The results came back positive, but we kept praying. Then later the doctors said they had to redo the scan and there was no cancer in her neck. So I think God did kind of work retroactively.

[Ashley]

C. S. Lewis had a lot to say on the subject of God and time. He argued in Mere Christianity that God isn't in time, so there is no past, present, or future for Him. All time is felt by Him as we feel the present, and that would explain how it's possible to pray for something after the fact and see the results of it.

A word of caution: this is an interesting topic, and I'm sure there are many opinions on the subject, but let's keep this courteous and friendly, and not let it degrade into a hardline debate over irreconcilable denominational doctrines, okay?

[Azier the Swordsman]

I've always thought of this very subject in the following theory:

First, let us compose a simple word picture. Let's say there is a point A and a point B and C some distance from each other. Point B contains an ant's nest, Point A contains the food the ants are carrying to Point B, and Point C is a path that leads the wrong way to a mound ant poison. If you were the one watching the ants, you could see clearly all paths, and each ant, and what each ant was doing.

You watch as some ants take the correct path, and other ants take the wrong path (Point C) to destruction. While the ants can only see what is going on at one particular time, you can see the entire picture all at once, and discern what will happen next. You can discern what will come about in the future for the ants headed to Point C. You even have the power to attempt to intervene by placing obstacles in the path of the ants to try to get them on the right path again.

I theorize, that this is somewhat of what God's view of the world and time in general is, although it's more complex than that. Reinforcing what Ashley said, I believe that God sees all things, not just what's going on in the Earth and Universe, but also everything that is to happen. But not predestination. True, there are some things that are destined to happen, and cannot be changed, but, I believe, most things can be altered before they happen. As you know, the future is a period of time that has not occured yet, but perhaps there isn't just one future that is going to happen, but millions.

Think of it as a videogame, the kind where, at certain points, you are required to make certain decisions that affect the outcome of the rest of the game. The game designers programmed multiple scenerios that can possibly come about, and all of them exist in the code. All of them are alternate futures that can possibly take place, but ultimately, only one will come about, and that is determined by you.

Same thing in life. Let's say I wake up at six in the morning. I have several choices of what I can do.

A. Go back to sleep.

B. Jump in the shower and prepare for the day.

C. Skip the shower and go downstairs for breakfast.

The above are all possible futures that could take place, but I will only be able to bring about one. Once I make my choice, the future comes into existence while the others fade into oblivion. Or, more radically, in can come down to more important decisions, such as giving one's life to the Lord. Because of this, it's logical to assume that he can indeed answer prayers prayed after the request has been answered.

After all, we humans don't see the big picture all the time, and we can't help if we pray too late. But God knows your heart, and he knew well in advance you would indeed pray, so it should logically not be any less affective. You could say this is God directly interfering in bringing about a particular future. Your prayer that was already answered by the time you prayed it could very easily be the very prayer that caused it to come true.

[Stephen]

Just a heads-up. The minute people start hurling doctrine or theology at each other...this will get locked.

[Slater]

Yes... I've thought about this many times before. It is very interesting indeed. However, I can only take one stance on these thoughts, and that is that God's will shall be done, whatever His will is.

[Heart of Sword]

I don't know...good question

[Da Rabid Duckie]

I would have to agree with what Arizona said, 110%. In fact, I'm going to have to copy/paste that into a textfile I call thingsImightneedtosaylater.txt

[Anti-me]

I think it's like what C.S. Lewis said in Mere Christianity, too. God knows what we want and will pray for- out of our sense of linear time. And so he acts according to his will in answering the prayers that are said about a certain thing. However, if you already know what happened, I don't think it works, like the tournament example.

[Doubleshadow]

I think things that have happened, as in things that occured in any time frame preceeding this one, are set cannot be altered. You cannot pray to change the past, but I think you can pray to affect the present and future.
As for the tournament, sure you can pray for that, a missing paper might be found or an official might change his mind, but how well the friend or any one else in the competition performed will not change. Is that what you are saying?

[Kaligraphic]

The past can't be changed. Time travel is impossible - after all, the moment you start going back in time, you destroy the impetus that sends you back.

If one thing could be changed (i.e. the tournament), then anything could logically be changed, given sufficient effort (i.e. the Communist Revolution in China). However, events being woven together, any alteration in the past - even the presence or absence of a single particle - has far-reaching consequences. If you could add one proton, a year ago, it would have repercussions on a quantum level forever.

People think that chaos theory is just butterflies in India, but it's a lot more far-reaching than that. It's more like an iterating sequence - if you alter the value of one iteration, you can alter the value of any other, and the consequences last forever.

[Gypsy]

I've thought about it before. When I was a kid and found out that Judy Garland killed herself, I remember going up in my room, crying, and asking God to change what happened.

While I believe that God is outside the time domain, humans are still subject to it. We're also subject to one of the elements that makes us humans - free choice. For a really simple example of my thinking: An old lady grabs a pistol out of her purse and shoots her pastor. All the people in the church could pray that God would change that instance in time, because it was obviously a bad thing and God has the power to stop the old lady from pulling the trigger. However, the old lady made a free choice, and for God to alter that would be going against His original creation formula. I know this is just one instance that depends on the idea of free choice, but it was the only simple example I could think of.

To sum up my personal conclusion, I have two kickers.

Kicker # 1: I believe that God is able to change things that have already happened, but I also believe that He is in control enough so that He wouldn't have to rewind time to "fix" things for us, no matter what our point of views in the situation is.

Kicker # 2: If God is changing things in the past, we'd never know about it in this life anyway.

[Shepherdmoon]

well i my opinion how can by this definition God (from dictionary.com)

A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.
An interval separating two points on this continuum; a duration: a long time since the last war; passed the time reading.
A number, as of years, days, or minutes, representing such an interval: ran the course in a time just under four minutes.
A similar number representing a specific point on this continuum, reckoned in hours and minutes: checked her watch and recorded the time, 6:17 A.M.
A system by which such intervals are measured or such numbers are reckoned: solar time.


but could be God know before and tinkers to make things chage now?

[RedMage]

Lewis' explanation in Mere Christianity FTW!

[Da Rabid Duckie]

Kicker # 2: If God is changing things in the past, we'd never know about it in this life anyway.

Now that's an interesting comment. Of course, things like that are best left alone because the more one thinks about it the closer one's head is to reaching a state of explodedness.

I actually had a lengthy paragraph about alternate dimensions, divine sovereignty and inter-paralell dimensionary prayer but it gave me a headache while typing it, so I deleted it.

[Puritan]

While I don't belive God can change the past as it happened the way it did for a reason, I belive that praying about things we are unsure of in the past, or praying for comfort about thing in the past is good. Prayer is effective for a number of things, and I believe that a major purpose (perhaps the major purpose) is drawing Christians close to God, and helping us place our cares upon Him. Even if you can't change the past, praying about things in the past can help draw you closer to God by relying upon him for things that bother you. I think that prayer about the future is much the same. God knows everything, He knows what is best for His purposes, and that is what He will do even if we want something else. I believe that even answers to prayer that seem to backfire are done to instruct! Prayer about the future can help assuage our fear about the future rather than fretting about it, and help us draw closer to God.

[Syreth]

To me, it seems a bit silly to think that God would change His mind about something that He already allowed to happen. It's not to say that He couldn't do it, but it just wouldn't really make sense. It would almost be like God saying, "whoops, I didn't mean to do that," or "Whew, I almost let that one slip by, that would've been bad." But yeah, like Gypsy said, we wouldn't even know if He did. It is, however, an interesting topic.

[Taka]

Kicker # 1: I believe that God is able to change things that have already happened, but I also believe that He is in control enough so that He wouldn't have to rewind time to "fix" things for us, no matter what our point of views in the situation is.

Kicker # 2: If God is changing things in the past, we'd never know about it in this life anyway.

I would add one more, which has already been stated.
God is so much bigger than anything we can comprehend. So incredibly much more than we can understand, at least on this side of heaven. So, no theology, I just belive God is (a) soverign and (b) outside of/bigger than time.


Rabit trail: I adored reading that chapter in Mere Christianity. I read it over and over again digging deeper each time... He writes "onion" style...