music that's Christian but doesn't say God or Jesus.

[Hitokiri]

I have a question and i need your input,. One of my fellow Christian friends critcizes me for bieng a hyprocrite cause I dont listen to worship music and music that doesn't say God or Jesus. And also that I listen to some secular music (Beattles, Evanescence, etc.).

He said it can't be Christian if the band doesn't say God or Christ in thier songs and that they're living a lie. And all Christians should listen to worship music cause thats ht emusic of Christ.

I asked him bout bands like Relient K and Five Iron Frenzy cause they do have songs that glorify God but yet some songs are pure wierd. He said since they have songs that say God or Christ, they're good. But like bands I listen to (Blindside, East West, Demon Hunter) have hidden meanings in thier songs or whatnot, he says they're not Christian and a good Christian shouldn't listen to them. One reason why he hates Demon Hunter cause they dress not like a Christian should.

So while arguing that mmusic that does talk botu Christ or God can still be Christian for hwat they belive, I also argued that it doesn't matter whats on the outside, its what is in the inside that counts.

I told him that I just like music that is fast and loud, well he said that's not an exscuse. I should bgo to music that reminds you of Heaven and not hell which is fast and loud.

Also he said all secular music is bad. I said Beattles aren't bad. They're fun to lsiten to. He replied that what you listen to, you become so he said Iif I continue to listen to the Beattles, I'll become a drug addict and if I continue to listen to Evanescence, I'll become a Goth and kill myself. His belief is that it matters what the band looks like and thier lyrics. So say thiers a Christian band but one member smokes, well then they're not a Christian band. Thats why he doesn't like Skilelt cause they dress funny.

Well, the lunch bell rang before we could go deeper but sadly, we both left with bitter feelings to eachother.

What are your guys views on this subject. It can't be Christian if the son gdoesn't have at leats Christ or God in it and what you listen to, you will become?

[Stephen]

Tell your friend he is narrowminded and needs help. Also ask him if he ever watches anime, tv, movies, or goes shopping. Because all of these things are sinful according to his standard.

[ShiroiHikari]

Well, here's what I think.

If music that doesn't say "God" or "Jesus" in it isn't good for a Christian to listen to, then by the same logic, we shouldn't be watching TV or reading books, etc. that don't say "God" or "Jesus".

And tell me this. Is the song Megalomaniac by Incubus a Christian song, because it mentions Jesus? Most certainly not.

If your friend doesn't want to listen to secular music, then fine. But he shouldn't be forcing his personal convictions and beliefs on you.

[Zedian]

Totally agree with the other's point of views. Probably much of what we do in everday life is secular in some for or a fashion, you can't escape it really unless you become a mormon and head out west to hide from society. But no really, bad jokes aside---there are artist who are Christian but yet don't sing about God or Jesus but that doesn't make them wrong to listen to. It's entertainment and if the message is a little negative, it shouldn't be taken too literal. And as for a band like Demon Hunter looking the way they look, God doesn't care what you look like from the outside, it's all about the inside.

[Hawk of Skies]

Along the same lines as the others, I must say that I listen to bands like Incubus, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, Audioslave, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, and so on so on so on, but I know Jesus died for us, rose from death, AND ascended on to Heaven.

Does listening to rock make me un-Christian? No, unless I worshipped it (which I don't).

As for that whole "you become what you listen to" crap? If you're weak of will, yeah, you'll be prone to do that. But if your faith lies in God, then who cares what you listen to??

(Besides, doesn't it say somewheres that we ain't supposed to judge others?? 0_<)

Whether or not the music talks about your faith shouldn't matter any; you like to listen to it, listen to it. 'Stall I can tell ya. ::shrugs::

[Hawk of Skies]

Along the same lines as the others, I must say that I listen to bands like Incubus, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, Audioslave, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, and so on so on so on, but I know Jesus died for us, rose from death, AND ascended on to Heaven.

Does listening to rock make me un-Christian? No, unless I worshipped it (which I don't).

As for that whole "you become what you listen to" crap? If you're weak of will, yeah, you'll be prone to do that. But if your faith lies in God, then who cares what you listen to??

(Besides, doesn't it say somewheres that we ain't supposed to judge others?? 0_<)

Whether or not the music talks about your faith shouldn't matter any; you like to listen to it, listen to it. 'Tsall I can tell ya. ::shrugs::

[Hawk of Skies]

side note:???????????Why did it send twice????????

Boggles my mind . . .

[Uriah]

I have a few things to cover here.

The first is there is no such thing as "Secular" and "Religious". Thinking that way is in fact, religious, and the person who does need prayer. What a Christian should ask is "Does it produce life, or death?". Because religion is a huge source of death in it's self. I am convinced that highly religious, condeming people in general have murdered more souls than Saddam. Christianity is not a religion, its a relationship.

As for listening to music that does not say God in it, saying such things is idiotic. I like to listen to worship, but God isnt going to like me any less if I listen to christian music that does not say God, nor is he if I listen to evil music for that matter, though I don't see why I should damage myself.
Consider this also, how are you going to draw people with only music that mentions God? I use myself as an example here, before I was saved, I wanted nothing to do with Christian music, and the fact is, people simply don't want to hear it. No one is going to go out and buy a worship CD just to see if it's "cool" or not, because by the most of the world's standards, it isnt. But if you weave God into music that these people enjoy, even though they don't understand what the lyrics mean, they just may begin to wonder, and try to find out what it means. This in my opinion is far more affective. Not saying, however, that the more forward kind of Christian music doesnt draw people, but it's usually for people who are already saved.

One more thing, Evanescence is a Christian band, it's simply geared toward unsaved people, because they sing about what it's like to be unsaved, wich people can relate to. I urge this guy to read the lyrics to their songs.

[Hitokiri]

One more thing, Evanescence is a Christian band, it's simply geared toward unsaved people, because they sing about what it's like to be unsaved, wich people can relate to. I urge this guy to read the lyrics to their songs.

I don't want to get into a debate wether Evanescence is a Christian band cause thats not th eintent of this thread but I would like to touch on the subject lightly.

I for one love Evanescence. I find thie rmusic inttresting to listen to and I love thier lyrcis, but I don't recognize them as a Christian abnd. Sure they wrote songs that my have some spiritual points. Ben Moody (lead guitarist) even said himself that they are not a Christian band and when asked bout thier music bieng in Christian music stores, he said how'd they give thier using the F word. I like thier music but I don't consider them Christian.

Anyways...
I basically agree with everyone here. You dress or look anyone you want and still be Christian. But one thing thoughgue with that. We have to be examples of Christ and if say someone looks at you that doesn't know you and you have tatooes and piercings all over and wearing all black, they might think differently and not see you as a Christian.

I think we should at least be mindful in the way we look or act so that people will look at us and know we're Christians.

Also I like a cool thing that happened today. We were in the School Computer Lab today during European History working on our senior projects and I was sitting next to my friend. He's a great guy and a awesome friend to me but not a Christian. I don't know bout what abnds he likes but I know he likes Tool. Well, I wore some Demon Hunter shirts before and asked me bout them. I was like they're a Christian band (he knows Im a Christian). So during school, I went to thier site and had him listen to some tracks and thier music vid and he was amazed that they were Christian and he might go pick up thier new c.d. I think sometimes music that doesn't say Jesus and God can be a betetr evangelizing (sp?) tool then msuic that does.

I told my friend who I based this entire dicussion on and he said that you can get a non-christian to listnen to these "fake christian bands" but then should later when becoming a older Christian listen to worship and more God-oriented music. I kinda rolled my eyes.

Also please don't bash on him. Despite this little adversary we have with eachother, we are very good friends and he's a awesome Christian (organizes all the Christian activities and events in the school.)

[Stephen]

"One more thing, Evanescence is a Christian band, it's simply geared toward unsaved people, because they sing about what it's like to be unsaved, wich people can relate to. I urge this guy to read the lyrics to their songs."


*Laughs* Thats funny...considering I have read posts by Amy Lee on her boards I tend to think your wrong.

[skynes]

You all know the song Amazing Grace? One of the most well known hymns of ALL time. Did you know it doesn't mentioned God, Christ, Jesus or ANY name of his in the WHOLE song!? Song must be satanic now...

What about the book of Esther (I think it's Esther) not ONCE is God mentioned. Must be a satanic book...

I told my friend who I based this entire dicussion on and he said that you can get a non-christian to listnen to these "fake christian bands" but then should later when becoming a older Christian listen to worship and more God-oriented music. I kinda rolled my eyes.

*rolls eyes right out of socket*

What about the ppl who lived pre-modern worship. What did they listen to? Bet it sure wasn't musicless psalms. Especially since a good chunk of the Psalms mention instruments for them to be played with.

Does sound like he's putting his convictions onto other people. I can't see that being anything other than harmful, like going up to a guy who just got saved and saying "Now that you're a Christian... HERES a list of things you cant do anymore!"

I'm not gonna bash the guy, if solely worship music is his style and convictions, so be it. But pushing them onto ppl is going to harm their faith, harm his witness and mar Christ's name.

I for one (like you Hitokiri) have used music as an evangelising tool. I've got unsaved friends who LOVE Skillet and Demon Hunter and Kekal and alot of other Christian bands.

http://www.eternaldecision.net/overflow.htm
let your friend see this link, or print out the lyrics for him. Let him read them, then let him hear
http://www.eternaldecision.net/mp3s/OVERFLOW-high.mp3

It's the song of those lyrics. Eternal Decision have some of the most powerful Christian lyrics I've ever read in Metal music.



Edit: I realised that the link for that song mightn't work. If it doesn't use this one: http://www.godcore.com/bands/eternaldecision/f_overflow.mp3

[Zilch]

Also, God has HOW many different names in the Bible? blindside uses "He" alot, while Tourniquet refers to him with allegorical names, such as "The Pipsisiwah" and "Gilgamesh". Skillet uses "You" frequently. Some people just need to do a study on pronouns every once in a while...

(points down to sig)

[Stephen]

If a band claims to be a ministry thats cool...if not...leave em alone. There doing there job. I don't think any of us would want to have some punk come into work and say, your not acting holy enough...

[Hawk of Skies]

"The first is there is no such thing as "Secular" and "Religious". Thinking that way is in fact, religious, and the person who does need prayer. What a Christian should ask is "Does it produce life, or death?". Because religion is a huge source of death in it's self. I am convinced that highly religious, condeming people in general have murdered more souls than Saddam. Christianity is not a religion, its a relationship."

I agree fully on this!! . . . hard to explain, though you did very nicely.
I know people who are extremely religious, and they drive me crazy.

To this
"I like to listen to worship, but God isnt going to like me any less if I listen to christian music that does not say God, nor is he if I listen to evil music for that matter, though I don't see why I should damage myself."
and this,
"Consider this also, how are you going to draw people with only music that mentions God? But if you weave God into music that these people enjoy, even though they don't understand what the lyrics mean, they just may begin to wonder, and try to find out what it means. This in my opinion is far more affective. Not saying, however, that the more forward kind of Christian music doesnt draw people, but it's usually for people who are already saved."

from a musician's standpoint, listening to everything helps even a little. ::shrugs:: It's been my experience that listening to one kind of music over and over just . . . doesn't do anything. If you listen to all types of music (rock, pop, classical, country, etc.), then you'll have a better understanding of them all and what the essence of each genre is. Then only will you be able to use some type of music for a general public to twist peoples' ears to whatever words you want to put to the beat.

Saved or not: I've known a few who listen to worship music just to put on a good-Christian-show for the people they want to be a part of.

It's also to my knowledge that if you believe in Christ, then no matter how you dress or look or anything will block the glow that naturally radiates from you; people are attracted to you, but they don't know why, and if you let it be known to their unseeing eyes, then they'll be curious.

By no means should you push something on them. Kinda like, if you live it, they'll know but not know. They'll be curious.

I also have a friend who, a couple years ago, I re-introduced Christianity to her, and then she turned around and started telling ME how to live it. Normally, people get excited about something new and they want to tell everyone, thus, they start pushing and everybody backs off.

::sighs:: Sorry for the length . . . lots to share.

[Hitokiri]

heres a song taken from Demon Hunters new c.d.

My Heart Strings Come Undone

Chrous
And when my heartstrings come undone
I will wait for you, pray for you
Before I make my final run
I will stay with you, decay with you

To me that has very big spirtual meaning behind. Doesn't say God or Christ in it but still have a deep spiritual meaning.

I agree with you 100% Slynes. I use tons of my music to evangelize.

[That Dude]

Though you probably have talked to him since it happened I think that even though what he said was pretty much crap you still shouldn't go right out and say the points where he's wring and your right. That's what he's doing to you. You need to pray about it and "tell the truth in love." I have a friend who are kind of like that (to a lesser degree) and I'd argue with her all the time about things like that and the way you look. It didn't do much good (though it was kind of fun at times.) But one of the things that got us to stop arguing so much was me taking a step back and saying "you know what, why don't you pray about what your saying and truelly ask God for his direction on this, and I'll do the same." After that it pretty much died down.

[Kaori]

This idea came up in a discussion of poetry, but I think it applies equally to music: if Christians only wrote devotional works and nothing else, then that would leave every other human experience exclusively to non-Christians. If that were the case, then there would never be any songs by Christians about things like human relationships, the beauty of nature, dealing with grief, etc.--and that would be quite a shame.

[Ashley]

One more point to add to the topic--I would show your friend the passages in the Bible where Jesus fed the crowds, healed people, ate with sinners, turned water into wine--heck just show him all the gospels. Did Jesus EVER say to someone "you can't follow me dressed like that" or "you can only be my disciple if you listen to these kinds of music". Of course not. Christ looked out into the world and saw they were sheep without a shepherd, in dire need of his salvation especially those whom society would not even embrace in fellow humanity (lepers, prostitutes, you know the general "sinners" )

Did he not say, "Man judges on the outward, but it is God who judges the heart!"

Think about the pharisees too. For all pratical purposes, you're friend would be a rather good one. They did all the right things, dressed in the most "religious" ways, all they ever talked about was God, etc. But Christ called them white-washed tombs, because for all that good outward stuff nothing on the inside showed a true love for God.

I think there's a fine line between being a stumbling block and having the freedom of Christ/reaching people where they are. For example, if I were into gothic clothing and what have you, I would be able to talk to some people about Christ that if you came up to them in a long skirt and fluffy blouse they'd immediately close their ears. I think in showing the world that we are not going to condemn what they like (within reason, of course) then THAT is truly being Christ to them. Think about it, what sounds more appealing, a God that takes you as you are and perfects you along the way gently, or who wants you to stop everything you're into, everything you enjoy, and become a puritanical stiff neck?

Again, there is a balance to find between setting a good example and what I just described, but it seems to me your friend is not only trying to tell others where that line is when he has no right to, he's also on an extreme himself.

[CreatureArt]

I agree.

I also agree with much of what others have mentioned on this thread. I don't think it's wrong to listen to non-Christian music, or go to non-Christian movies.

Phi 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

.

Don't know just how relevant this is - but one message I get out of this verse is to expose ourselves to good things.

So although I don't agree with not listening to anything that doesn't mention the name God or Jesus or fit into the 'ideal spiritual category' ( ) I do think that there is some merit in the idea that listening to worship and praise music, seeing good Christian movies, reading good Christian books, etc. - is good. These activities can really help our walk with God.

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="Zedia

[bigsleepj]

I'm a bit tired of christian songs that are simply:
"i love god, god is cool and good"
*insert guitar strings here*
"yea yea yea, he's cooler than toothpaste!"

But He is. I fail to see your point. Just kidding.

No I see your point exactly. I have a dislike for a majority of modern-Gospel music because it sounds more or less the same. There are great exceptions to this rule admittedly (Johnny Cash's "God" CD comes to mind) for the most part I avoid Gospel music.

[CobaltAngel]

What the freak in wrong with the way DH dresses? I'm totally not seeing it. And Blindside ownz all those poser groups.

One more thing, Evanescence is a Christian band, it's simply geared toward unsaved people, because they sing about what it's like to be unsaved, wich people can relate to. I urge this guy to read the lyrics to their songs.

I used to think that too b/c I really like Evanescence but I saw a DVD about them and it totally changed my mind. I know their old guitarist (Ben) was a Christian but I'm pretty sure Amy's not. Unforturnately.

But yes, you can be secular and still be a Christian group. Of course, I do admit that groups like Lifehouse who make their music so it can be taken either way kind of annoy me, but its still good, clean, sweet music that is worth listening to. The bottom line is, don't listen to anything that will lead you away from Christ.

[Hitokiri]

Oh wow...this is...a old thread. I was wondering I made this type of thread.

Which reminds me...this friend I was talking about. He's into bands like Extol and Demon Hunter now...the bands he thought weren't Christian cause they were hard

[Yamato145]

I have a question and i need your input,. One of my fellow Christian friends critcizes me for bieng a hyprocrite cause I dont listen to worship music and music that doesn't say God or Jesus. And also that I listen to some secular music (Beattles, Evanescence, etc.).

He said it can't be Christian if the band doesn't say God or Christ in thier songs and that they're living a lie. And all Christians should listen to worship music cause thats ht emusic of Christ.

I asked him bout bands like Relient K and Five Iron Frenzy cause they do have songs that glorify God but yet some songs are pure wierd. He said since they have songs that say God or Christ, they're good. But like bands I listen to (Blindside, East West, Demon Hunter) have hidden meanings in thier songs or whatnot, he says they're not Christian and a good Christian shouldn't listen to them. One reason why he hates Demon Hunter cause they dress not like a Christian should.

So while arguing that mmusic that does talk botu Christ or God can still be Christian for hwat they belive, I also argued that it doesn't matter whats on the outside, its what is in the inside that counts.

I told him that I just like music that is fast and loud, well he said that's not an exscuse. I should bgo to music that reminds you of Heaven and not hell which is fast and loud.

Also he said all secular music is bad. I said Beattles aren't bad. They're fun to lsiten to. He replied that what you listen to, you become so he said Iif I continue to listen to the Beattles, I'll become a drug addict and if I continue to listen to Evanescence, I'll become a Goth and kill myself. His belief is that it matters what the band looks like and thier lyrics. So say thiers a Christian band but one member smokes, well then they're not a Christian band. Thats why he doesn't like Skilelt cause they dress funny.

Well, the lunch bell rang before we could go deeper but sadly, we both left with bitter feelings to eachother.

What are your guys views on this subject. It can't be Christian if the son gdoesn't have at leats Christ or God in it and what you listen to, you will become?

I definetly disagree with your friend ... I've been spiritually inspired by seculr music even
Linkin Park's "Somewhere I Belong" got me going to church again and my friend Glenn plays Shinedown or Three Days Grace when he has prayer time

[Bobtheduck]

I'm a christian when I drink my coffee (stolen from http://www.engrish.com, beware some of the stuff there is a bit iffy)

As for your friend, he's a bit off his rocker... Tell him to read the book of esther (unless he's catholic or believes in the apocrypha in any way, then make sure he reads the non-apocryphal esther) and see if he still has that viewpoint... Also, ask him to tell you where it says smoking is a sin in the Bible... I'll just tell you it's not there... Not a sin to smoke or drink, nor is it a sin to eat anything... In fact, preaching such is one of the few things lined out in the bible to be herrasy(sp?) "A man is not made unclean by what he takes into his body, but what is the overflowing of his heart... makes him unclean" Now, mind altering drugs (referred to in verses on spiritism, or the using of drugs to contact spirits) are specifically mentioned and it warns (but I don't think outright condemns) against getting drunk because it can cause you to sin so easily, but that's the extent of it...

Remind your friend that "Man looks on the outside appearance, but God looks at the heart"

[Eric]

Here are lyrics to some of Sympathy's songs: (Dharok is one of the best lyricists I know of.)

ADEPT ARCANA

the fire that leaves no scars sears my flesh
it fills me with fear and wonder

an heir to the secret power
an heir to the flame
I am adept in the ancient
well versed in the arcane

the blood of the chosen flows within me
it fills me with strength and passion

as fire, through my veins
the knowledge I've acquired
it burns and consumes me
and reveals what eyes can't see

as a furnace fueled with flame
the power that I've acquired
it permeates and animates me
and raises me to transcendency


THE SHINING ONES

shrouded in obscurity, forces of divinity
burning light and majesty
beyond apprehension, empirical cognition
servants of the immortal throne
ever acting for the will of enthroned deity
never ceasing, never tiring
endless execution of their obscure rites
before the altar of the ancient one

as the shining ones to thee pay their homage
I shall bend my knee in fervent worship
I will take the oath that there shall be no other
and with this flesh, may your will be done

their visages are as the burning light of purity
terror and fear beyond compare
the beating of their wings is the roaring of the ocean
their ardor belongs to the lord of sabaoth
songs never cease to ring throughout the temple
as the smoke from the altar fills the air
their voices sound like the crushing weight of thunder
as their hordes sing praise to the ancient one

hordes, of fiery creatures, of ancient beings, that eyes can't see
droves, of mighty warriors, almighty's agents, defend the chosen
hosts, of divine legions, the dread armies, serve my master
swarms, surrounding me, upholding me, protecting me

As the shining ones to thee pay their homage
I shall bend my knee in fervent worship
I shall take the coal unto me that is offered
and with its fire shall this flesh be cleansed


THE RED LEAGUE

hidden in the groves
where once burned pagan fires
the chosen ones have gathered to perform
the rites of ancient scriptures
founded in the blood
of our martyred dead

all about the darkened night
lit only by our fires
the acolytes are summoned
we complete our ancient task
to spill immortal blood
all will satisfy their thirst and drink

gathered in the presence
of the ancient one
I will partake in deity


TWILIGHT AND REBIRTH

when I in the season of autumn in my life
I expect to die and pass on from death to life
though this flesh rots and decays and falls from the bone
the lot of my days won't be to lie in the grave

the worm down in the earth consumes not my essence
the grave, the tomb, holds no sway on me, impotent
sinews reknit and joints made anew, mind awake
this corpse will live not to die or grow sick again

in my twilight hour I am assured that though I die
I will face to face see the ancient one
and in my rebirth I shall arise to taste of life
and death will have no victory

when my hour has come to pass on and I meet death
I will awake in the ancient halls of glory
and when mighty legions go forth to purge the earth
my flesh will groan in the grave for its time has come


SURROUNDED BY THE DEAD

the ancient dead have surrounded me
their fleshless hands are upholding me
such a great cloud of the dead elect
they held the flame, passed it unto me
tortured and killed by heathen hands
facing their death, they did not recant
I can endure and remain to the end
I am a nexus for the dead and man

tasting death and tasting sorrows
yet they did endure
facing torment, facing judgment
yet I shall endure
I am promised my own portion
of the weight they bore
I embrace the pain and suffering
for me that's assured

the ancient dead have surrounded me and they strengthen me
their fleshless hands are upholding me with their firm grasp
their lives were spent for the hidden truths that belong to me
I am one of the few who was chosen for this arcane path

[rocklobster]

Tell your friend to listen to "Bridge Over Troubled Water" and "Spirit in the Sky". Both are rock songs that have been made by Christian rock bands and don't mention God or Jesus in them. And they both talk about God. (At least, I always thought those songs were about God)
In fact, Norman Greenbaum was told not to mention Jesus in"Spirit in the Sky" or even record the song because it wouldn't make it on the radio. Someone was wrong there, huh?

[PigtailsJazz]

...I think your friend needs prayer (about all problems listed before me).

[EricTheFred]

Note to rocklobster: Norman Greenbaum definitely does mention Jesus in Spirit in the Sky.

On the original subject. One can't really declare who is "right" or "wrong" on this subject, because it is really about the right way to worship Him. Your friend clearly believes "Actively, All day, every day, every minute" is the correct answer. Ultimately, there is nothing wrong with that idea, even if it isn't the right answer to you and me.

I suppose what I have to say about your friend is, always value fervor, because The Lord has good uses for it. What he needs, perhaps, is a more valuable target to focus his fervor on.

Fortunately, this world is a target rich environment. Since worrying about what music a fellow christian listens to isn't necessarily wrong, but is trivial, the best thing you can do for him is leave his opinion be, and help him change the subject. There are so many more constructive tasks available for him.

[Merovingian]

Well, I'm definitely going with everybody else here. Music doesn't have to be worhip music to be enjoyed. As long as one is happy, is what I think. Although, there are certainly some kinds of music that just leave a very bad, unfriendly taste in my mouth.