Defenders of CHRISTmas in Mustang, Oklahoma!!

[carneman]

Some friends of mine (and myself) sold shirts this "holiday" to fight back against the oppression of Cristmas. It turned out to be a heuge success! We even got on the news! YAY!!!

[Mr. Rogers]

what'd they say?

[Slater]

whoa, yeah, link us!

[ShiroiHikari]

Whoa, right here in Oklahoma, eh? Nice. (I live in Norman.)

[GhostontheNet]

Some friends of mine (and myself) sold shirts this "holiday" to fight back against the oppression of Cristmas. It turned out to be a heuge success! We even got on the news! YAY!!!

Of course the news came, they are always most eager for opportunities to let the Christians discredit themselves in the eyes of the people, and you are to be thanked for your role in burning bridges.

[Myoti]

Of course the news came, they are always most eager for opportunities to let the Christians discredit themselves in the eyes of the people, and you are to be thanked for your role in burning bridges.

What the...? Is that a negative comment or... what? O.o

If so, why do you say that? They were selling t-shirts. How is that a bad thing?

[GhostontheNet]

What the...? Is that a negative comment or... what? O.o

If so, why do you say that? They were selling t-shirts. How is that a bad thing?

Yes, a sarcasm. And making a stir about all this "oppression" because the Jews have memories about how God delivered the land from the tyrant Antiochus and celebrate it, while we Christians have forgotten all the holidays Yeshua celebrated, and because people choose to celebrate the winter solstice of God's very good world counts as glorifying how?

[ShiroiHikari]

Do we really need to be arguing about this...?

[Kawaiikneko]

yes, I don't believe that was the point of this thread... If a Christian doesn't feel convicted to celebrate the festival of boothes or the jubilee year, should they be forced to? no matter how it was started, we can still celebrate the entrance of our Savior into the world on Christmas. I don't think anyone should be condemned for celebrating that...

Good job carneman! Do you have a picture of these t-shirts? it sounds fun ^^

[GhostontheNet]

yes, I don't believe that was the point of this thread... If a Christian doesn't feel convicted to celebrate the festival of boothes or the jubilee year, should they be forced to? no matter how it was started, we can still celebrate the entrance of our Savior into the world on Christmas. I don't think anyone should be condemned for celebrating that...

Good job carneman! Do you have a picture of these t-shirts? it sounds fun ^^

Well, I certainly would that the slave owners of U.S. history or organizations like World Bank would have celebrated the jubilee year, or it's essential undergirding tradition anyway, rather than exercising Christian or non-Christian freedom for free removal of freedom, but that's another matter. It is our original poster's complaining of "opression" which he is fighting, adding sarcasm of quotation marks to even calling Christmas a "holiday", that reveals our original poster's pet issue is complaining of the phrase "Happy Holidays".

[Sammy Boy]

Of course the news came, they are always most eager for opportunities to let the Christians discredit themselves in the eyes of the people, and you are to be thanked for your role in burning bridges.

I've no doubt you know more of matters in history and theology than most of us who post on these forums. But perhaps it would not be out of place to suggest that you use a little more gentleness in pointing out our errors instead of resorting to sarcasm.

[Kat Walker]

I have to side with Ghost on this one. Holiday semantics is the wrong hill to die on, and shame on the groups who honestly have no idea what kind of a media field day will ensue thanks to their zealous efforts to win a "war" that exists only in their imaginations. There's no better way to make Christianity look ridiculous than argue about something petty and pointless.

Come now. Nobody is stealing Christmas.

....With the possible exception of the Grinch.

[Lady Macbeth]

First of all, congrats to carneman for your group's efforts. It is wonderful to see pro-active young people out and striving to be heard.

To GhostontheNet:

I can appreciate where you're coming from; trust me, I've walked that road, and I talk regularly to people who still do. However, I don't personally find anything wrong with being pro-active on a topic or position that one feels strongly about. Apathy is lethal - both to the spirit and to the country. Perhaps such pro-active tactics as these t-shirts does seem like it will burn bridges with some and alienate others. And it will. There will be people who see that on the news and get all up in arms and rant to their family about "fundies" and will then go back to their mundane lives until the next news bite that ticks them off comes along.

But take it from someone who knows - fifteen minutes on the news and a few t-shirts now is well worth what might be saved in the future. Trust me - you do not want to let apathy swell until such a time as arguments over a holiday name become legal restrictions against it.

What today is people looking at you with a snide, secular contempt and dislike of minor protests will later be a serious infringement of rights and constant court and civil battles - take it from someone who knows.

[GhostontheNet]

I've no doubt you know more of matters in history and theology than most of us who post on these forums. But perhaps it would not be out of place to suggest that you use a little more gentleness in pointing out our errors instead of resorting to sarcasm.

Shame and indeed sarcasm is one of the tools Paul and even Yeshua employed in such things - sometimes the road to causing any healing involves a measure of pain. Whether I have chosen correctly, I am not sure, but this one strikes me as something of an influential hothead the likes of Peter, and sometimes it is necessary to oppose Peter to his face when in err, as Paul did. I would like to think this is the exception to the rule, and in general I simply point out some new perspective to shift the face of dialogue.

[GhostontheNet]

First of all, congrats to carneman for your group's efforts. It is wonderful to see pro-active young people out and striving to be heard.

To GhostontheNet:

I can appreciate where you're coming from]does[/b] seem like it will burn bridges with some and alienate others. And it will. There will be people who see that on the news and get all up in arms and rant to their family about "fundies" and will then go back to their mundane lives until the next news bite that ticks them off comes along.

But take it from someone who knows - fifteen minutes on the news and a few t-shirts now is well worth what might be saved in the future. Trust me - you do not want to let apathy swell until such a time as arguments over a holiday name become legal restrictions against it.

What today is people looking at you with a snide, secular contempt and dislike of minor protests will later be a serious infringement of rights and constant court and civil battles - take it from someone who knows.

But merely admitting the existence of the insulting term "fundies" opens a can of worms - they have over a period of time acquired a bad reputation, rightfully so, of jumping into all the wrong battles and ignoring the truly right ones - a state well imortalized in the Christian Goth group Dead Artist Syndrome's songs Christian America and The Bride Song, the latter of which I will now quote from,

Jesus I love you
But I don't understand your wife
She wears such funny make up
And she always wants to fight
Every time I turn my back
She's waiting with a knife
In a world of black and gray
She argues shades of white....

She's always burning bridges
Even ones she's standing on.....

Always hear me complain
And you're listening once more
I know everything your bride's against
But I don't know what she's for
So don't mistake my anger for bitterness and strife
Cuz on bended knees
I'm begging you please
Jesus talk to your wife

Bridges are implements that people use to cross over to the other side, usually to both ways, but without them you have an island. This is exactly the problem, here we have loud complaints against a mere public acknowledgement that people celebrate other stuff around this time on the allegation that it somehow defames the name of Yeshua to acknowledge that. I say its better to wait until some group actually steps forward to throw political power behind some kind of anti-Merry-Christmas action before campaigning against it. And to counter secularization of Christmas, a more gentle hand would suffice - write letters to stations requesting they play movies about Yeshua like The Miracle Maker, when so many songs and even Sandy Claws (too much Nightmare Before Christmas) declare the high message of "Peace on earth and good will torwards men", we would be seen working torwards the breaking of the thick spider's web of hate and opression and men vivisecting each other in the fields, when we learn to really understand and preach and enact torwards the whole of Isaiah 9:

1 But there will be no gloom for her who was in anguish. In the former time he brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the latter time he has made glorious the way of the sea, the land beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.
2 The people who walked in darkness
have seen a great light;
those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness,
on them has light shined.
3You have multiplied the nation;
you have increased its joy;
they rejoice before you
as with joy at the harvest,
as they are glad when they divide the spoil.
4For the yoke of his burden,
and the staff for his shoulder,
the rod of his oppressor,
you have broken as on the day of Midian.
5For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult
and every garment rolled in blood
will be burned as fuel for the fire.
6For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
to establish it and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and forevermore.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.

And, if we act to bring honor upon ourselves within the land, we need not fear negative social sanctions like laws against us.

[glitch1501]

well, i just want to say congrats for getting cool tshirts i really dont think that you guys really need to argue about this....

[inkhana]

Well, it certainly didn't take long for this to degrade. Locked.