Disrespectful artwork

[Roll]

Hey, all, I was wondering if I could get your opinion on this. Recently I was visiting an oekaki board when I came across an image of a video game character whose arms were stretched in front of a horizontal wooden beam, hands just out of view. His head was hanging down, eyes closed, body bloody...sound familiar? Well, I found it to be tasteless at best and voiced my offense in the comments. I said that it was "disrespectful to the One who actually went through it." The artist responded with "No it isn't, because it isn't a cross. And besides, you're just assuming. How do you know he's nailed up there? I don't think Neo would care anyway."

Whoever Neo is. Seemed to me that he didn't get my point. I wrote back and basically told him that it didn't matter that it wasn't an exact portrayal because it was still close enough to give a strong impression of what's recognized worldwide as Christ's crucifixion. I'm wondering if I'm being oversensitive, though. What do you all think?

[Bobtheduck]

I've always been wary of taking up offense on things like this... The non-christian world will mock or minimalize Jesus... We dont' have to agree and we may get upset, but I dont' think complaining is really going to get anywhere... Provided they're not actively getting in the way of someone being brought to Jesus, it's not exactly a threat.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

There's lots of stuff that mocks Jesus or has similarities to the crucifixion or what have you. Its not good but people will do it because it irks others.
By the way Neo is the main character from The Matrix movie(s).

[Slater]

Yeah, half of me wonders if that's the scene in Matrix Revolutions, but there was no wood...

[mechana2015]

First:
Neo is a character from the matrix movies and games...
he's referred to as "the One" through out them, hence some of the confusion or sarcasm involved.

Secondly some games (and anime) feature images of charachters getting crucified, so they may just be copying the games images. Japanese developers often use christian imagery because it looks interesting, or to add a religeous feel to a game.

Also crucifixion was considered an ultimate punishment in the roman days, and while Christ is the most famous crucifixion in history, he is far from the only person to have been crucified. (The two thieves who died with him for example.)
Cricifixion is used to show excruciating punishment, and simply a cross or plus shaped piece(s) of wood is (are) the best way to restrain human limbs (or an X, which is also of religeous significance to some).

One of the things that is most poignant about the death of Christ, in my opinion, is that He was killed in the most common and humiliating fatal punishment of the day, fully bringing himself to the lowest of lows for our sake, despite all his heavenly power.

These are all just my opinions, if someone has better information, feel free to express it. Don't flame me up for it though.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

This is in a grey area, because you don't know the artists intention of whether to mock christianity or not. Keep in mind that cruifixing was a common way to torture and execute people back in the day. Jesus was not the only one crucified! Spartacus was, and the 2 guys next to Jesus were. And I believe even Peter was (upside down?)

[Aka-chan]

Crucifixion was even used for criminals in old Japan, actually.

[Taka]

I don't let stuff like that bother me. I used to do things just to tick off Christians, and really, it is usualy from either just petty-ness, or anger towards Christians in general. Don't argue with someone about it, because that is exactaily what they want you to do.

ETA: Crucifixion is not unique to Christianity. Many other "religions" had their "gods" curcified.

[uc pseudonym]

As has been pointed out repeatedly, crucifixion was viewed only as a method of capital punishment until Jesus. Actually, if we kept that thought in mind instead of mystifying the cross it would probably be healthy.

I repeat this only to get to my point: you have a right to be upset if someone else is exploiting/subverting Christian religious symbolism. However, in many cases they mean nothing of the sort.

And I believe even Peter was (upside down?)

Yes. Some say this was because he felt not worthy to be killed in the same way as Christ. I think that concept makes inverted-cross symbolism rather ironic.

[Roll]

True that crucifixion was once common, but would we all really be so aware of that today had it not been for Christ's? It is because of him that this type of execution is so well known worldwide to this day. You make a good point, Taka. I guess I'll just leave him to be corrected by God.

[chibiphonebooth]

yeah.. i know how you feel. for holloween there is this kid who dressed up as jesus.. and he went outside and stood like a crucified jesus on a tree. i got so offended.

i hate that kid. >.>

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Yes. Some say this was because he felt not worthy to be killed in the same way as Christ. I think that concept makes inverted-cross symbolism rather ironic.

Indeed XD, whoever thought that an upside down cross was satanic?

[Roll]

Indeed XD, whoever thought that an upside down cross was satanic?

I heard that the upsidedown cross is considered satanic because it represents an arrow pointing down to hell, as opposed to the upright cross, pointing to heaven. Don't know where this notion comes from, though.

[shooraijin]

Yes. Some say this was because he felt not worthy to be killed in the same way as Christ. I think that concept makes inverted-cross symbolism rather ironic.

What's more ironic is that St Peter was probably not the only one to request his death in that manner (and the sadism of the Romans was probably such that many of these requests were granted). See http://www.new-life.net/faq800.htm (note: I have not reviewed the rest of this site).

[uc pseudonym]

I heard that the upsidedown cross is considered satanic because it represents an arrow pointing down to hell, as opposed to the upright cross, pointing to heaven. Don't know where this notion comes from, though.

An inverted cross is undoubtedly a satanic symbol. I just find its origins (or at least an instance that far predates its use otherwise) ironic.

(and the sadism of the Romans was probably such that many of these requests were granted)

Would an upsidedown crucifixion be slower or quicker? You wouldn't be be able to lift yourself up to breath, but if you didn't need to it would make the death much longer.

That's an interesting site, by the way.

[termyt]

I would not take offense to the image. At least, I probably would hesitate to be vocal about it. Crucifixion remains a very popular form of imagery in our culture – because of Christ’s crucifixion. There has been no more powerful symbol of execution in our history. The reason for portraying anyone or thing in such a pose is to stir emotion in the viewer. If their disrespect is accidental, then mentioning it is a good way to teach and share with them. However, most people are simply looking for shock value, so mentioning it only rewards them by giving them what they are looking for.

Would an upsidedown crucifixion be slower or quicker? You wouldn't be be able to lift yourself up to breath, but if you didn't need to it would make the death much longer.

I think it would be quicker in most cases. Breathing wouldn't be a problem, so you wouldn't eventually die of asphyxiation, but you would have another, very serious problem. Hanging upside down, you blood would begin to pool in your head.

Your body is accustomed to pumping your blood up to your head and drawing your blood up from your feet. While upside-down, your heart has to pump the blood up to your feet and draw it away from your head. It sounds the same, but it really isn’t. (This is one reason that you feel light-headed if you stay upside-down for a while – if you’ve ever tried it). This places an extra strain on your heart and blood vessels – one of which will eventually give out. Considering that people placed on the cross are generally not in the best physical condition, this is likely to happen sooner – in a matter of hours – not later.

[Uriah]

Regaurdless if this is a religious matter or not, I think it's pretty stupid to draw meaningless, violent scenes and call it art.

But then, I have not seen it, or know what context it was used in, so I don't really have much say in this matter.

Scenes of violence can be used to stir emotion and convey a message. But alot of people are simply sick minded worms who think it's "cool" to draw someone being tortured to death.

[soul alive]

I'm currently in history of Japan. When Christianity was introduced to Japan, the shogunate thought the religion to be a threat to its authority, and erradicated Christianity. One of the reasons the Dutch were allowed to have relations during the closed door time was that the Dutch agreed not to send any missionaries. Despite the aversion to Christianity, the authorities liked the idea of execution by crucifixion, and adapted it into their judicial punishment system.

So in almost all Japanese culture and media the reality of what Christ's crucifixion meant is totally lost. I find it unbelievably sad that that is so.

[Heart of Sword]

Well Roll, I think Neo kind of represents Christ to some people, so it could have been like an allegory, like Aslan (Narnia) on the Stone Table. *shrugs*

[TheDrunkenNinja]

THat's bland and distasteful,however I keep my angry retorts (polite or otherwise) until it REALLY offends me...which doesn't happen very often. Some gruesomely violent anime do a crude form of crucifixion. I suppose they don't think Christians would be offended by this; a little disgruntled, maybe.

[Debitt]

[quote="TheDrunkenNinja"]Some gruesomely violent anime do a crude form of crucifixion. I suppose they don't think Christians would be offended by this]
The thing is, they don't HAVE that problem in Japan - a very very minute percent of the population is Christian out there, so anime studios don't have to worry about that necessarily.

[~Natsumi Lam~]

i would have to agree.... any mockery of christ and what he had to go through makes me feel uneasy.


~Natsumi Lam~

[uc pseudonym]

"undoubtedly"? Why?

Because Satanists use it. I know of at least one group personally and I can document evidence otherwise.

Am I misunderstanding your question?

[Yamato145]

Probably someone has already said it, but Neo is the main character of the Matrix who is looked messianically throughout the films, the artist was being a [mod snip, easy with the language].
But anywho, I've personally used similar images in many of the stories I have written, one example: in one of my stories the main character almost dies and then is suddenly filled with power (I wrote this one in high school, so it was a bit cheesy) when it happened he was in the crucified pose as he stood and his head fell limply for a moment. Then in a couple other stories I have had images such as these. So I mean, I personally don't think there is anything wrong with them, but some people (I'm sure) probably disagree with me, and would insist that it is blasphemous ... but of course I am a much more lenient Christian, I have never believed that cussing for example is a sin.
-YAMZ

[Yamato145]

Oh on that note, There was ONE instance in my stories where it was blasphemous (purposefully) I had a antagonist in one story that ... well ... we'll say he was a bit twisted. So when he isn't "out and about" he nails himself to a large cross on his wall. When our heroes arrive at his home this is where they find him. He was suggesting that he himself was God in human form. But other than that I've always used it as a way to express a large amount of power or for an emotional pull.

[the_lizardqueen]

*sighs* I go to a mainstream Art College and I'm rather scared to see what'll be popping up in my Anatomy class next week. For our final project, we're having to depict Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, with the serpent and the tree. So far I've seen some really...interesting concept art, like a decidedly feminist Eve crushing Adam's head into the ground and unabashedly enjoying the fruit, as well a couple really exaggerated and over-the-top depictions of Eve.

Who knows what'll happen, but at least it's based upon the Old Testament and less, well, personal. I can't imagine how I'd take it if we were depicting Christ or the Cross and people were joking around with it. But I guess at least the assignment is causing people to think about Biblical events...