Christmas Under Siege

[CephasWhite]

HolySoldier, you took the words right out of my mouth, bless you.

I find that really strange too Slater. It seems that even though most athiest people don't celebrate our Christian holidays, even Easter, I've noticed that they like to talk about it alot, and say Merry Christmas and everything. It's either just me, or they're interested in Christianity and don't know it. *shrugs*

You know what, either way, it will always be the same at Christmas time, and Christ will always be in it. It will never die nor will it be changed, because God won't allow it. I mean, come on, it's HIS birthday! We just need to have faith as well that it won't.

I'm still upset with the commercialism and resistance, but I'm just gonna pray for them, hope they'll open their eyes and see the truth, while I celebrate the day of our Lord Yihoshua coming down on earth with my family. I'm not worrying over the commercialism or the put downs from others, because no matter what happens, Christmas will ALWAYS stay the same.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[kaji]

While I think the extra scrooginess we see from anti-Christians around this time of year can be rediculas, its also important to note that Christmas was not a God instituted holiday. And though I love celebrating our Saviors birth, Christmas as we know it, has a far more pagen orrigin then a Christian one.

Only after years of very non-Christian celebrations around this time of the year, did the Church introduce Christmas as their way of trying to keep people from the druken-ludeness that typically occured.... Jesus wasnt even born this time of year, it is more likely that He was born somtime in the spring... There are no evergreen trees in the middle east as this tradition mostlikely came from the Nors holiday of Yule... And the wisemen that are present in the nativity scene probably did not find Jesus and his family untill years after he was born.

Again, I love celebrating my Saviors birth, but some things about Christmas just irk me to no end.

[Nate]

Hey kaji. Dude. I totally freakin' agree with what you're saying. Slightly off-topic (and if it causes flaming, I will edit my post), that is why I don't understand why some Christians won't celebrate Halloween due to the pagan origins, because Christmas' origins are equally (if not more) pagan.

And yeah...the Wise Men certainly didn't show up until a few months after Jesus was born (instead of the night of).

[oro!]

Kwanzaa's origins do not lie in harvest celebrations dating back to ancient Africa. Why would any culture be celebrating a harvest during the Winter Solstice? And as far as Maize, or corn, being a part ofthe celebration, it is not native to Africa but the Americas.

I get your point Yojimbo! The only problem with that statement is that it IS summer at this time of the year in Africa, at least from the equator down. I remember swimming in the ocean for Christmas and Thanksgiving when I lived there! Common mistake, tho'.

[holysoldier5000]

Only after years of very non-Christian celebrations around this time of the year, did the Church introduce Christmas as their way of trying to keep people from the druken-ludeness that typically occured.... Jesus wasnt even born this time of year, it is more likely that He was born somtime in the spring... There are no evergreen trees in the middle east as this tradition mostlikely came from the Nors holiday of Yule... And the wisemen that are present in the nativity scene probably did not find Jesus and his family untill years after he was born.

This is true, but that's not my point. By that same standard you could argue that we should rather observe Saturday as the Lord's day (being that it is the Sabbath) instead of Sunday. But no matter what day you observe the point is that you should have a day, which you give to the Lord, just as much as God gave the day to you. Christmas probably wasn't Jesus’ birthday, there were no wisemen till later, and even the concept of a barn maybe a little off for people back then kept their animals in the house with them on the lower level while they slept in the upper level for heat and safety. The point is that we take one day out of the year to observe the savior's birth. We are celebrating Jesus’ birthday! I don't think it matters as much to God what day we celebrate it on, but that we take the time to celebrate Jesus with a thankful heart. Christmas isn't perfect, nothing is, but it is special not because of what we have made it, but because it is a day we take to honor the Lord's birth.

[ashfire]

I was looking at the comics in the newspaper and this one I thought was great. Its called "Prickly City" by Scott Stantis.
Dec. 5, 2005. You have the little girl Carman sneaking into the frame and Yell "Merry Christmas". The last frame shows the ACLU building and coming out of it is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Todays you have the thing about how people want to change the name of Christmas and who is offended by certain names used for Christmas and how they should be said.
The Grinch is a manic depressive Who villain.

[yukinon]

But the Grinch was redeemed! His heart grew THREE sizes that day! And he even carved the roast beast!

...sorry, it's my family's Christmas tradition to watch that every Christmas eve. The REAL version, not the Jim Carrey one!

[ashfire]

Wasn't me it was what was in the comic.

[ashfire]

I heard about this today on Bill O Ralley's radio show.
It was in the L.A. Times.
Someone would allow a Nativity scene to be place on city property with shepherds, animals, and three wise men BUT NO Baby Jesus, Mary or Joseph.
Mr O Ralley and his co host had one laugh about that. How can there be a Nativity without the Holy Family? How dumb can it get?

[holysoldier5000]

Here is another one... Does anyone remember C.S. Lewis's "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe?" What was that spell of the White Witch again? Oh yeah, I remember, a never ending winter with "No Christmas!" Does any one remember that? I wonder if Lewis was making a point?

[Sakura15]

Here is another one... Does anyone remember C.S. Lewis's "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe?" What was that spell of the White Witch again? Oh yeah, I remember, a never ending winter with "No Christmas!" Does any one remember that? I wonder if Lewis was making a point? ]

Ha! you could be right ^-^

"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?"
-Brad Stine

Thats an awesome quote. Took the words right out of my mouth lol.

[kaji]

By that same standard you could argue that we should rather observe Saturday as the Lord's day (being that it is the Sabbath) instead of Sunday.

First off, the Sabbath was a God instituted comandment to remember Israels deliverance from slavery in Egypt. Christmas, on the other hand, was not commanded by God, Jesus, or any of the Apostles...

Second, we are not bound to the sabbath as Christians, it was abolished at the cross of Jesus Christ. The early church probably decided to meet on Sundays to distinguish them selves from other Jews.

Again, Im not saying that I think celebrating Christmas is bad. No, I love to celebrate my saviors birth. What I wanted to point out is that some times people put a lot of effort in to fighting for a celebration that God didnt even tell us to celebrate. Christmas is a man made holiday. Because of this, it can be expected that Christmas will be corrupted eventually.

Which brings me to my next point.

that is why I don't understand why some Christians won't celebrate Halloween due to the pagan origins, because Christmas' origins are equally (if not more) pagan.

I dont really agree, holidays like Halloween are completely pagen. Not only pagen, but Halloween is a celebration of the dead... While my family does not celebrate every aspect of what Christmas is now, we do still use this time of year to remember the birth of our savior.

When my wife and I went to Japan, I was surprised at the great number of people who participated in various rituals and religious celebrations, but did not understand them. However, after returning, I realized its really no differant here in the US.

[Stephen]

I dont really agree, holidays like Halloween are completely pagen. Not only pagen, but Halloween is a celebration of the dead...

So pagan holidays are ok if there only a little pagan? Can't say I agree with that. I think its more in what your celebrating. Many people can have a hoot on Halloween...and not be celebrating the dead. Just like many nonChristians celebrate Christmas without giving a hoot about Christ.

[kaji]

So pagan holidays are ok if there only a little pagan?

I wouldnt think so, but Im sure you already knew the answer to that question before you asked it.

I think its more in what your celebrating. Many people can have a hoot on Halloween...and not be celebrating the dead. Just like many nonChristians celebrate Christmas without giving a hoot about Christ.

I dont think its very wise to base your standard on what the world does. Just because non-Christians celebrate Christmas (for whatever reason) doesnt automatically justify a Christians participating in some non-Christian tradition...

Though I do agree that what you are actually celebrating is what is most important, and would be curious to know what part of Halloween a Christian would like to celebrate. And if it has nothing to do with the actual meaning of Halloween, then have your celebration at the same time?

[Midori]

Well, it's a cultural thing. Like Thanksgiving, even if it's not inherently Christian, that doesn't mean it's bad to follow the tradition. I mean, refusing to celebrate cultural things is like...not going to a school party just because it won't raise your grades.

[Nate]

And if it has nothing to do with the actual meaning of Halloween, then have your celebration at the same time?

For the same reason Christmas is on the pagan holiday of Yuletide.

By the way, you DO realize that All Saint's Day, a Christian holiday, is on October 31, right?

. . . and would be curious to know what part of Halloween a Christian would like to celebrate.

Dressing up as a Power Ranger and getting free candy. I'm pretty sure there's no commandment against that.

[CephasWhite]

First off, the Sabbath was a God instituted comandment to remember Israels deliverance from slavery in Egypt. Christmas, on the other hand, was not commanded by God, Jesus, or any of the Apostles...

Second, we are not bound to the sabbath as Christians, it was abolished at the cross of Jesus Christ. The early church probably decided to meet on Sundays to distinguish them selves from other Jews.

WHOA! Kaji, I'm stopping you there. Remember the 4th commandment: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy". This goes towards all Christians no matter if it's Saturday or Sunday. On the 7th day, we are supposed to rest from the workload of the week, thus that is the Sabbath.

Again, Im not saying that I think celebrating Christmas is bad. No, I love to celebrate my saviors birth. What I wanted to point out is that some times people put a lot of effort in to fighting for a celebration that God didnt even tell us to celebrate. Christmas is a man made holiday. Because of this, it can be expected that Christmas will be corrupted eventually.

Which brings me to my next point.
I dont really agree, holidays like Halloween are completely pagen. Not only pagen, but Halloween is a celebration of the dead...

Halloween was derived from the word Hallows' eve, for the farmers giving thanks for the harvest of the fields. Where they got Halloween from it and having the idea of the dead...I don't know.

[holysoldier5000]

It is important to remember the reason for the holiday. Christmas is a man made celebration created by the Catholic Church i.e. the name "Christ" + "Mass." It was a day set apart to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior. Now you don't have to be Catholic to celebrate Christmas, because anyone can set a day a side to celebrate the birth of Jesus. The point is where is your heart? Each and everyday we should be on our knees thanking God that he sent his one and only son in the form of a small baby to one day die on the cross for our sins. With out that glorious miracle none of us would ever make it to heaven. But because of that glorious miracle we too can have a friend and a savior in the person of Jesus Christ, the living Son of God. Celebrating Christmas isn't a God given command, but it is an honor. Just like Easter, Christmas is a special day in which we all can take the time to remember and thank the maker of the heavens and the earth for loving us so much that he gave his one and only son, Jesus.

God Bless
Merry Christmas
~HS5K

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I heard about this today on Bill O Ralley's radio show.
It was in the L.A. Times.
Someone would allow a Nativity scene to be place on city property with shepherds, animals, and three wise men BUT NO Baby Jesus, Mary or Joseph.
Mr O Ralley and his co host had one laugh about that. How can there be a Nativity without the Holy Family? How dumb can it get?

You know what I just noticed? A lot of people get offended by nativity scenes. Yet Jesus was an actual historical figure... so that means he had parents, and was born

Technically you can celebrate the birth of christ even if you didn't believe in his divinity... You could be all "he was a cool awesome moralist, so i'm gonna celebrate his birthday" even FREDRICH NEIZTSCHE, a German philosopher who was VERY anti-christian, and had wack philosophies; recognized Jesus Christ as an amazing moral man, and a possible canidate of an overman/superman. (Do I agree with what he wrote? like 99% of it no i do not)

It's funny how all the "important atheists" recognize how Jesus was an amazing teacher and a moralist and made differences and such (Emerson acknowleged this. As well did Ben Franklin) yet everyday atheists at school or whatever all go "Jesus was high on some drugs" or something

heck, we celebrate Washington's Birthday, Lincoln's Birthday, Columbus Day, etc...

[Debitt]

It's stunning how many people still refuse to at least believe that Jesus was a historical figure. I always find it funny when people tell me "Jesus never existed".

[Nate]

Yet Jesus was an actual historical figure... so that means he had parents, and was born

Technically you can celebrate the birth of christ even if you didn't believe in his divinity...

What Kodai said, mostly. Many atheists refuse to believe Jesus was born at all. It'd be like celebrating the tooth fairy's birthday...as far as they're concerned, He wasn't real, so what's the point?

[ashfire]

ACLU is the biggest enemy to God Loving Americans. When they attack Christmas and support some of the evilest ideas by groups who will do everything to change our society and cause the fall of this country.
One group is the Man Boy Love Society who is supported and protected by the ACLU. Its also hard to believe the fameous actors and rich people who pour money and support into the ACLU.
I think they should drop the "A" for American and change it to "E" for Evil.

[Roll]

ACLU is the biggest enemy to God Loving Americans. When they attack Christmas and support some of the evilest ideas by groups who will do everything to change our society and cause the fall of this country.
One group is the Man Boy Love Society who is supported and protected by the ACLU. Its also hard to believe the fameous actors and rich people who pour money and support into the ACLU.
I think they should drop the "A" for American and change it to "E" for Evil.

Heh, someone once told me that ACLU really stands for "Atheists, Lawyers, and Communists United."

[Monkey J. Luffy]

I was listening to the radio today, and I realised that they did not say the word Christmas once people are trying to rip God out of our country just like my teacher told me.

[holysoldier5000]

Heh, someone once told me that ACLU really stands for "Atheists, Lawyers, and Communists United."

How about this for their new name:
A.C.L.U. = Anti-Christian, Licentious, & Underhanded

[holysoldier5000]

How about this for their new name:
A.C.L.U. = Anti-Christian, Licentious, & Underhanded

I'm just making a joke here, but in all reality what the people of the ACLU need are our prayers. These people are misguided and up to no good but they are people still the same and in the spirit of Christmas we need to be like Christ and pray, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34). The ACLU are sinners yes, but sinners in need of a savior just as much as you and me. Please join me in praying that they may turn from their rebellious ways and run to the love of God before it is too late.

God Bless
HS5K

[CephasWhite]

Agreed. They shall be prayed for.

[Android raptor]

What Kodai said, mostly. Many atheists refuse to believe Jesus was born at all. It'd be like celebrating the tooth fairy's birthday...as far as they're concerned, He wasn't real, so what's the point?

Not true of me. I think Jesus probably was a real person, and an important historical figure at that. I just don't think he was born on December 25, cause' from what I hear, he was born in the spring.

And not all of us Atheists are those that constantly rant about how we think God and Jesus aren't real and try to force their beliefs on other people. I personaly don't like ANY person, be them religious or Atheist, forcing their beliefs on someone, because it is rude and unconstitutional

[mitsuki lover]

I would have to agree with Android Raptor that we should never force our personal beliefs on others.I also agree that December 25th is just an arbitrary date.If you read many commentators on the subject a lot of them will say that in fact Jesus may have been born in the Spring time of 4 B.C. or so because of the fact that the sheperds would never have had their sheep out so late in the year as Luke pictures it in his Gospel.
She also makes a good point about pigeon holing people according to what they believe.Not everyone who believes the same things are alike.
As far as it goes,I believe we also need a bit of a history lesson here.The fact of the matter is that Christmas wasn't a recognized holiday in the U.S. until the 1870s.
Also it was considered a "Pagan" celebration by the Puritans and outlawed in New England as well as Old England during the Cromwellian Commonwealth.

[holysoldier5000]

I think Jesus probably was a real person, and an important historical figure at that.

I'm not trying to push anything on you Android raptor, but I do have a thought for you and it is based off of logics. Jesus' claim to be God was recorded many times in the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Now either (1) The claims were false and... (a) He knew his claims were false, he made a deliberate misrepresentation, he was a liar, a hypocrite, a demon, and he was a fool for he died for it... or (b) He did not know his claims were false and he was sincerely deluded and a lunatic... or (2) His claims were true and he is Lord and... (a) you can accept them... or (b) you can reject them. The claims of Jesus Christ are so all-consuming that there is no alternative or middle road. Either a person must believe in the message of the Bible or reject it. If you doubt that then I challenge you to read the words of Jesus for yourself. You can find them in the Bible in the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

God Bless
~HS5K