Mangafanatic wrote up another excellent review!
http://christiananime.net/reviews.php?display=120
Tokyo Godfathers
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Tokyo Godfathers
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"A ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for." - John A. Shedd
"A ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for." - John A. Shedd
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Gypsy - Posts: 4056
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Hyrule
thanks for the review. I heard some mixed things about this one. It's always good to actualy get a review with more details of the goods and the many bad (in this case).
I appreciate the review, it was good. Thanks.
I appreciate the review, it was good. Thanks.
"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.." Prov 17:22
The word 'impossible' isn't in my dictionary... but I don't really have a dictionary you know? - Eikichi Onizuka.
Sorry, but I stop being a teacher at 5 o'clock. - Eikichi Onizuka.
The word 'impossible' isn't in my dictionary... but I don't really have a dictionary you know? - Eikichi Onizuka.
Sorry, but I stop being a teacher at 5 o'clock. - Eikichi Onizuka.
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agasfas - Posts: 2341
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:27 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
You're very welcome! And thanks to Gypsy for putting it up for me!
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Mangafanatic - Posts: 4918
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: In La-La land.
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Shao Feng-Li - Posts: 5187
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Idaho
500th post.
Firstly, don't missunderstand me Mangafantastic because I appreciate reviews on anime so I can censor what I watch, thats why we're here right? 
But I think you totally over emphasised, in a negative way, both the violence and the language. I just read the review and saw the movie yesterday and I'd have to say I quite enjoyed it, thought it was very well scripted and done, and would have given it a 7, but thats personal taste so no worries there. And have you even seen it Shao Feng-Li?? If you have't thats a pretty hasty judgment, if I may say so.
But in terms of the violence, you gave it a 5. One Piece and NGE got a 7, Nauscicau got a 4. I'd say that Nausciau was more violent, and to be only two away from NGE where people regularaly get shot and die and Evas get eaten, cities destroyed etc is a pretty big call. Akira got an 8 for violence and One Piece got a 7, that is very inconsistant, don't you think? I thought the violence was a 3 personally, it took up like 4 mins of the entire movie, and was not glorified and only present to help the plot along. The motorbike sliding into the two people crossing the street was black humour on par with Monty Phyton and funny, not violent. The guy getting shot was brief and you only saw the end results of 2 or 3 red dots, and the stabbing flash-back was like a second and taken out of context sounds horific, when it wasn't, and I don't think that I'm particulary desensertised to violence. To give it a 5 is not justifable.
As for the language, sure they used fa--ot and bas-ard alot, but don't we hear this everyday on the streets, in the classroom, and to a lesser extend as the f word wasn't used at all? To rate the bad language, which admittedly was consistent throughout the movie, a 6 makes one wonder how cocooned one is in christian circles, and not in the 'real' world of sinners, where this is everyday language and should not warrent a 6, a 3 would have been fine.
Finally the sexual content which I do think is important to warn viewers about, since one of the main charcters is gay, but not every oppertunity was used to laugh about or comment on homosexuality, and neither did the other female charcter indicate that she thought she was going to be sold into sex slavery, slavery sure, she says that but there was no indication, nor did it cross my mind that she assumes this, unless they subtitled it wrong and she does say so in japanese, in that case I apoligies.
As for that...
"and....?", I don't see how that is offencive or worth mentioning.
So, I enjoyed the movie, and looked past the fact that one of the trio had a perverse sense fo sexual identity, and looked to the that fact that all there chracters did deeply care about the others, even though they didn't want to show it. What do you think Mangafanatic??
And perhaps we can have a review of the rating system here, because as you can see it is very inconsistant, is that possible Gypsy? What do you reckon?
But I think you totally over emphasised, in a negative way, both the violence and the language. I just read the review and saw the movie yesterday and I'd have to say I quite enjoyed it, thought it was very well scripted and done, and would have given it a 7, but thats personal taste so no worries there. And have you even seen it Shao Feng-Li?? If you have't thats a pretty hasty judgment, if I may say so.
But in terms of the violence, you gave it a 5. One Piece and NGE got a 7, Nauscicau got a 4. I'd say that Nausciau was more violent, and to be only two away from NGE where people regularaly get shot and die and Evas get eaten, cities destroyed etc is a pretty big call. Akira got an 8 for violence and One Piece got a 7, that is very inconsistant, don't you think? I thought the violence was a 3 personally, it took up like 4 mins of the entire movie, and was not glorified and only present to help the plot along. The motorbike sliding into the two people crossing the street was black humour on par with Monty Phyton and funny, not violent. The guy getting shot was brief and you only saw the end results of 2 or 3 red dots, and the stabbing flash-back was like a second and taken out of context sounds horific, when it wasn't, and I don't think that I'm particulary desensertised to violence. To give it a 5 is not justifable.
As for the language, sure they used fa--ot and bas-ard alot, but don't we hear this everyday on the streets, in the classroom, and to a lesser extend as the f word wasn't used at all? To rate the bad language, which admittedly was consistent throughout the movie, a 6 makes one wonder how cocooned one is in christian circles, and not in the 'real' world of sinners, where this is everyday language and should not warrent a 6, a 3 would have been fine.
Finally the sexual content which I do think is important to warn viewers about, since one of the main charcters is gay, but not every oppertunity was used to laugh about or comment on homosexuality, and neither did the other female charcter indicate that she thought she was going to be sold into sex slavery, slavery sure, she says that but there was no indication, nor did it cross my mind that she assumes this, unless they subtitled it wrong and she does say so in japanese, in that case I apoligies.
While discussing the young couple who once occupied the house, they say that they never thought they'd have children because the wife worked at a night club, but, in light of the fact that the wife became pregnant, they conclude that people find time to "do what's necessary."
As for that...
"and....?", I don't see how that is offencive or worth mentioning.
So, I enjoyed the movie, and looked past the fact that one of the trio had a perverse sense fo sexual identity, and looked to the that fact that all there chracters did deeply care about the others, even though they didn't want to show it. What do you think Mangafanatic??
And perhaps we can have a review of the rating system here, because as you can see it is very inconsistant, is that possible Gypsy? What do you reckon?
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Zane - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:55 pm
Sorry, Zane. People that take the time to actually write the review in the first place also get to use the quick ratings however they see fit. We're not going to add a "did you find this review helpful?" button or anything of the sort. That's actually why we have the open threads to go with the official review, so people can post their thoughts as well.
||Skipping Tomorrows Webmanga||
"A ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for." - John A. Shedd
"A ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for." - John A. Shedd
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Gypsy - Posts: 4056
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: Hyrule
First, let me thank you for your comments. I do appreciate them, and the chance to once again look at my reivew writing and improve.
Perhaps I can clarify the way I write reviews. I am an older sister. As an older sister, I look a film it terms of "If my brother desired to see this movie, what would I want someone to tell me?" Regardless of the number I selected in the quick reference index, I notated every instance of violence in the film. From that notation, you should be able to judge for youself. That kind of indexing is going to be very individual. I did not mean to be horrific about the stabbing scene, but if it upset you, apologize. It seems to me that what I described was exactly what happened, wasn't it? It has been sometime since I've seen this movie.
On the flip side of the examples you gave, there's the Full Moon Wo Sagashite review which rated the violence in that series to be a "2." Having seen FMwS, there's definitely three times as much violence in this film as that series. In the end, the index is going to reflect the reviewer's own person convictions, which is, yet again, another reason why it's so important to be specific in the body of the review.
This point, I'm afraid, I cannot agree with you on. My job as a reviewer is not to say "How horrific is this language compared to what one would hear in the workplace?" The index for the language rating is supposed to be gaged by 0=no swearing 10=once every sentence. Furthermore, I'm slightly upset by the insinuation that it's some measure of your "shelteredness" when you're still upset and sensative to language. When society deems the "f" word only mildly offensive, should I not consider it in my review? When we fail to be upset by what is wrong, we will fail to stand out from the world.
If I was wrong on the sex slave score, I apologize most profusely. Such an insinuation is not something I would jump to-- Ask anyone
, but, I could have misread the insinuations. That is quite possible. The rest, I suppose would be an example of differences in opinion. I shall try to be more specific in my next review and make fewer broad statement such as those you found misleading.
My policy has always been "better safe than sorry." If I were a parent with children who might want to see this movie, I would want to know that was there. Just a thought.
Whether you enjoy the film, is, of course, upto you. I would never dare to tell someone what to think of a movie, and that was never my intent, I assure you. All I wanted to do was warn people against the undercurrent themes of acceptance of things that are clearly violations of God's standards. As a viewer, there may be a place to "look past" certain elements in a film. As a reviewer, "looking past" some thing in a movie because it's "balance" by another admirable element would be irresponsible.
Zane wrote:But in terms of the violence, you gave it a 5. One Piece and NGE got a 7, Nauscicau got a 4. I'd say that Nausciau was more violent, and to be only two away from NGE where people regularaly get shot and die and Evas get eaten, cities destroyed etc is a pretty big call. Akira got an 8 for violence and One Piece got a 7, that is very inconsistant, don't you think? I thought the violence was a 3 personally, it took up like 4 mins of the entire movie, and was not glorified and only present to help the plot along. The motorbike sliding into the two people crossing the street was black humour on par with Monty Phyton and funny, not violent. The guy getting shot was brief and you only saw the end results of 2 or 3 red dots, and the stabbing flash-back was like a second and taken out of context sounds horific, when it wasn't, and I don't think that I'm particulary desensertised to violence. To give it a 5 is not justifable.
Perhaps I can clarify the way I write reviews. I am an older sister. As an older sister, I look a film it terms of "If my brother desired to see this movie, what would I want someone to tell me?" Regardless of the number I selected in the quick reference index, I notated every instance of violence in the film. From that notation, you should be able to judge for youself. That kind of indexing is going to be very individual. I did not mean to be horrific about the stabbing scene, but if it upset you, apologize. It seems to me that what I described was exactly what happened, wasn't it? It has been sometime since I've seen this movie.
On the flip side of the examples you gave, there's the Full Moon Wo Sagashite review which rated the violence in that series to be a "2." Having seen FMwS, there's definitely three times as much violence in this film as that series. In the end, the index is going to reflect the reviewer's own person convictions, which is, yet again, another reason why it's so important to be specific in the body of the review.
As for the language, sure they used fa--ot and bas-ard alot, but don't we hear this everyday on the streets, in the classroom, and to a lesser extend as the f word wasn't used at all? To rate the bad language, which admittedly was consistent throughout the movie, a 6 makes one wonder how cocooned one is in christian circles, and not in the 'real' world of sinners, where this is everyday language and should not warrent a 6, a 3 would have been fine.
This point, I'm afraid, I cannot agree with you on. My job as a reviewer is not to say "How horrific is this language compared to what one would hear in the workplace?" The index for the language rating is supposed to be gaged by 0=no swearing 10=once every sentence. Furthermore, I'm slightly upset by the insinuation that it's some measure of your "shelteredness" when you're still upset and sensative to language. When society deems the "f" word only mildly offensive, should I not consider it in my review? When we fail to be upset by what is wrong, we will fail to stand out from the world.
Finally the sexual content which I do think is important to warn viewers about, since one of the main charcters is gay, but not every oppertunity was used to laugh about or comment on homosexuality, and neither did the other female charcter indicate that she thought she was going to be sold into sex slavery, slavery sure, she says that but there was no indication, nor did it cross my mind that she assumes this, unless they subtitled it wrong and she does say so in japanese, in that case I apoligies.
If I was wrong on the sex slave score, I apologize most profusely. Such an insinuation is not something I would jump to-- Ask anyone
, but, I could have misread the insinuations. That is quite possible. The rest, I suppose would be an example of differences in opinion. I shall try to be more specific in my next review and make fewer broad statement such as those you found misleading. As for that...
My policy has always been "better safe than sorry." If I were a parent with children who might want to see this movie, I would want to know that was there. Just a thought.
So, I enjoyed the movie, and looked past the fact that one of the trio had a perverse sense fo sexual identity, and looked to the that fact that all there chracters did deeply care about the others, even though they didn't want to show it. What do you think Mangafanatic??
Whether you enjoy the film, is, of course, upto you. I would never dare to tell someone what to think of a movie, and that was never my intent, I assure you. All I wanted to do was warn people against the undercurrent themes of acceptance of things that are clearly violations of God's standards. As a viewer, there may be a place to "look past" certain elements in a film. As a reviewer, "looking past" some thing in a movie because it's "balance" by another admirable element would be irresponsible.
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Mangafanatic - Posts: 4918
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: In La-La land.
Cool, cheers for replying Mangafanatic, its was good to hear what you think. I see all your points, and you did explain yourself well. Regarding the violence, as you pointed out it is pretty ambigous and I'm glad you agree with that (and yes the female character is seen standing holding the bloody knife after having stabbed a person). I didn't intend to accuse you of telling people what to think of the film, if it sounded that way, sorry.
I see your point about the language, respect that and apoligise, that was quick to speak on my behalf, I admittedly compare it to what I hear everyday, which I shouldn't. So, cheers again for explaining that, and no hard feelings Manga.
And Gypsy, I wasn't suggesting a "how helpful was this review button", but thanks for pointing out the fact that this forum is used to discuss those reviews... which I did without knowing it.
I see your point about the language, respect that and apoligise, that was quick to speak on my behalf, I admittedly compare it to what I hear everyday, which I shouldn't. So, cheers again for explaining that, and no hard feelings Manga.
And Gypsy, I wasn't suggesting a "how helpful was this review button", but thanks for pointing out the fact that this forum is used to discuss those reviews... which I did without knowing it.
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Zane - Posts: 498
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Mr. SmartyPants - Posts: 12541
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I enjoyed it a lot. And Mangafanatic, I don't think this story was really trying to condone homosexuality. You seem to imply that.
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rocklobster - Posts: 8903
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rocklobster wrote:I enjoyed it a lot. And Mangafanatic, I don't think this story was really trying to condone homosexuality. You seem to imply that.
There was really nothing implied about it. I came out and just said it, since I really felt that way.
And I guess where that will be where we will just have to agree to disagree.
Every year in Uganda, innumerable children simply. . . disappear. These children all stolen under the cover of darkness from their homes and impressed into the guerilla armies of the LRA [Lord's Resistance Army]. In the deserts of Uganda, they are forced to witness the mindless slaughter of other children until they themselves can do nothing but kill. Kill. These children, generally ranging from ages 5-12, are brainwashed into murdering in the name of the resistance and into stealing other children from their beds to suffer the same fate.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
Because of this genocide of innocence, hundred and hundreds of children live every night sleeping in public places miles from their homes, because they know that if the do not-- they will disappear. They will become just another number in this genocide to which the international community has chosen to turn a blind eye. They will become, in affect, invisible-- Invisible Children.
But there are those who are trying to fight against this slaughter of Uganda's children. They fight to protect these "invisible children." Please, help them help a country full of children who know nothing by fear. Help save the innocence. For more information concerning how you can help and how you can get an incredible video about this horrific reality, visit the Invisible Children home page.
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Mangafanatic - Posts: 4918
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:00 am
- Location: In La-La land.
I think the whole point of the trio is they were the lowest of the low in Japan.
[spoiler]A man who abandoened his family, a transvestite and a girl who stabbed her father. None of them think they have anyplace to go back to. They pick through the trash, they steal grave offerings.[/spoiler]
Yet they're the ones who take it on themselves to help this baby girl.
[spoiler]And in the end, they all find that the doorway back home is opened to them... sort of an Eastern outlook on it of course[/spoiler]
[spoiler]A man who abandoened his family, a transvestite and a girl who stabbed her father. None of them think they have anyplace to go back to. They pick through the trash, they steal grave offerings.[/spoiler]
Yet they're the ones who take it on themselves to help this baby girl.
[spoiler]And in the end, they all find that the doorway back home is opened to them... sort of an Eastern outlook on it of course[/spoiler]
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Arnobius - Posts: 2870
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Godly Paladin - Posts: 2016
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Are you justifying it or simply providing an explanation? At any rate, just because it's culturally accepted doesn't mean it's right.
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Godly Paladin - Posts: 2016
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Shao Feng-Li - Posts: 5187
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Merely explaining the context. The movie certainly wasn't promoting it.
It wasn't? I guess I missed something, then... O_o
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Godly Paladin - Posts: 2016
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 10:21 am
- Location: Missouri
Godly Paladin wrote:It wasn't? I guess I missed something, then... O_o
Just like the movie wasn't promoting bums who run out of their families over gambling debts or children who stab their fathers... no, just because a character was a transvestite does not mean it was approving the lifestyle.
Like I said earlier, these three were made out to be the lowest people possible, the type people would call useless, worthless... the ones who had nothing to gain by helping out a helpless baby.
This certainly wasn't a pro-homosexual lifestyle movie. Note that other characters were rather appalled by his actions.
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Arnobius - Posts: 2870
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm
Yep, think about it. Sailor Moon has homosexuals in it too. But it also doesn't seem to approve or condemn their behavior.
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rocklobster - Posts: 8903
- Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:27 pm
- Location: Planet Claire
rocklobster wrote:Yep, think about it. Sailor Moon has homosexuals in it too. But it also doesn't seem to approve or condemn their behavior.
I can only speak of the anime, but I get the impression that the characters tend to be shocked when they find out. In Sailor Moon S, it's sort of vague enough that people can get away with the "cousins" in the dub. In Sailor Moon Stars (the next appearance of the duo), it's fairly obvious as they exchange innuendo... though the other characters are still shocked or repulsed.
I have heard that the manga is both more obvious and more in favor, but I can't verify this. Anyway, I've diverted this topic enough with the post.
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Arnobius - Posts: 2870
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm
Anyway, I've diverted this topic enough with the post.
Yes, you're right. Another thread is needed if we all want to continue this sort of thing.
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Godly Paladin - Posts: 2016
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 10:21 am
- Location: Missouri
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Godly Paladin - Posts: 2016
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 10:21 am
- Location: Missouri
Thats what I thought AnimeHeretic, regarding the fact that the three godfathers are the underclass in Japanese society. Thats also why I quite enjoyed the film and why I think it did okay critically in japan (correct me if I'm wrong), because it dealt with social jutice and was a social commentary on japanese hierarchy and class system. By making the lowest of the lowest the protanganists/heros of the film, the director commented on the undervalued nature of poor persons in japanese society.
I.e. Like I said earlier I looked past the homo thing, and enjoyed the film and what the director was commentating.
I.e. Like I said earlier I looked past the homo thing, and enjoyed the film and what the director was commentating.
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Zane - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:55 pm
Zane wrote:Thats what I thought AnimeHeretic, regarding the fact that the three godfathers are the underclass in Japanese society. Thats also why I quite enjoyed the film and why I think it did okay critically in japan (correct me if I'm wrong), because it dealt with social jutice and was a social commentary on japanese hierarchy and class system. By making the lowest of the lowest the protanganists/heros of the film, the director commented on the undervalued nature of poor persons in japanese society.
I don't know if the dealing with the underclass brought them success or not, but it was seen as a rare acknowledgement of the problems of the underclasses (the homeless, the foreigners, etc) in Japan that tend to be ignored.
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Arnobius - Posts: 2870
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm
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