Christmas Under Siege

[Wakarimashta!]

I'd say that's an overstatement. I doubt it's higher than 60-70%. And of course it's a sample survey, can't get all 290 some odd million people.

Irregardless of how inflated those numbers may seem statistically, the point is that a majority of America believes in Christianity.

[KhakiBlueSocks]

I'm not saying it's wrong. Not in the least! I would NEVER say that it was wrong!

What I'm trying to say is that this arguement between saying "Happy Holidays" and "Merry Christmas" is really REALLY dumb! Why are we worrying about what OTHERS are saying during this time of the year? Just worry about what comes out of YOUR OWN MOUTH. Someone who says "happy holidays" is no better or no worse than someone who says "merry Christmas." If we do that, then people will have to start saying "Happy Haunkkah" or "Happy Kwanzaa".

To be quite blunt, I'm not seeing where any change is going to come from this.

[Debitt]

I think the problem with being forced to say "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas" is not the concept of forcing things down someone's throat, nor worrying about the nature of either phrase.

I think the actual problem lies in the hypocracy of the "anti-Christmas" argument - there is NOTHING wrong with choosing to say one thing over another. There is, however, something very wrong when people who are trying to be "unoffensive" fly up in someone's face because the word "Christmas" was directed towards them. I'm very well aware that the situation may be different in different areas of the country, but here in CA I've been yelled at many times for "forcing my beliefs" on people by simply saying "Merry Christmas". Now, think about it this way: I'M not allowed to force anything on someone else, yet they're allowed to put boundaries on what I can and cannot say?

My problem with this entire ordeal is this - I don't care what anyone else says during the holiday season, but I myself REFUSE to be forced by someone else to omit "Christmas" from my vocabulary in the name of political correctness.

EDIT: Note that I don't plan to stop saying "Christmas", however it is tiresome getting yelled at about it all the time.

[Yojimbo]

I think the problem with being forced to say "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas" is not the concept of forcing things down someone's throat, nor worrying about the nature of either phrase.

I think the actual problem lies in the hypocracy of the "anti-Christmas" argument - there is NOTHING wrong with choosing to say one thing over another. There is, however, something very wrong when people who are trying to be "unoffensive" fly up in someone's face because the word "Christmas" was directed towards them. I'm very well aware that the situation may be different in different areas of the country, but here in CA I've been yelled at many times for "forcing my beliefs" on people by simply saying "Merry Christmas". Now, think about it this way: I'M not allowed to force anything on someone else, yet they're allowed to put boundaries on what I can and cannot say?

My problem with this entire ordeal is this - I don't care what anyone else says during the holiday season, but I myself REFUSE to be forced by someone else to omit "Christmas" from my vocabulary in the name of political correctness.

Very well put. I too would have absolutely no problem with that. Heck it could be October 20th and a Muslim guy could come up to me and say "Happy 15th Day of Ramadan" (yeah for Ramadan:eyeroll: ) and I would just smile and say yep.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Yeesh... After reading all this, I'm more happy that we don't celebrate Christmas.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

A Christian that doesn't celebrate Jesus birth? That's... different.

[Shao Feng-Li]

A Christian that doesn't celebrate Jesus birth? That's... different.

For starters we aren't Roman Catholic and He wasn't even born this time a year and this isn't how we're to worship Him, at least from what I understand. With the interest of not starting a debate here, it would be best not uhm... debated here.

But yeah the holidays are a pain. My relatives kind of ruined them for me. It's a long story.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

That is an awsome quote MSP.

Yes it really has gotten out of hand, whenever someone says "Happy Holidays" to me, I always reply with Merry Christmas.

I wonder if Christmas Tree Shops will change their name to Holiday Tree Shops...

by an athest's definition, I should be offended by a guy who's obsessed with "pink flying unicorns" and who worships them and dreams of them and has holidays for them. Hey! Linus was sitting outside on halloween night for the great pumpkin to give him toys! Shouldn't I be offended by that? That oughta be censored!

For starters we aren't Roman Catholic and He wasn't even born this time a year and this isn't how we're to worship Him, at least from what I understand. With the interest of not starting a debate here, it would be best not uhm... debated here.

1. Hh.... since when did only roman catholics celebrate christmas? (I'm not catholic, and I still celebrate christmas)
2. I've heard that Jesus was actually born sometime in the spring. Nethertheless, we celebrate his birth on Dec. 25 as a tradition.

(note that I am not debating)

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Hi Shao,

Is it okay to PM? Because I did.

Thanks

[holysoldier5000]

Where the problem largely comes in is the fact that the “Equal Rightsâ€

[holysoldier5000]

'The Night Before ******mas!'

'Twas the night before Christmas and Santa's a wreck...
How to live in a world that's politically correct?
His workers no longer would answer to "Elves"
"Vertically Challenged" they were calling themselves
And labor conditions at the north pole
Were alleged by the union to stifle the soul
Four reindeer had vanished, without much propriety
Released to the wilds by the Humane Society
And equal employment had made it quite clear
That Santa had better not use just reindeer
So Dancer and Donner, Comet and Cupid
Were replaced with 4 pigs, and you know that looked stupid!

The runners had been removed from his sleigh;
The ruts were termed dangerous by the E P A
And people had started to call for the cops
When they heard sled noises on their roof-tops
Second-hand smoke from his pipe had his workers quite frightened
His fur trimmed red suit was called "Unenlightened"

And to show you the strangeness of life's ebbs and flows
Rudolf was suing over unauthorised use of his nose
And had gone on Geraldo, in front of the nation
Demanding millions in over-due compensation

So, half of the reindeer were gone; and his wife
Who suddenly said she'd enough of this life
Joined a self-help group, packed, and left in a whiz
Demanding from now on her title was Ms

And as for the gifts, why, he'd ne'er had a notion
That making a choice could cause so much commotion
Nothing of leather, nothing of fur
Which meant nothing for him. And nothing for her
Nothing that might be construed to pollute
Nothing to aim. Nothing to shoot
Nothing that clamoured or made lots of noise
Nothing for just girls. Or just for boys
Nothing that claimed to be gender specific
Nothing that's warlike or non-pacific

No candy or sweets ... they were bad for the tooth
Nothing that seemed to embellish the truth
And fairy tales, while not yet forbidden
Were like Ken and Barbie, better off hidden
For they raised the hackles of those psychological
Who claimed the only good gift was ecological

No baseball, no football ... someone could get hurt;
Besides; playing sports exposed kids to dirt
Dolls were said to be sexist, and should be passe;
And Nintendo would rot your entire brain away

So Santa just stood there, dishevelled, perplexed;
He just could not figure out what to do next
He tried to be merry, tried to be gay
But you've got to be careful with that word today
His sack was quite empty, limp to the ground;
Nothing fully acceptable was to be found

Something special was needed, a gift that he might
Give to all without angering the left or the right
A gift that would satisfy, with no indecision
Each group of people, every religion;
Every ethnicity, every hue
Everyone, everywhere ... even you
So here is that gift, it's price beyond worth ...
"May you and your loved ones enjoy peace on earth"

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Great poem Ben! Did you write that one?

[holysoldier5000]

Great poem Ben! Did you write that one?

No I didn't write it. I got it off the Internet but I don't know who wrote it. Here is the link: http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/xmas/pc-night-before.html

[DaughterOfZion]

god has said we as christians will be discreminated against. and as we now see christmas is no exception.

[Warrior4Christ]

It is very sad to hear, but fortunately in my part of the globe it hasn't become "that dirty C-word!" (yet).

(In Strong Bad voice: )
Who put the Christ in CHRISTmas? I dunno. Jesus Christ probably.

[yukinon]

When I was working this summer, we weren't allowed to wish people "Happy 4th of July" for fear of offending people.

People are idiots.

[ashfire]

Does it bother everyone when a add company uses a Christmas song for a add? Take Honda Motors using "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" and turn the song into "We Wish You Happy Honda Days".

[Azier the Swordsman]

It would depend on the reasoning. If it's done with the intention of advertisement purposes, I see nothing wrong with parody of a famous Christmas song. It would depend on rather or not they are actually doing with a direct bias against Christmas or Christianity, which I woudn't at the moment believe they are.

[Slater]

yeah, it does bother me... that ad above all others. It's so overt and blatently a way of saying that they don't care about Christ, you can almost smell it in their voices as it comes through the speakers.

[Scribs]

Does it bother everyone when a add company uses a Christmas song for a add? Take Honda Motors using "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" and turn the song into "We Wish You Happy Honda Days".

I was thinking of posting something about that on this thread too. Not only are they changing it to a car comercial, but also changing it to holidays. It is disgusting. Now if it had been, "We wish you a Merry Chrystler-mas" even that would have been a little less obnoxious, but no, it is a double attack against a good old carol.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I just think those versions of Christmas carols/jingles are stupid and not necessary.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Keep in mind Christianity is the religion/philosophy with the most enemies. If you're islam and you tell that to somebody they go "oh really? cool! tell me your faith!" but once you are all "I'm Christian" they start throwing words at you like "IGNORANT! CLOSE MINDED! You're following a boring bad religion"

[mitsuki lover]

The more I read and hear stuff like this the more I am convinced that Christianity is much better off when it's a minority religion and not in the majority.What does it really matter if some Atheist or Buddhist perfers Happy Holidays to Merry Christmas?It isn't going to do any damage to Christianity.What does do damage to Christianity is when too many Christians forget that Christ told Pilate that his kingdom was not of this world and try to turn Christmas into another materialistic
holiday.Perhaps we are the ones who really need a reality check when it comes to this.I mean after all no-one is preventing us from wishing others Merry Christmas.Besides there is no real harm in saying Happy Holidays.

[Nate]

I mean after all no-one is preventing us from wishing others Merry Christmas.

Uh, dude. Did you even READ this thread? That is EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING. We are being prevented from saying "Merry Christmas" in schools and workplaces.

I'm all about tolerance, but we can't be doormats, ML. Where do we draw the line? You may say, "Oh, so we can't say Merry Christmas. No big deal" and accept it...but if you waver in the face of the enemy...the enemy will take more and more. Until eventually you won't even be able to say "God" without being arrested and charged with a hate crime.

Yes, that's a ridiculous scenario...but you know what? At the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens one day, because of Christians who sit there and say, "Oh, it's not a big deal that we can't do this." Remember Revelation 3:16:

"So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

[glitch1501]

i was suprised today after watching a honda commercial that they took the song "We wish you a merry christmas" and changed it to "we wish you a happy holidays"

i was like...wow....

[Tarnish]

Well, they were saying "Honda Days" but...yeah. It's still pretty ridiculous.

[holysoldier5000]

Jesus has a few things to say about Christians being persecuted and there is no better words then the master's words on the subject. "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Luke 10:16). This is important to remember for those who would renounce and reject the message of Christmas for they not only are rejecting Jesus but they are rejecting God. And that’s serious! So their war is not really against Christmas but against God. Us Christians are the front line warriors in this battle who are being pressed upon from every side, and the battle field is not only Christmas. This New Testament record is an amazing account of mighty deeds and historic events of Jesus besides from just Christmas. Such as his miracles, the evidence of the intrusion of the spiritual kingdom -- that invisible realm of reality -- into the visible realm. Jesus capped it all, of course, by showing that he had solved the one problem which is insoluble to every other man -- the problem of death. He rose from the dead! Who else has ever done anything like that? What other philosopher, what other thinker, what other man who has ever challenged men has ever done anything like that -- solved that basic problem of life? That is why I know Jesus Christ is the truth, because he solved the problem of death. And this is why the enemies of the Scriptures fight so fiercely to destroy the historicity of these events, if they can. They want us to think it does not matter whether these things were historically true. Whether Christmas is true. Of course they are historically true, and of course it greatly matters, for these events demonstrate that Jesus was the truth.
But let us not give into despair when we come under attack for the Lord gives good news for the persecuted, “Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophetsâ€

[Roll]

Wow, HS5K, you really said it!

[Slater]

wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... what school prevents students from being able to say Merry Christmas? There's nothing illegal about students saying it, and... I mean, that's unbelievable. I go to SFSU, one of the most liberal and anti-Christian places on the globe and students are allowed to say Merry Christmas. Even a couple of my teachers say it (one of which who doesn't say BC when naming dates, but "Before Christ"). I find it hard to believe that students would actually get in trouble for saying it when that doesn't happen here.

[Android raptor]

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I believe in freedom of religion, and this is stupid. Though, I do think that if one is going to put a nativity display in a public school, they should have a menorah or something as well, due to the fact that public schools are very diverse now.