aikido

[Wise Dragon]

If its just to simply show respect to the founder then I don't think that there is anything wrong; but if it seems to be more idolizing the person then you may want to talk to the instructor and get his viewpoint before you jump to conclusions.

[Ingemar]

Heck I remember one of the highest ranking shihans at a seminar I went to was an Egyptian Muslim and he would, respectfully, not bow to anyone or to the picture of Ueshiba.

I wonder: would any master Aikidoka make the same exemption for a Christian, or has Western accomodationism and spinelessness come to such a point that no Christian is allowed to decline certain actions due to what they perceive is incompatibility with dearly-held beliefs?

And what would "authoritative" Aikidoka feel about this Muslim shihan? Would they say the martial art he practices is "not Aikido?"

I often wish to practice a fighting art that is completely divorced from anything spiritual. Fighting may be a "necessary evil," but so is what we do in the restroom. Hardly any human being I know feels the need to spiritualize that.

[Yojimbo]

I wonder: would any master Aikidoka make the same exemption for a Christian, or has Western accomodationism and spinelessness come to such a point that no Christian is allowed to decline certain actions due to what they perceive is incompatibility with dearly-held beliefs?

And what would "authoritative" Aikidoka feel about this Muslim shihan? Would they say the martial art he practices is "not Aikido?"

I often wish to practice a fighting art that is completely divorced from anything spiritual. Fighting may be a "necessary evil," but so is what we do in the restroom. Hardly any human being I know feels the need to spiritualize that.

You're jumping to conclusions. I never saw personally saw anyone else that would not bow. Doesn't mean that if a Christian did they'd be ostracised. I have no idea if there were other Aikidoka that were Christian because they obviously didn't make it known when I was there. And if they were bowing obviously did not bother them.

I'm confused as to what you're actually trying to get at anyway. I was only making a statement that if one does not wish to be bow they wouldn't have to. The US Aikido Federation was never full of prudes or extreme traditionalists anyway.

[oro!]

Hmmm, I suppose that brings up a question for me. I attend a very traditional dojo. Etiquette it most important...bowing, verbally thanking the instructor, not walking in front of anyone etc. Also because it is so traditional, they have a picture of O'sensei, flowers, a mirror and a little wooden house thing on the shomen. Might that be a shrine? The sensei rarely talks about anything spiritual and once told me they bow to O'sensei's picture above the shomen in respect for his creating the art. But if that is a shrine, would it be considered unchrisitian to bow to the shomen because it's there too?

That looks like idolatry to me. Whatever people say, martial arts did start with that kind of thing. Just read Jackie Chan's biography. Of course, the shrine they had was of ancestors, not the founder, so I am unsure.

[Wise Dragon]

I read Jackie Chans biography and I never really got the impression that the shrine in the accademy was a direct part of the arts. Since the arts were often trained by monks its not surprising that there religion may bleed through; but that souldn't have any ground if the religion is taken out of it.

About the current subject, It really does sound like Idolatry; but I can't say for certain because Im not there. Like some people might think that bowing in a Dojo could be sacreligious. Maybee you could try getting a picture?