Who likes Teen Titans?

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Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:12 am

termyt wrote:However, the existence of the Justice League has never been established in the Teen Titans show. Including any reference to them now would be confusing and out of place. Their existence (along with the existence of multiple heroes calling themselves Robin) is only assumed because of other sources which have no real connection to the cartoon.


I understand your point, in terms of writing (that adding them now would not help the series in terms of quality). However, due to the fundamental nature of the comic book world, almost everything is connected. While each incarnation of superheroes is technically its own entity (and hence is not strictly tied to continuity), fans still assume that it will hold to some elements (Bruce Wayne being Batman, for example). For example, Trigon was being called Trigon long before his name was actually revealed.

Overall, however, I meant to say that I would prefer that the series have been designed with allusions to other superheroes, not that I felt this arc should have included them.
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:17 pm

Blitzkrieg1701 wrote:But, if you really wanna chew on some connundrums about Robin's identity, here's a few: 1. I'm not the most reliable comic book scholar, so this is probobly wrong, but Grayson was already Nightwing when he became a Titan, wasn't he? I thought the only actual "Robin" in the Titans was Drake. 2. Aizer already pointed out that the Titan's Robin is the design previously used for Drake's Robin, but it gets more complicated. Batman showed up in a few episodes of Static Shock, at one point saying that Robin had gone off and joined the Titans. Thing is, that was DEFFINATELY Drake he was talking about, since Static Shock was indirectly tied into Batman: The Animated Series, which had already introduced Drake as Robin.


To make it even messier, keep in mind that this would have to be indefinately a completely different universe due to the flashback of [SPOILER]what the Joker did to Tim Drake[/SPOILER] in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. We learn that after the incident Batman [SPOILER]forbade Robin to ever put on the suit again.[/SPOILER]

But it could still be argued for now that Tim Drake may have [SPOILER]kept the suit, and left defiantly to establish himself with the Titans.[/SPOILER] Could this explain why we never see Batman in the new series or never learn about Robin's past? But keep in mind that Robin and Starfire are not married in BB: ROTJ, further screwing with this theory.
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Postby ChristianKitsune » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:24 pm

Azier the Swordsman wrote:To make it even messier, keep in mind that this would have to be indefinately a completely different universe due to the flashback of [SPOILER]what the Joker did to Tim Drake[/SPOILER] in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. We learn that after the incident Batman [SPOILER]forbade Robin to ever put on the suit again.[/SPOILER]

But it could still be argued for now that Tim Drake may have [SPOILER]kept the suit, and left defiantly to establish himself with the Titans.[/SPOILER] Could this explain why we never see Batman in the new series or never learn about Robin's past? But keep in mind that Robin and Starfire are not married in BB: ROTJ, further screwing with this theory.


Actually this Robin isn't Tim Drake.. he is D_ick Greyson.. (remember when Larry came and his said his name was Kcid Nosyreg that is Robin's Allias spelled backwards... ^^

and I recall little watching batman and he calling Robin "D_ick"

also, after the Titans and ever during

[spoiler] D_ick becomes Nightwing[/spoiler] Remember that episode that starfire goes to the future?
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Postby mitsuki lover » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:06 pm

I always thought that TT Robin was Grayson as well because of the whole
How Long Is Forever? ep. where Starfire accidentally time trips to the
future and finds Robin has become Nightwing.
Then again this could be CN's way of also screwing up with the DC universe
the way DC used to do before CRISIS came out.
So for all we know this might not even be Grayson or Drake.
Although is it my imagination or in one ep. didn't they have the name
Tim Drake on a bulletin board?
This followed the How Long Is Forever?ep. :dizzy:
Then again remember in the future Grayson replaces Bruce as the
Batman.This is after Bruce retires.(See I believe The Shadow Of The
Bat comic series.)
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Postby Blitzkrieg1701 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:36 pm

Well, first off I need to retract one of my statements. In the comics, Grayson actuallu DID join the Titans before becoming Nightwing. My bad. But hey, I never once claimed to know what on Earth I was talking about. :sweat:

Good point about Return of the Joker though. I regret that i have yet to the all of that movie at once, though, so it wasn't very fresh in my mind.

and I recall little watching batman and he calling Robin "D_ick"


Which episodes? The early ones featured Grayson, but then they switched to Drake.

Although is it my imagination or in one ep. didn't they have the name
Tim Drake on a bulletin board?


I remember the scene you're talking about, but I can't for the life of me figure out which episode it was in. I'd like to take a closer look at it, too, 'caue I remember it also had the name "Jason Todd" (ill-fated Robin #2)

I meant to say that I would prefer that the series have been designed with allusions to other superheroes, not that I felt this arc should have included them.


The trick, of course, would be figuring out how to make those allusions light enough to avoid bogging the show down without simply being annoying. I seem to recall that the ever so brief allusion to Batman ("I already have a father") just left everyone wanting more. So hard to keep us finicky viewers happy...
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Postby termyt » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:08 am

uc pseudonym wrote:Overall, however, I meant to say that I would prefer that the series have been designed with allusions to other superheroes, not that I felt this arc should have included them.

Actually, I do agree with you. As it stands, though, it would be interesting to see Titan crossovers in a series that it would work in - like Justice League Unlimited.

I’m enjoying the conversation, so I case it will help, let me give you all some back ground of the Titans in the comic book.

The original Titans were formed back in the 60’s with Robin (Grayson), Kid Flash, and Wonder Girl. Throw Aqualad and Speedy in there now and again for good measure.

In the 80’s, after a hiatus, the Titans reform with the team closer resembling the cartoon titans. Raven brings the original Titans plus former Titan Changeling (Beast Boy) and new to the Titans Cyborg and Starfire to face the threat posed by her father. This is the Titans team that the vast majority of material is being barrowed from for the cartoon. Terra, Bummblebee, Brother Blood, HIVE, Trigon, and Slade are all introduced during this timeframe.

Shortly after this team forms, Robin changes his name to Nightwing.

Grayson is the one romantically involved with (and almost marries) Starfire.

Different incarnations

Grayson is the only Robin to be involved with the Titans until the most recent incarnation (starting in 2003) when Tim Drake along with new versions of Kid Flash, Superboy, Raven, Speedy, and Wonder Girl form a new Titans team under the tutelage of Cyborg, Starfire, and Beast Boy.

Jason Todd, the second Robin, I don’t believe, was ever associated with the Titans.
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:20 pm

I'm assuming that Jason Todd was from the Batman comics? I've seen the entire animated series (never read the comics) and that name just doesn't ring a bell.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:40 pm

Yes,Jason Todd was the one where DC had the fans vote on his fate and
since he wasn't overly popular they ended up killing him off.Or so it
appeared.They did a storyline not too long ago in Batman where he
appeared to return to get revenge on Bats. :(

Starfire,Robin,Changeling(Beast Boy)and Cyborg are all in Crisis.
The differences:Starfire is older and more of a flirt;it's a different
Robin(probably)in fact there's also another OLDER Robin who never
became Nightwing;Changeling is part of the Legion of Superheroes.
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Postby Shadowchild » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:49 pm

i like nightwing. he was a hunk. ^-^'
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:44 pm

This in: an official source has hinted that Terra may be coming back "in an interesting way" in Season 5.
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Postby Blitzkrieg1701 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:38 am

Sweet... I wonder if it'll be the same way she came back in the comics

...Hey, exactly what source is this "official" one?


Anyway, I had an interesting though last night. The main problem I have with the idea of Teen Titans crossing over with other shows is wether or not it could work dramatically (between juggling continuities and keeping the plot moving and stuff like that), but I just realized that that's assuming a crossover would HAVE to be a serious, damatic event. Of course, that's not the case. Why couldn't a crossover be handled in more of a lighthearted, comedic way? Then it wouldn't be a problem if the writers have to avoid any deep backstories or don't tie it into Justice League or whatnot, and anyway TT often pushes the bounds of realism for comedy's sake.
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Postby uc pseudonym » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:43 am

termyt wrote:I’m enjoying the conversation, so I case it will help, let me give you all some back ground of the Titans in the comic book.

The original Titans were formed back in the 60’s with Robin (Grayson), Kid Flash, and Wonder Girl. Throw Aqualad and Speedy in there now and again for good measure.

In the 80’s, after a hiatus, the Titans reform with the team closer resembling the cartoon titans. Raven brings the original Titans plus former Titan Changeling (Beast Boy) and new to the Titans Cyborg and Starfire to face the threat posed by her father. This is the Titans team that the vast majority of material is being barrowed from for the cartoon. Terra, Bummblebee, Brother Blood, HIVE, Trigon, and Slade are all introduced during this timeframe.

Shortly after this team forms, Robin changes his name to Nightwing.

Grayson is the one romantically involved with (and almost marries) Starfire.

Different incarnations

Grayson is the only Robin to be involved with the Titans until the most recent incarnation (starting in 2003) when Tim Drake along with new versions of Kid Flash, Superboy, Raven, Speedy, and Wonder Girl form a new Titans team under the tutelage of Cyborg, Starfire, and Beast Boy.

Jason Todd, the second Robin, I don’t believe, was ever associated with the Titans.


Thank you for that summary]This in: an official source has hinted that Terra may be coming back "in an interesting way" in Season 5.[/quote]

I'd interprete that to mean "she's not really coming back."

blitzkrieg1701 wrote:Anyway, I had an interesting though last night. The main problem I have with the idea of Teen Titans crossing over with other shows is wether or not it could work dramatically (between juggling continuities and keeping the plot moving and stuff like that), but I just realized that that's assuming a crossover would HAVE to be a serious, damatic event. Of course, that's not the case. Why couldn't a crossover be handled in more of a lighthearted, comedic way? Then it wouldn't be a problem if the writers have to avoid any deep backstories or don't tie it into Justice League or whatnot, and anyway TT often pushes the bounds of realism for comedy's sake.


That's a good point, and could be possible. However, I somewhat doubt it.
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Postby Blitzkrieg1701 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:55 am

Yeah, I doubt it'll actually happen. I just wouldn't mind it if it did.


I'd interprete that to mean "she's not really coming back."


That doesn't strike me as very interesting :grin: I believe the comic involved a different Terra from an alternate timeline... or not, I was flipping through the DC Comics Encyclopedia at Books a Million REALLY fast, so I may not have retained that nugget of information correctly
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:56 am

http://www.titanstower.com/source/animated/00indexanimated.html

You can read it for yourself. You'll have to scroll down a bit, it's under the headline The Titans Panel! Season Five, Terra, New Faces & More!
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Postby termyt » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:07 am

Thank you for that summary; it was rather informative to one such as myself.

Your welcome. I am glad it was valuable.

Terra does return in the comics. She is originally revealed to be a girl plucked from somewhen in the timestream whose DNA is altered to give her powers like those of the original Terra. She’s part of a group called “Team Titansâ€
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Postby Shadowchild » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:39 am

^-^ good job
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Postby Blitzkrieg1701 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:19 am

Yeah, seeing that Terra's apparently still under the city (and stone, at that) I guess we won't be seeing that particular plot
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Postby Little T-chan » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:30 pm

Wow, I haven't watched Teen Titans in a long time. Anyway, I didn't like Terra too much...-0-;;
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Postby mitsuki lover » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:40 pm

Wally's gonna be on in season 5?I mean Kid Flash can only be Wally West.
in which case then it would seem that the show takes place some time prior to
CRISIS since Wally didn't take on the role of the regular Flash until Barry died
or appeared to die in CRISIS.If we're going by the CRISIS timeline in the comics.
Also Kole,Jericho and some of the others have appearances in CRISIS as well.
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Postby termyt » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:38 am

I don't think the Crisis has a lot of relevance for the cartoon show. The Crisis on Infanite Earths was a total re-alignment of the DC Universe. I doubt the cartoon characters will go through that.

The general time frame for the cartoon more or less mirrors the pre-Crisis Titans, so I'd have to agree with you there, but Wally West is not the only Kid Flash. That name is currently being used by Barry Allen's grandchild Bart Allen. I assume we will be able to have a discussion similar to Robin's about which Kid Flash he is.
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Postby kaibrightwing » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:45 am

well the teen titans is one of a so little good shows out there that i like to watch.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:14 pm

I used to subscribe to Flash comics(along with several other comics)in none of them
dealing with Bart was he ever called Kid Flash.He was always called Impulse.So
either he just started calling himself Kid Flash or I missed something along the way.
Any way the Flash Family(as far as I can remember)consisted of:
Jay Garret(the original Flash from the old Earth 2)
Barry Allen(the Silver Age Flash from the old Earth 1)
Wally West (the present day Flash)
Bart Allen(Impulse)
Johnny Quick
Jessie Quick(my fave and Johnny's daugther)
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Postby Chosen Raven » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:26 pm

I assume we will be able to have a discussion similar to Robin's about which Kid Flash he is.


The show's creator's said that when he does appear, fans of the comics will know which Kid Flash it is. I have my doubt that it'll be Wally West, since he's already featured on JLU.

I used to subscribe to Flash comics(along with several other comics)in none of them
dealing with Bart was he ever called Kid Flash.He was always called Impulse.So
either he just started calling himself Kid Flash or I missed something along the way.


I do think it's a recent developement.
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Postby Starfire1 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:45 pm

ChristianRonin wrote:I read the actual comic book for this portion of the series..or at least what it was based off of... I wasn't to keen on who Trigon really is/how raven came to existence.. I would say more but...i am not sure if it is forum appropriate...

The Raven portion was interesting though...I did like:

[spoiler] How Slade and Robin fought together..that was just awesomeness...[/spoiler]

agreed
Azier the Swordsman wrote:This in: an official source has hinted that Terra may be coming back "in an interesting way" in Season 5.

*gasp* terra back!??!? hotness, she was awesome
also, i heard that somewhere along (in the comic version) that nightwing and starfire have a kid? ive never read any comics so...does anyone know when or if that happened?
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Postby termyt » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:34 am

Starfire1 wrote:also, i heard that somewhere along (in the comic version) that nightwing and starfire have a kid? ive never read any comics so...does anyone know when or if that happened?

That never happened in the comics. Nightwing and Starfire did get married, but the ceremony was interupted by the return of Raven, now under the control of her father.

mitsuki lover wrote:I used to subscribe to Flash comics(along with several other comics)in none of them
dealing with Bart was he ever called Kid Flash.He was always called Impulse.So
either he just started calling himself Kid Flash or I missed something along the way.

Impulse became Kid Flash about two years ago at the beginning of the current run of Teen Titans.

Jesse was my favorite speedster as well, but she's no longer a hero now. She lent Wally her speed to defeat the villain Zoom and, as a result, lost her ability to access the "Speed Force." She's now the business manager for the JSA.
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Postby Shadowchild » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:38 am

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Postby Blitzkrieg1701 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:14 am

Starfire1 wrote:also, i heard that somewhere along (in the comic version) that nightwing and starfire have a kid? ive never read any comics so...does anyone know when or if that happened?


termyt wrote:That never happened in the comics. Nightwing and Starfire did get married, but the ceremony was interupted by the return of Raven, now under the control of her father.



Actually, that apparently DID happen in the comic "Kindgom Come". There, Nightwing and Starfire had a kid named Knightfire. But that's a sort of "what if" story, right?
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Postby Azier the Swordsman » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:43 am

termyt wrote:That never happened in the comics. Nightwing and Starfire did get married, but the ceremony was interupted by the return of Raven, now under the control of her father.


Apparently, I really need to read the comics. It would be awesome if they animated that arc in the future. (Yeah right).
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Postby Tsukuyomi » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:51 am

Personally I like StarFire. She's so funny,"Whh...what, I'm nor girl or friend?" Or something like that (hehehe). You just gotta love her star boltz! If I were to have a character in there I would name her Sierra. She'll have power over the water and air (wind). Get it, Sea-Air-a!
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Postby termyt » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:49 pm

Blitzkrieg1701 wrote:Actually, that apparently DID happen in the comic "Kindgom Come". There, Nightwing and Starfire had a kid named Knightfire. But that's a sort of "what if" story, right?

Oh, yeah, I didn't think about Kingdom Come. That's a story of a "possible future." The characters exist in continuity, so it's more than a "what if" type story, but those events haven't happened yet (and may never, since it's only a "possible future.")
Azier the Swordsman wrote:Apparently, I really need to read the comics. It would be awesome if they animated that arc in the future. (Yeah right).

And very scary. Evil Raven's a nasty character
Sao_Sakura wrote:Personally I like StarFire. She's so funny,"Whh...what, I'm nor girl or friend?" Or something like that (hehehe). You just gotta love her star boltz! If I were to have a character in there I would name her Sierra. She'll have power over the water and air (wind). Get it, Sea-Air-a!

Sierra. I like that - and that's a pretty interesting idea. If you were a Titan, what powers would you have?

I'd personally be a lot like my avatar, which is a character I created. He acts a lot like me, but he's an android with super strength and armor that gives him some measure of invulnerability.

What about all of you?
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