Who likes Teen Titans?

[Nate]

I was so miffed that Batman didn't make an appearance in Apprentice Pt. 2. They built my hopes up, then dashed them to pieces. They missed some good plot right there. But...

I agree wholeheartedly.

For that matter, it's interesting that with the fate of the ENTIRE WORLD on the line, that the Justice League hasn't stepped in...I know, I know. The show is "Teen Titans," not "Justice League," and they're (more or less) trying to keep the two separate. Even so, it's still unplausible that the JL wouldn't at least come by and say, "This is too much for you kids. We'll take it from here."

[Shadowchild]

that would be horrible. o.o

[uc pseudonym]

I agree wholeheartedly.

As do I.

On an aside note, I thought the fighting in those episodes was of a somewhat higher quality than previous (though it is generally better when Slade is around, due to general use of martial arts). But recently, it seems the series is using more freeze-frame panels and less actually animation (for example, Slade and Robin in part 2 of "The End"), which disappoints me. Could someone who watches more regularly tell me if I am correct?

For that matter, it's interesting that with the fate of the ENTIRE WORLD on the line, that the Justice League hasn't stepped in...I know, I know. The show is "Teen Titans," not "Justice League," and they're (more or less) trying to keep the two separate. Even so, it's still unplausible that the JL wouldn't at least come by and say, "This is too much for you kids. We'll take it from here."

I think having different heroes in the same world has many good traits, but this is one of the negatives. This one irks me on some level, but I can put that aside.

[Shadowchild]

i wonder what happened to slade when they parted... *ponders*

[Azier the Swordsman]

Agreed. In all honesty, I think they should have dragged 'The End' on to six parts and included ever superhero in the universe. Batman, Superman, The Justice League, The the rest of the side character Titans (Aqualad, ect.); even the Supervillains.

That would have been a sweet showdown. Also, the ending struck me as slightly, unrealistic. So the apocalypse of the entire world can be completely reversed in seconds, right? Of course it could. <----Sarcasm.

[Shadowchild]

that was kinda strange. -_-

[uc pseudonym]

Perhaps we should use spoilers? I haven't seen the last episode after all. But,
[spoiler]it isn't like I didn't expect that. I did blink when Trigon actually destroyed everything immediately (I figured they'd fight first), but then I presumed that it would all get fixed rather easily.[/spoiler]

[Shadowchild]

yeah that did kinda get dumb how automatically that happened. i thought it was wierd how trigon had antlers on his head. ^-^... XDDD

[ChristianKitsune]

I read the actual comic book for this portion of the series..or at least what it was based off of... I wasn't to keen on who Trigon really is/how raven came to existence.. I would say more but...i am not sure if it is forum appropriate...

The Raven portion was interesting though...I did like:

[spoiler] How Slade and Robin fought together..that was just awesomeness...[/spoiler]

[Shadowchild]

never seen that...

[Azier the Swordsman]

My version of The End would have been highly spectacular:

*warning* Some spoilers below for the real episode*

The Titans know well in advance that the day of Prophecy is closing in.

They begin to recruit other Superheroes from around the world. (Justice League, ect.)

Slade returns, empowered by the power of darkness, with a massive, more menacing army of creatures straight from hell.

Even all the Superheroes together have difficulty against the massive army.

Raven decides to become the portal anyways, as it's her destiny. <---Same as the episode.

Trigon arrises, and now with full control, uses his Army of Darkness to begin turning the planet into a wasteland.

Even the Supervillians begin battling against Trigon's army.

The army is too powerful.

Slade appears and tells them that Raven is still alive.

All the Titans with Slade head to rescue Raven while the rest of the Superheroes keep battling.

How can the other Superheroes handle battling demon versions of themselves?

Raven is found, Slade has already parted ways in pursuit of his own interests.

The Titans try to rescue Raven, Raven is not a child, but she is herself, without her powers and moping around.

The Titans must escape and make it to the final battle with Trigon. In a surprising plot twist, Terra returns.

The door that Slade opened to regain his full flesh in blood is nothing more than a trap in my version. He must fight a demon version of himself, in which we learn shocking revelations about who he is, his past, ect.

The Superheroes defeat their demon versions the same way as the Titans did in the official episode.

The Titans join the other Superheroes in confronting Trigon, Raven still does not have her powers.

Slade defeats his demon self and regains his body.

Slade returns to join the final battle.

The rest of the plot is roughly the same as the official episode, Raven regains her powers, and kicks Trigons butt in what is a ten minute dramatic battle sequence.

Trigon is vanquished, the world is still in ruins and must be rebuilt, and Slade is missing.

The apocalypse is over, and our heroes live on to continue protecting the world from evil.

Somewhere along the lines, Robin confesses his love for Starfire. There is a disgustingly sappy make out scene to follow. A new TerraXBeast BoyXRaven love triangle is beginning, and will be the center subplot for the new season. Expect much angst and revelations of the inner workings of life to follow.

[Shadowchild]

wow that was a mouthful. 0.0

[ChristianKitsune]

Sounds...awesoem Azier... LOL

I like the TerraXbeast boy.. but chaknow.. I like the CRXBeast boy thing even more.....


......... I JOKE! I KID! I was kidding......

[Shadowchild]

Xdddd

[ChristianKitsune]

What does xddddd mean?

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I too greatly enjoyed the last few episodes, even if part three was resolved way too quickly. Aside from the obvious deus ex machina that was the final Raven/Trigon confontation, did anyone else think that the fight with the evil Titans wound up way too fast?

I think it's interesting that people are talking about the lack of other superhero apperances, though, 'cause that's something I've been wrestling with for a while. For a long time, I too though it would be really cool to see Batman or the Justice League or any of those guys make appearences and dive deep into the backstories established in the comics and all of that. I've got the fanfic rough drafts to prove it, too. Now, however, I don't really think that'd be a good idea. I mean, sure it sounds cool in theory to talk about all these crossovers, but look at how drastically different the style of Teen Titans and Justice League Unlimited is (and I don't just mean the art, but also writing style and general tone). Can you imagine how many changes would have to be made to both sides for them to coexist in a single episode? I just can't imagine that working without some major retooling of Teen Titans as a whole, and nobody wants that. Same thing goes for being more true to the comics. Yeah, it's more interesting in theory, but we're talking about a show that won't even answer the question of which Robin this is with any certainty. They'd eitehr have to totally change the direction of the show or perfore some drastic rewrites of the source material. If those are the options, I'd rather they just put their energy into something original... Still, more about Slade WOULD have been pretty darn cool.

(btw, Azier, I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants to see Terra again. I mean, if every OTHER person in the world who was turned to stone was revived...)

[Nate]

we're talking about a show that won't even answer the question of which Robin this is with any certainty.

Wrong. They answered it with 100% certainty.

There's an episode where Starfire travels to the future and meets Nightwing. Since Robin became Nightwing, it's obviously Grayson in the cartoon.

[Shadowchild]

oh XDD is a smiley that one unfortunately messed up. -_-

[Azier the Swordsman]

(btw, Azier, I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants to see Terra again. I mean, if every OTHER person in the world who was turned to stone was revived...)

I noticed that... I wouldn't be surprised if the first new episode brings her back for real. If they just leave her be, they are screwing around with some good plot potential.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

You're missing the point I was trying to make. Even if they do use Nightwing in glimpses of the future, they still refuse to go back into the past and say anything deffinative about the kid behind the costume. If they wanted to, the writers of the show could easilly have made one of the other Robins Nightwing. The point is, they just won't say.

(dang, I'm not replying fast enough)

[Nate]

You're missing the point I was trying to make. Even if they do use Nightwing in glimpses of the future, they still refuse to go back into the past and say anything deffinative about the kid behind the costume. If they wanted to, the writers of the show could easilly have made one of the other Robins Nightwing. The point is, they just won't say.

My point is, they don't screw around with the continuity. Trigon is still Raven's father, Bruce Wayne is Batman, etc. You can't make a Batman cartoon without Bruce Wayne being Batman, because Bruce IS Batman.

By the same token, Dic k Grayson (had to do that or it would've been edited) is Nightwing, so they can't make Nightwing not be Grayson. Therefore, the Robin of TT IS Grayson.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

True enough, though they STILL haven't actually gone so far as to use his real name...

[termyt]

Which episodes would that be? The End of the World ones or others? In the latter case, I saw the first two of three. Rather irksome.

The End of the World episodes. I'm sorry you didn't see the end - even more irksone for you is that they've played that episode at least three times on CN. The latest being yesterday after noon - perhaps you caught it then?

Wrong. They answered it with 100% certainty.

There's an episode where Starfire travels to the future and meets Nightwing. Since Robin became Nightwing, it's obviously Grayson in the cartoon.

I disagree that that's "100%" certainty. He certainly doesn't act like Grayson. He acts more like current comic book Robin Tim Drake. How do we know that Tim Drake doesn't take on the name of Nightwing in the future Starfire traveled to? Perhaps that future's Grayson was already dead or retired or, perhaps, became Batman.

My real point to pointing that out is the Titans are better left on their own. I thought a Batman appearance during the Apprentice story arch would have fit well and, if the world is indeed ending, of course the Justice League should show up, right? (The same could be said during the Terra episodes when the Titans' city fell to Slade).

But what kind of show would it be if when the Titans faced any real threat, Superman and Batman showed up to deal with it. "You kids go on over there and sit down. Wonder Woman has some cookies for you. You just leave the real work to us adults." I don't think that makes for good entertainment or character development.

[Shadowchild]

I noticed that... I wouldn't be surprised if the first new episode brings her back for real. If they just leave her be, they are screwing around with some good plot potential.

i agree with you azier. i like terra too and i hope they bring her back. ^-^

[Azier the Swordsman]

I would have to go more towards the Tim Drake theory. Remember that TT is alternate universe, and anything can be different. I would theorize that in this universe, Richard Grayson doesn't exist or never became Robin.

OR

Richard Grayson was Robin and then became Nightwing. However, Tim Drake also goes on to become Nightwing as Grayson's successor.

I would have a hard time believing TT Robin is Grayson since he looks and sounds like Drake but looks and sounds nothing like Grayson.

[uc pseudonym]

As to the recent Robin discussion, I always dislike these, because I never read Batman continuously enough to keep track of the differences.

The End of the World episodes. I'm sorry you didn't see the end - even more irksone for you is that they've played that episode at least three times on CN. The latest being yesterday after noon - perhaps you caught it then?

I watch perhaps two hours of ordinary television a month, and those are always when something about my schedule is abnormal. It is unlikely that I will see that episode in the near future.

But what kind of show would it be if when the Titans faced any real threat, Superman and Batman showed up to deal with it. "You kids go on over there and sit down. Wonder Woman has some cookies for you. You just leave the real work to us adults." I don't think that makes for good entertainment or character development.

It doesn't, which is the weakness I referred to earlier. On the other hand, you could always bring in other characters at times, but craft plots such that the Titans must take an important role.

[termyt]

It doesn't, which is the weakness I referred to earlier. On the other hand, you could always bring in other characters at times, but craft plots such that the Titans must take an important role.

I agree in principle. In the comics, they will often do just that. For example, a plausible (and realize I am talking about a cartoon based on a comic book when I say "plausible") explanation as to why there was no Justice League help in the recent Trigon storyline could go like this: The other superheroes, like the entire population of the planet was imprisoned by Trigon and placed in an alternate dimension. When Trigon was defeated, the world was restored along with all of the people (and the other heroes) as we saw in the third episode. The Titans were not similarly imprisoned because they were protected by the remnant of Raven's power that Trigon mentioned he detected on them. Slade was not affected because he wore Azar's ring.

Some story along those lines would have likely been given in the comics to explain the absence of the other heroes. However, the existence of the Justice League has never been established in the Teen Titans show. Including any reference to them now would be confusing and out of place. Their existence (along with the existence of multiple heroes calling themselves Robin) is only assumed because of other sources which have no real connection to the cartoon.

[Syaoran]

Teen Titans.....I try and wach it every day.

[mitsuki lover]

At least it would seem that they would mention Bats,after all Robin did
serve his apprenticeship with Batman.Actually,they did mention Batman
without mentioning him by name.It was in the Apprentice two parter when
Slade states he could be Robin's father figure and Robin replies:
"I already have a father!"and then all those bats come flying out of nowhere.
Aquaman and Green Arrow also could have been mentioned because
of the presence of Aqualad and Speedy in a couple of the eps.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I don't think there's any way to concretely figure little conundrums like this out, because Teen Titans is specifically written so that it's vague in these areas. That was my (apparently poorly planed) point in opening this whole can of worms about Robin/Nightwing/whatever. As far an any given episode of Teen Titans is concerned, Robin is just Robin, the guy who used to be Batman's sidekick. Who he his behind the mask, his history with Batman, his time in Gotham City, the show really isn't interested in that stuff. Its focus is on whatever action is taking place at the moment and that's pretty much it. Look at all the Raven/Trigon episodes, for example. Honestly, how deeply did they actually explore Raven's past? Only enough to get the action moving, and that was that. Okay, that's probobly not the best example, since Cartoon Network probobly couldn't have shown too much of the actual story anyway, but you see what I'm getting at, right?

But, if you really wanna chew on some connundrums about Robin's identity, here's a few: 1. I'm not the most reliable comic book scholar, so this is probobly wrong, but Grayson was already Nightwing when he became a Titan, wasn't he? I thought the only actual "Robin" in the Titans was Drake. 2. Aizer already pointed out that the Titan's Robin is the design previously used for Drake's Robin, but it gets more complicated. Batman showed up in a few episodes of Static Shock, at one point saying that Robin had gone off and joined the Titans. Thing is, that was DEFFINATELY Drake he was talking about, since Static Shock was indirectly tied into Batman: The Animated Series, which had already introduced Drake as Robin.
3. Oh, this one is so messy I'm almost afraid to bring it up: The episode where Robin is seeing Slade, Raven enters his mind and we see a bunch of brief flashes of his memory. One of those is of some acrobats falling. Now, pretty much everybody knows that's how Grasyon was orphaned, which presents a problem for most of the Drake arguments. But here's the tough thing: Supposedly, the comics say that Drake was in the audience the day that Grayson's parents died, later figures out who Grayson was and tried to convince him to stop being Nightwing and go back to being Robin. So, in theory, Drake could have the same memory... or not, this nitpicking is second hand, so I'm just trusting the other guy knew what he was talking about Brain hurt yet?

And the lesson learned from all this detail fest? The Teen Titans writers were probobly on the right track when they decided to avoid backstories. I'D sure hate to be the one to keep track of this sort of thing.