God can forgive anything, right?

[CobaltAngel]

I've been a Christian for my entire life, so honestly, this is kind of an embarrishing question. However, I recently had thoughts run threw my head again God and the Holy Spirit. It says in the bible that God can forgive anything except blaspheme... that's not blaspheme is it? As soon as I got them I pushed them away and begged God to forgive me.. but being the overly paranoid person I began to worry if it was blaspheme and whether or not I could be forgiven. This wouldn't be the first time I'm had an irrational fear of something. Often I just need something to slap something solid in my face... like a verse or something.

So... prayers, verses, and infomation would be helpful.

[Silvanis]

You haven't said anything bad about or done anything against God have you?

[CobaltAngel]

No. Just thought... and it didnt even feel like it was me thinking it almost. It was really weird.

[Silvanis]

Huh. Yep that's weird. I think your safe.

[CobaltAngel]

So blaspheme has to be spoken? and is it anything spoken again God or the Holy Spirit? That would mean all those kids that talk about how stupid God is at my school could never be saved.

[Sesshoumaru]

Well blasphemy of the Holy Spirirt would be to say that Jesus did his miracles by the power of the Devil. THAT, my friend is unforgivable but any sin or blaspheme can be forgiven but Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will NOT be forgiven.

[CobaltAngel]

My paster said blaspheme was just turning away from the Holy Spirit too many times... but is saying or thinking things bad about the Holy Spirit is bad too? I'm sorry for asking too many questions. I'm really scared.

[Ashley]

Ah, the unpardonable sin. Some think it's blasphemy, others think it's suicide, others doubt it even exists.

Let's hear what the Bible says on it:
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven of men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." -- Matthew 12:31

Now, here's what my commentary (Nelson study bible) says:
The sin which will not be forgiven is the stubborn refusal to heed the Holy Spirit's conviction and accept the forgiveness that Christ offers. Particularly in reference to the leaders of Israel, Jesus had offered them all the proof that could be expected--the ministry of John, the testimony of the Father, the prophecies of the Old Testament, His own testimony, and the substantiation of the Holy Spirit. Because the leaders were rejecting all proofs regarding Jesus as Messiah, nothing else would be given.

So the way I see it, it's like the verse which states that even the demons know Christ is Lord, but they do not surrender to Him. Thus they cannot be saved from judgement--the only way out of Hell is surrendering to Christ. If they refuse, wouldn't that be the one unpardonable sin? Your own refusal? Because think about it. God doesn't want to force His will upon anyone, so He can't MAKE you accept his forgiveness. So I think that would be the one thing He cannot forgive, and that only because you won't let him.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, Coby-chan. I used to tell my youth pastor I was worried about my faith, like if I was even saved. Do you know what he told me? "If you're even concerned about it, you're on the right track". Same applies to you--I think your desire to serve the Lord, to fellowship with Him, that is proof that you indeed have the Holy Spirit and are saved. Even if you did "accidentally" blaspheme, you know that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Silvanis]

I think so... at least from what I've read. I think you might need to mean it too.

[Silvanis]

I'm not an expert though.

[Cap'n Nick]

This idea comes from accounts found in Mark and Luke in which Jesus reprimands the Pharisees for questioning the source of his power (Mark 3 and Luke 12, for reference). The reason this sin is unforgivable is because the Holy Spirit is the agent through which God turns the hearts of man - to reject the Spirit is to reject the one thing that will let a fallen human turn to God, cutting you off from salvation. The Pharisees were doing this. Even though they saw the miracles of Christ, their hearts were not turned because they ascribed his power to demons.

If you're worried about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, chances are you respect it and haven't rejected it. The random synapse firing that occurs when one hears that they shouldn't "blaspheme the Holy Spirit" isn't what this story is talking about.

EDIT: Sorry for the redundancy. I'm typing slow today.

[Pent]

I am kind of getting the idea that blasphemy is not accepting Jesus. AKA becoming a christian, being born again. So if your not a christian you don't go to heaven. Your not forgiven. So you can't really blasphemy if your a christian. (Of course this is my mini theory). Thats why you would go to hell if you don't become a christian some time in your life. You commited blasphemy. (I could be wrong). Thats kind of a new revalation to me. Wow 0.o

[Swordguy]

In God's eyes sin is sin. James 2
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[b] also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

so to say one is but unforgivable is wrong. for all sin does the same thing is seperates you from Him, from those around you. Now i do agree that not accepting the forgiveness of God is unforgiveable, because you refuse to be forgiven. but there is no one sin that God can't nor wont forgive if you go to Him with a humble heart, contrite and sorrowful heart.

[Dont-Lose-Heart]

stuff like that happens to me sometimes too but i dont believe the thoughts. that's just the devil trying to get to me by putting them into my head. when i have those thoughts i always wonder where in the world they came from because i know and believe something different than the thoughts i just had. it isn't blaspheme though because i know and believe otherwise and really those aren't my thoughts because my thoughts would be based on what i believe.

[CobaltAngel]

Thanku ALL! I feel so blessed to have people like you in my life. Right before I came back and read all these new responces I went to eat with my dad and i was shaking like a leaf and about ready to vomit. My dad seemed a little worried that I wasn't eatting and when I explained to him why he said basically what you guys all said, summing it up by saying, "Basically, if you can still say you want to be a daughter of Christ, you haven't commited blasphemy. It's just Satan messing with your mind."

Agani... God bless all of you for taking the time to right these long, kind responses. You have no idea how much you've helped me. *grouphug*

[EireWolf]

You know, Satan has this really nasty trick that he uses quite often on committed believers. He'll plant a thought in your head, and then make you feel guilty for thinking it. You said it didn't even feel like it was you thinking it... Well, that is a distinct possibility.

As several others have said, the fact that you're worried about it shows that you have nothing to worry about. You just need to recognize it for what it is -- an attack against your spirit. The devil is like a toothless lion -- he can't really do anything to you, so he has to resort to trickery and deceit.

[CobaltAngel]

The devil is like a toothless lion -- he can't really do anything to you, so he has to resort to trickery and deceit.

Ferreal... Satan is such a loser. But a loser that's still attacking me. So please continue to pray for me.

Dude, I think I need to watch the video for Bring Me Down by Pillar right about now. It illstrates perfectly how a strong Christian should be... the image of the little girl stadning ontop of the collasped building at the end of it is so freakin powerful.

[termyt]

Hey Coby. Good to see you. And I'm glad you ponder such things. Do not stop looking for the answers to questions like these, OK? I think Ash answered your question beautifully, and so did your Dad.

I doubt is even possible to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by accident. In order to do so, you must witness His power and then deny His claim that He is who He claims to be. Doubting the existence of God is not blasphemy.

Satan is no loser, either. We like to take jabs at him, but I think we should be more careful here. He’s the biggest, baddest, scariest thing you could ever imagine running into and he’s nothing to be trifled with. He knows exactly what he’s doing and he’ll ruin you in a heartbeat. All of us together do not have a single chance in a million of defeating him. Praise God we do not have to face him alone and the One who fights for us makes Satan’s power seem like nothing.

[Kaligraphic]

You don't have to accept Jesus to be saved. The Bible only says that you have to believe. (check it out - the condition is faith, not agreement.) The thing is, once you believe, God will start working on you so that you inevitably become more like He's called you to be. Of course, given that He's called us to some really amazing things, you'll find that you want to spend more and more time with God, and you'll want and actively pursue more and more of what He's called you to, simply because it's so wonderful.

As faith is the condition, the only way that the devil can get you out of grace is by convincing you that you are already out of grace - that you're guilty. The fact is, any sin on your part has to die when you die. The thing is, the Bible doesn't say "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves..." - it says "if we say we have not sinned (past tense verb), we deceive ourselves...". All your sin, past, present, and future, dies when you die - but that death is two thousand years ago. Jesus died your death, and you get a new life with his resurrection. Because your sin died two thousand years ago, you don't have sin any more.

If you know that your sin is gone, then you cannot avoid salvation - and the only way that the devil can get you out of heaven is by accusation. This is where he gets into things like showing people various bits of the Law of Moses (obsolete, and only ever in force over the tribes of Israel) to condemn various actions, or, like EireWolf said, planting ideas in your head and then telling you that you should be ashamed for them. But the thing is, you have nothing of which you need be ashamed. You were not made righteous by an act of man, and you were not made righteous by an act of Congress, but you were made righteous by an act of God, and nothing that anyone says or does can take that away.

Of course, to balance that, there are natural consequences to things. The fact that God sees you as innocent is great - just don't get too carried away, because certain actions will produce certain results - as in, if you sleep around, you'll be saved, but you'll have three kids and four venereal diseases. If you rob a bank, God will see you as innocent, but the court may disagree. As the line goes, if you commit adultery, God won't leave you - but your wife will. Some of these things that we may see as moral matters are actually just very practical ways of avoiding unpleasantness in the future. Rejoice that God has forgotten your sin, but remember that the police (and your friends with cameras) still keep records. (good reason to avoid getting drunk - if you're not drunk, you're a lot harder to get into really embarassing photos. On a more health-related note, you're also less likely to think you can outfight an entire motorcycle gang, but that would fit better earlier in this paragraph.)


Remember that nothing - not death, not life, not angels or principalities or powers, not things present or things to come, not height, not depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NOTHING. So you can tell the devil to go back to hell, because your righteousness cannot be taken, and you are pure and holy by the declaration of God Himself!

[termyt]

You don't have to accept Jesus to be saved. The Bible only says that you have to believe. (check it out - the condition is faith, not agreement.)

I certainly agree that it by faith that we are saved, but to have faith, you must accept what Christ has done for you. Simply believing that what the Bible says happened happened doesn’t get you very far. Jesus told His disciples “whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.â€

[skynes]

I don't think the unforgivable sin is denying Christ, otherwise not one person on earth is saved, cause we've all denied Christ at some point.

I would say that the unforgiveable sin is to see an act of God, know 100% that this is God in action yet credit Satan with the action.

I've read the passage many times, I just don't see how denying Christ fits in there.

Regardless of what it is, you haven't done it Coby. The very fact sin bugs you shows that you ARE saved. If God totally withdraws himself from a person sin will not bother them one little bit.

[Kaligraphic]

I certainly agree that it by faith that we are saved, but to have faith, you must accept what Christ has done for you. Simply believing that what the Bible says happened happened doesn’]
Believing that Jesus is a real person - or even a prophet - or even that he died on a cross - isn't the same as believing that He died your death on a cross, and that you were resurrected with him as sinless. These are things that Muslims do not believe.

If you are using the word accept to mean "accept as true", then it is the same as believe.

I could not agree more, but the way Kaligraphic says it, it may seem like we have a license to continue sinning. As the apostle Paul put it, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2)

Technically, you could only sin under the Law of Moses, not under the new covenant ("all things are lawful for me"), but we need to be prudent, or things are likely to get uncomfortable ("but not all things are beneficial"). The dietary code, for instance, kept people from getting sick. To a little kid, you say "Stop! Don't touch that!" when they reach for a hot stove with their bare hand. With someone older, you can just say "Careful, that's hot." and they'll be able to figure out not to touch the bare metal with their hand. But it's not a matter of sin, either, if they don't - just a matter of a burned hand.

[K. Ayato]

The only unforgivable sin is in not accepting Jesus into your life as Lord and Savior.

[Steeltemplar]

Sin must be fully intentional to be considered sin. That is my belief. I doubt you really intended those thoughts.

But even if you did, God will forgive you. So put your heart at ease

[CobaltAngel]

Here's a question my dad asked - can you not be forgiven for something and still be saved? Because, like you said, the Phrasies said the works of God were the works of demons, but didn't one of them turn to Jesus in the end?

[Ashley]

Technically, you could only sin under the Law of Moses, not under the new covenant ("all things are lawful for me"), but we need to be prudent, or things are likely to get uncomfortable ("but not all things are beneficial").

I hate to make this a very sticky thread, but I disagree with your interpretation. My bible, and many other translations, quote that verse as saying:

" "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything."

Notice the double quotes. This indicates that Paul was quoting the Corinthian arguments that "oh we can do anything we want! Everything is lawful!" and disputing them. Otherwise the verse that Termyt pointed out falls flat on its face. And we know that Scripture cannot refute scripture. To that end, I also have to disagree with you about God seeing you innocent all the time--yes, I believe He forgives you for ALL your sins--past, present, and future--yet I believe there is a paradox there that says you have to ask for the forgiveness already offered to you. God can't forcibly forgive you, just like He can't forcibly save you. Well He CAN but He chooses not to. Anyway, I think now that both sides have been presented biblically, we should leave this section of the thread to rest. If anyone wants to discuss it more, PM me.

Here's a question my dad asked - can you not be forgiven for something and still be saved? Because, like you said, the Phrasies said the works of God were the works of demons, but didn't one of them turn to Jesus in the end?

It's a tricky question; I think I would have to ask do you mean like, as a baby Christian, someone "accidentally" sins because they misinterpreted a scripture or something, and never asked for forgiveness for it? In that instance, I would say yes. But intentionally NOT asking forgiveness for something? Other than wondering why on Earth you would want to, I would say..geez, what a theological quagmire. Some people believe in eternal no-matter-what-you-do-you're-saved salvation, and some people believe it is quite possible for you to lose your salvation if you do not constantly repent. Personally--again, Ash's PERSONAL 2 CENTS here--I believe you can only lose your salvation if you continually ignore God for a long period of time.

I think the heart of your question, Coby, can be found in Romans:

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" -- Romans 8:1

"Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires." Romans 8:5

To me that means if you truly desire to walk with the Lord, if you really want to be saved, then I do not think God would allow you to screw yourself up somehow by not asking for forgiveness correctly or something like that. If you truly want to be saved, I trust that He will bring you to repentance. I fully believe that any punishment or judgement that comes upon us is our own faults for deliberately rebelling against our Lord.

Anyway, enough said from me. So far this thread is going decently, please keep it that way.

[termyt]

Here's a question my dad asked - can you not be forgiven for something and still be saved?

My interpretation is that you must be forgiven to be saved. Those who place their faith in Christ will follow His example, obey His commands, and will be forgiven. I know of no other path.

One facet of this thread seems to be trying to answer the question, "What must I do to be saved?" As if all we need to do is fulfill some minimum requirement for salvation and then we are set for life. I am not interested in any such answer. I don't care what the minimum requirements are. It is by faith we are saved, but faith without works is dead.

Consider the parable of the laborers in the vineyard found in Matt 20:1-16. This is the one where the owner goes out several times throughout the day and hires laborers to work his vineyard. At the end of the day, he pays every laborer the same, regardless of the amount of time each worked.

Those who work in the field for only an hour will be expected to produce less, but salvation is still theirs. The minimum requirements for salvation may be enough for them. Those of us who work longer will be expected to produce more.

Also consider the parable of the talents in Matt 25:14-30. Will you be the servant who buries what God has given you? Or will you go out and risk everything to bare fruit for Him?

Because, like you said, the Phrasies said the works of God were the works of demons, but didn't one of them turn to Jesus in the end?

Not all of the Jewish leaders wanted Christ dead. For example, the tomb in which Jesus was laid belonged to Joseph of Arimathea, a member of the Council. Luke 23:50-51 (NASB):

"And a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man (he had not consented to their plan and action)..."

Other members of the Council may have dissented as well; all we really know is that the majority favored death for Jesus. I don't believe these dissenters are numbered among those who accused Jesus of being from Satan.

[skynes]

Other members of the Council may have dissented as well; all we really know is that the majority favored death for Jesus. I don't believe these dissenters are numbered among those who accused Jesus of being from Satan.

I'd agree with that, there were some Pharisees who were followers of Christ, Nicodemus was one I think. Later on there was Paul/Saul.

The only unforgivable sin is in not accepting Jesus into your life as Lord and Savior

All of us have rejected Christ at one point. If rejecting Christ is unforgivable, does that not mean that NOONE is saved?

How does that fit in the passage? I can see what's meant by the Pharisees rejecting Him. but they rejected Him at many times and He never said anything like this, unless them accusing Him of being of Satan had something to do with it, why did He only talk of the unforgivable sin here.

What I mean is, if rejecting Christ is unforgivable, why didn't He say it any other time? Why only when accused of being of Satan?


Another thing, who cares if rejecting Christ is unforgivable? If you're not one of His you're on the way to hell ANYWAY so what difference does it make if you add another to the list?

[termyt]

All of us have rejected Christ at one point. If rejecting Christ is unforgivable, does that not mean that NOONE is saved?

I don't presume to speak for mobilesuitpilot, but I'm thinking she means dying after rejecting Him. As in not accepting Him before your earthly life ends. I do not believe she is saying that if you have ever in your life rejected Him, then you are condemned.

[Galant]

I'd just like to say well done Ashley. Some amazing posts there - especially the first. Very well done indeed.