What is the difference between Protestant and Catholic beliefs?

[ice122985]

i agree with you, uc, that these are mainly differences. but to imply that these differences do not count seems a little flippant. differences usually means that what we are teaching is 'different' from the absolute truth. and if it is 'different' from the absolute truth, then it is no longer truth that we are teaching.

i believe that for the most part, we have the core truth- the divinity, death and resurrection of Christ. But we must remember that heresy is a serious sin. And though it is something we are all most likely to be or are guilty of, that is no reason to simply accept it. As Christians, we must all strive to know the pure and absolute truth. And it is not as easy as asking WWJD, or brushing it off as ' different strokes for different folks'.

one day, when we get to heaven, we will all see where we were correct in our beliefs, but we will also see where we were wrong. And we will see where our false beliefs caused harm. And it is because of that that 'differences' cannot be dealt with so simply.

At least that is what i believe. forgive me should this post offend you.

[uc pseudonym]

It is not offensive. However, I believe that you misinterpreted my former post: I do not believe I ever implied that differences were unimportant. What I meant was that we are all searching for perfect truth and essentially believe all other Christians are searching for that same truth. Obviously, we differ in our current opinions about that truth, but all of us are on the same journey.

However, that was not the focus of my post. All that paragraph was intended to connote was that when discussing denominational differences, we should keep in mind that every believer is at a different place in their search. Therefore, denominations should not be seen in a divisive light, they are merely grouped differences, not factions.

[Fsiphskilm]

[b]ice122

[Ingemar]

Yes, Theologians have from time to time fought over absolutely ridiculous questions. One was, "How many angels can fit on the head of a pin."

Oh come on, the answer is OBVIOUSLY 144,000.

These types of theological questions were mostly debated amongst doctors of universities and monastaries.

Then call me Dr. Ingy.
[/sarcasm]

[termyt]

But the thing is... for the sake of common curtesy, not to offend others, ( and not getting the thread locked). We have resorted to a "many truths" state of mind. Even though deep down inside we all strive to proove that our beleife is the one that's right.

I disagree, and this is an important distinction for this thread.

I do not have a "many truths" philosophy, but this thread is not about truth. It's not about right or wrong and it's certainly not about what is or isn't heresy.

The purpose of this thread is to simply state the tenants of the Catholic faith versus those of the Protestant faith. That has been extended to different protestant denominations since the divisions there are too numerous to blanket.

There should be no discussion at all about which tenant is good or bad, right or wrong. Just simple declarations, questions, and explanations of the beliefs is all that is asked for and all that should be given.

You are free to disagree, but if you do and want to discuss it – do so in a PM or take it to Theology Web.

[ice122985]

forgive me then for going off topic.

[John316]

This is great and all, but if we can stop bashing Mormons that'd be great.

[Fsiphskilm]

[img]http:/

[Mithrandir]

I figured out how to write that script a few years back. As best I can remember, it goes like this...

while (foot in mouth) do {
embarrase(user);
}
end loop

[Arnobius]

[quote="Talame"]:grin: Bible Gateway ]
Where can I find this Bible Gateway. I'm not so much a "Chapter:Verse" person as much as a "concept" person, but in discussions like these, it does seem to be useful to know it or have a fast way to find it.

[Hephzibah]

http://www.biblegateway.com/
There ya go matie!!!

[Arnobius]

http://www.biblegateway.com/
There ya go matie!!!

Thanks.

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="AnimeH

[teigeki_calesa]

I hate quarrels among denominations. They are NEVER pretty, much less holy, and ALL sides are guilty for the literal and symbolical blood spilled for it. This is the main reason why I don't usually voice out my beliefs.

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="teigek

[uc pseudonym]

Where can I find this Bible Gateway. I'm not so much a "Chapter:Verse" person as much as a "concept" person, but in discussions like these, it does seem to be useful to know it or have a fast way to find it.

I am similar, also on the subject of memorization. However, as Volt did point out, knowing the reference is very helpful. Sometimes it is absolutely critical, if you need a specific verse and can't find it. But Bible Gateway and numerous other tools generally allow one to find such verses provided one accurately remembers what they were talking about.

[termyt]

I hate quarrels among denominations. They are NEVER pretty, much less holy, and ALL sides are guilty for the literal and symbolical blood spilled for it. This is the main reason why I don't usually voice out my beliefs.

Knowing what you believe and being able to back it it up is very important, though. You must also be open to learning and re-evaluating your beliefs should counter-evidence appear. Without that, you can not know what you are doing is right. For this reason, it is good to voice your beliefs - if for no other reason than to refine them. It is good, however, to avoid arguments over trivial differences and to avoid arguing with people who are not interested in learning, only expressing their own opinions.

[oro!]

I'm afraid that that is very far from the truth, and sounds more like an exaggeration of the debates had by the medievel scholastics once upon a time. The reality is that for the most part there was real leadership (or at least better than what your book implies) in the church during times of crisis. If you're interested there are many good books on the subject of church history written by competent scholars that are available, hopefully from your local library.

You may also be interested in the following websites:

http://www.catholic.com
http://www.newadvent.org
(keep in mind that the encyclopedia portion predates Vatican II and may be a bit dated in some portions)

I was kinda going on memory, sorry Technomancer. But, please don't insult dctalk and the voice of the martyrs. I might check out those websites...

[dragonsleeping]

I am not being mean in anyway, I am not trying to start anything...

I just wanted to mention that I noticed someone pointed out that somethings that Catholics believe (in as close as I can recall) doesn't exist in the Bible. What I wanted to say about that, and if I just over looked this in the discussion please beat me with a brick, but we (as a Catholic) have a few more books in our Bible called the Apocrypha. Now, I am not saying that all the questions that people have about Catholicism are answered in those books, but some of the differences in beliefs come from them.

Again, let me just say that I am not in anyway trying to be mean or step on any toes. I do know some about my religion, but as many of us are, I am learning more. So, what I am trying to say by that is that I do not have all the answers nor do I profess it

[CDLviking]

Someone brought up the differences in Bibles before, but maybe it would be a good idea to look at what those actual differences are.

The official name for these books is dueterocanonical. When Luther removed them from the Bible he did so because he claimed that they were apocryphal works which would mean that they were uninspired. That's why some today simply use the more common term apocrypha. This can result in confusing these books with actual Christian apocrypha, some of which can be good reading, and others of which are considered heretical.

There are seven dueterocanonical books, and parts of Daniel and Esther which are only in the Catholic Bible. These books are Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach (aka Ecclesiasticus), Baruch, and 1st and 2nd Machabees. Machabees is notable for a verse that is often used in defense of Purgatory, but I don't know of anything else that is specificly Catholic in belief in any of these books.

[Kawaiikneko]

ok I have a question on Purgatory... I'm not trying to say "OMG YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL NOW!1!!" so please don't take it that way... Where in the Bible (besides Machabees, which I want to read one day... We read a good portion of it in Bible class b/c I had asked a question about Sadduces and somehow we got into it) does it talk about it? And how do you get less years? And didn't Jesus tell the criminal on the cross, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"? To my understanding this guy didn't live the best life and he only acknowledged Jesus right before death. Is this considered an exception to Catholics?

again, sorry for all the questions if they sound demanding and accusing ^^; I don't mean them to be, I just learn best through questions.

Well same here, but I found people reject even the most Simple Biblical Concepts, things like homosexuality, judgement etc...

Unless I write down the Chapter & Verse on a brick with perminant marker, then BASH them in the face with it until blood shows, they will simply deny that anything like this exhists in the bible.

They will look at me stupid and think that I read some sort of ... Crazy Bible for Crazy People that take Crazy Pills.

Concepts are good to understand, but knowing where they are and showing them is vital.

The thing is... Understanding is 50% and Knowing the location of the verse is 50% important, Some people, even after I show them the verse, will still ignore it and continue argueing with me. It becomes en-raging to a point. But then I just lay back and thank God... i don't live anywhere near these people Amen.

btw Volt... amen.... amen. I just can't believe churches that say gay marriage is ok with God.. I mean CAN THEY NOT READ?! and then they go on and perform the marriages too ToT

[Yojimbo]

ok I have a question on Purgatory... I'm not trying to say "OMG YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL NOW!1!!" so please don't take it that way... Where in the Bible (besides Machabees, which I want to read one day... We read a good portion of it in Bible class b/c I had asked a question about Sadduces and somehow we got into it) does it talk about it? And how do you get less years? And didn't Jesus tell the criminal on the cross, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"? To my understanding this guy didn't live the best life and he only acknowledged Jesus right before death. Is this considered an exception to Catholics?

again, sorry for all the questions if they sound demanding and accusing ^^]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/purgatory2.htm

2 Maccabees 12:39-45

1 Corinthians 3:15

Revelation 21:27

Psalm 141:8; Daniel 12:10; Micah 7:9; Zechariah 9:11; Matthew 5:26; Matthew 12:32 & 36; Luke 12:47-48; Philippians 2:10; Hebrews 12:22b; James 3:1; 1 Peter 3:19; 1 Peter 4:18; 1 Peter 7:37; and Jude 23

From the time of Adam and Eve's exile to Jesus's Resurrection humanity was broken from God. God made several Covenants with His people up until that time and all of them were broken. God's full message of love and His unbreakable Covenant was revealed with Jesus's death and Resurrection. How could Abraham, Joseph, Joshua, all God following people in the Old Testament come into heaven without that? They obviously didn't go to hell. When Jesus rose from the dead the gates of heaven were opened so at that point every soul in purgatory came into heaven.

So we Catholics believe this and John Paul II put it best when he said this.

Before we enter into God's Kingdom, every trace of sin within us must be eliminated, every imperfection in our soul must be corrected. This is exactly what takes place in purgatory. Purgatory does not indicate a place but a condition of life. Those who, after death, live in this state of purification are already immersed in the love of Christ which lifts them out of the residue of imperfection.

I'm sure I left plenty of things out, and I'm sure someone who disagrees will find a loophole there in my argument. But I think that's pretty close it's been years since I've studied Purgatory and that just came to mind now.

[Hephzibah]

From the time of Adam and Eve's exile to Jesus's Resurrection humanity was broken from God. God made several Covenants with His people up until that time and all of them were broken. God's full message of love and His unbreakable Covenant was revealed with Jesus's death and Resurrection. How could Abraham, Joseph, Joshua, all God following people in the Old Testament come into heaven without that? They obviously didn't go to hell. When Jesus rose from the dead the gates of heaven were opened so at that point every soul in purgatory came into heaven.

We often forget that God isn't bound to time. To Him, all 'time' is before Him. Personally, I believe that the people "before Jesus" will go to Heaven if they accepted God... after all, God=Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit.
Now you may ask why did Jesus even have to come down then? Because regardless of when it happened, the sacrifice had to take place. Otherwise no-one would be allowed into Heaven.

Anyway, I have checked out most of those verses supposedly relating to Purgatory, but I think that they have been taken out of context. I do not believe such a place as 'Purgatory' (or Limbo for that matter) exists.

[Technomancer]

Well, obviously we disagree as to the meaning of the passages. Also remember that we have a slightly different view of authority and are also informed by Tradition. Some useful insight into our understanding of purgatory can be found at:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp

The principal idea behind purgatory is that while we are saved, our souls still retain their sinful nature (as they do in life). As a result, some kind of purgation or cleansing is required.

Personally, I've always liked that one C.S. Lewis quote in defence of the idea

Our souls demand Purgatory, don't they? Would in not break the heart if God said to us, 'It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy'? Should we not reply, 'With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I'd rather be cleaned first.' 'It may hurt, you know' - 'Even so, sir.'

C.S.Lewis, Letters To Malcom

[Hephzibah]

But how exactly would the soul be cleansed? The only thing that can possibly cleanse a soul is Jesus's blood, which we have already received. Time and pain cannot wipe sin away.
yes, we still have fleshly desires, but that is why we are called to 'put it to death' each day. As we grow closer to God, those desires fade away

[Arnobius]

But how exactly would the soul be cleansed? The only thing that can possibly cleanse a soul is Jesus's blood, which we have already received. Time and pain cannot wipe sin away.
yes, we still have fleshly desires, but that is why we are called to 'put it to death' each day. As we grow closer to God, those desires fade away

That's right, but I think you misunderstand the purpose of Purgatory. It's not a second chance or a mini-Hell. The people who are in Purgatory are going to heaven. Think of it as a way to purify themselves of earthly attachments. A common analogy is the use of fire to remove impurities from gold. The fire removes the worthless stuff (the stuff we're supposed to die to each day but somehow fail to), making it pure gold.

[Hephzibah]

I understand that 'Purgatory' is for people who are going to Heaven, but the thing that I dont understand is how they are meant "to purify themselves of earthly attachments". That's what this life is about, to draw closer to and become more like God.

[CreatureArt]

I'd just like to mention that although I don't agree with everything done in the Catholic Church, being a prostestant, I believe that certain things are awesome, just one of which I read back in Vikings post about the way services are run so that Catholics can visit and Church anywhere and know what's going on. There's great unity in that and I think that's a very good thing.

I'll take the time later to go back through the thread and read in more detail this discussion, but just wanted to mention that I thought that was a really good thing. In my Church area, there have been some reasonably major Church divisions due to denomination which is something I don't think is so hot. Praise God - due to His work there's a lot more unity in the Churches in my area and they often collaborate on events and God really blesses them. I think that unity is quite an important strength in the Church so applaud the Catholic Church for that (as far as I am aware).

If I have made wrong impressions, I would be interested if someone would inform me otherwise, as this is my opinion and I may have generalised too broadly. .

[Arnobius]

I understand that 'Purgatory' is for people who are going to Heaven, but the thing that I dont understand is how they are meant "to purify themselves of earthly attachments". That's what this life is about, to draw closer to and become more like God.

That's right. And those who successfully do so would go straight to heaven. But those with attachments that they can't get rid of during this life would need this. 1 Cor 3:15 is a good verse for our understanding of Purgatory.

As an aside, JRR Tolkein wrote an interesting short story called "Leaf, By Niggle" that allegorically addresses the idea of purgatory and heaven that might be interesting.

[CDLviking]

Might I suggest that further commentary and questions on Purgatory be done through PM.