Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Theories and Predictions

[Mangafanatic]

In line wih Animeheretic, let me say that I don't IN ANY WAY condemn you for your view on this topic. This is one of those grey area that every Christian has to seek God's will about. I have done so, and these are my current responses to the objections raised in the articles, as well some background about me and my association with Mr. Potter:

When I first read and heard of Harry Potter, I was completely convienced that he was nothing but the devil in Hogwarts robes. I had heard from so many in the Christian community that these books were nothing but pagan witchcraft, and they were an inescapable port hole into the occult. When Goblet of Fire was released, I still remember heckling the book's cover while I was with my sister.

Enter the release of the first Harry Potter movie in my life. When my mother could find nothing else on the shelf at our blockbuster, she, a Potter skeptic herself, decided we would watch the film and then discuss it (in other words, discuss how totally evil, depraved, and void of all moral value it was.) Well, we watched the film somewhat reluctantly. When the final credits rolled, there was a long silence, after which my sister said "Well, I don't really think there's much to discuss. I don't really get what everybody's so upset about." While we had made peace with the first movie (and book), overall, I was still somewhat at odds with Harry. But that was before my sister's crusade. . .

Honestly, I owe my love of Harry Potter to my sister. After the shock of NOT being shocked by the first Potter movie, she decided to cautiously begin reading the books. If there was something to be odds with in this Potter-crazy, she wanted to know what it was and why she hated it. Within the next two weeks she had read through all the books and was proud to call herself a Potter fan.

Still, I remained somewhat sceptical. I trusted my sister's opinion, but I wanted to know for myself why everyone like or hated these books so much. For ther reason, I checked out the books myself and read through them quick as a whip. I was surprised when I didn't find a dark tail of paganism and devil worship but rather, in my opinion, a tale of self-sacrificing love.

That encompasses my background with Harry Potter. Through that, I'm sure you will see that I sympathize with your concern. I was there myself once. Now, I'd to address the highlights of some of the comments in the websites you listed:

1) The one third of the occult quote I find suspicious. Before I could/would even comment on it, I'd need to see some more substantial proof that this comment was even made by Rowling.

2) "Harry breaks the rules and gets away with it. He is never punished." First, I've read this comment in several books (in my search to have a balance opinion, I read a very skewed and, in some cases, completely misleading book title "Frodo and Harry"), and I am completely confused by all the fuss. Rowling didn't do anything in this book that writters of children's literature haven't been doing for years. Think of Cinderelle: She snuck away from her "evil" stepmother, as she forbidden to do, and went to the ball. She intentionally misleads her stepmother concerning her where-abouts. What punishment does she receive for this? She marries the prince and her stepmother is hated by all readers. Furthermore, when Harry's bad actions are discovered, they are almost always punished (detention, loss of house points, ect). The times when disobedience goes unpunished is when Harry has risked his own life and has been badly injured while trying to protect the school or those he loves. I think this is really a natural series of events. I, for one, wouldn't punish a child who had just come inches from dying, no matter what he did. My opinion-- We must either condemn both Cinderella and Harry Potter or accept them both.

3) "One of the major responses by some Christians to the Harry Potter critics is that Rowling's use of magick and fantasy is likened to the writings of respected Christian authors C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. Abanes dedicates a chapter to contrasting the fantasy works these authors with the works of Rowling. Tolkien's and Lewis' tales "take place in worlds disassociated from the real world in which we live;" whereas the Harry Potter series is about realistic people in today's world."
--A quote from the article you listed

My response to that: Hogwash. Honestly, to say that C.S. Lewis' world in "the Lion, the Witich, and the wardrobe" was completely disconnected from the real world is simply false. Lucy, Peter, and the rest of the gang, cross in and out of Narnia through portholes in the real world. These words are completely interlinked (consider when they are called from a train stop in the "real world" to Naria by actions of Prince Caspian). Rowling herself is a huge fan of Lewis' works.

3) "Harry uses magic. The Bible forbids us to do magic. Therefore, we are forbidden to read the Harry Potter Books"

I spotted the hole in this argument even when I was a Potter skeptic. Think about it, the Bible forbids us to practice magic. It doesn't forbid us to read ficticious books that contain magic. Not following me? Well, think about it this way: The Bible forbids me to commit fornication, and yet the bible contains tales of fornication. If every sin we are warned against commiting is a sin to read about, the Bible condemns itself.

b4 u slam me off have a think - is this leading me closer to God ?
- do you spend more time reading rowlings wrod than Gods word ?

No. I don't spend more time reading Rowling than I do reading the Bible, but even if I did, I don't know that that automatically makes it bad. I spend more of the day in the school text books than I do in the Bible, does that make school evil? Somedays, I spend more hours in the day cleaning than I do in the Bible, does that make chores evil (I almost hope it does )

thousands of children are lead into witchcraft every year thorugh HarryPotter but u say well im not going to turn to witchcraft.

I'm interested in where you get that number from. . . Well, either way: When I was a child, I read Nacy Drew books continually, but that didn't ever make me go out in search of a mystery solving agency to join. Likewise, I like the movie Pocahontas, but I never tried to go over a waterfall in a canoe. The idea that christian children walked into Harry Potter and came out Wiccans seems suspicious to me. . .

im not here to create arguments but its good to look at both sides b4 dabbling in things

This an excellent goal, and it's one I think you should further pursue. Since you've obviously read Albane's book concerning the negative of Harry Potter, I highly recommoend you read the book "Finding God in Harry Potter" which is written by John Grainger (who was also a Potter skeptic like us for several years.)

Lastly, I just want you to know that we appreciate your concern and your civilty in raising those conerns. You comments have been noted.

[Arnobius]

Personally, I was brought to the books because I have a Masters Degree in Theology and was constantly getting badgered by parents to give my opinion on the books (Up until then, I ignored them, because I'm very intolerant of overhyped books). So I picked up and started reading it and was struck by this thought: These books were probably inspired by the old British 'boarding school novels.'. The new kid joins the school, gets picked on by the rich kid, has a teacher who hates him, sneaks around, evading the rules, has adventures with his friends outwitting the villains of the series. They weren't the best written things I've read, but the author did a great job of making me care about the characters.

Morally, I can find nothing to really condemn about the series without also having to condemn the works of Tolkein, L. Frank Baum and other writers who use magic, and the anime/manga series Lodoss War. The only thing I find problematic was a touch of gnosticism with the muggles and the wizards. JK could address that simply by adding a muggle character who was still a virtuous person.

[Mangafanatic]

Morally, I can find nothing to really condemn about the series without also having to condemn the works of Tolkein, L. Frank Baum and other writers who use magic, and the anime/manga series Lodoss War. The only thing I find problematic was a touch of gnosticism with the muggles and the wizards. JK could address that simply by adding a muggle character who was still a virtuous person.

She does have Harry point out on the Hogwart's express in the first book that not all muggles are bad. Also, the neighbor woman who [spoiler]helps Harry after he fights off the dementors in OOtP[/spoiler] is a quib, but I'd say she's almost a muggle, for practical purposes. But yes, I'd love for there to be a really good muggle character sometime in the not so distant furture.

[Scribs]

Well, looks to me like Mangafanatic and anime heretic have summed up the situation pretty well, and I will simply add that we should try to avoid closed mindedness on both sides of this issue. Lovers of the series like ourselves should be relatively open to criticisms of it, and condemners of the series should at least read through a book or two of it before going about condemning it. However, this is the type of conversation that if carried on too far can result in a locked thread, and I would not like this to happen, as this is one of my favorite threads. So, where were we in conversation about the next book?

[VioletEyedCat]

We were discussing how much we all loved Snape and thought he was our favorite character, of course!

[Scribs]

We were discussing how much we all loved Snape and thought he was our favorite character, of course!

Quite right.

I do like snape quite a great deal. Not as much as Mad Eye Moody of course. I have always held that he will have some large effect on the plot before the end. Perhaps he will seem to turn bad but actually be good after all, or perhaps he has all this time been planning on turning back to you know who. That would please me greatly.
*Evil Chuckle*

[VioletEyedCat]

Quite right.

I do like snape quite a great deal. Not as much as Mad Eye Moody of course. I have always held that he will have some large effect on the plot before the end. Perhaps he will seem to turn bad but actually be good after all, or perhaps he has all this time been planning on turning back to you know who. That would please me greatly.
*Evil Chuckle*

Yeah- I kinda thought it weird that he fit in so well in the 5th book. It seemed like he hadn't even been locked in a trunk for a whole year. He just acted normal, and never mentioned the whole incident. Odd. But I'm not complaining]I mean, Dumbledore was the one who originally had heard Harry's prophecy.[/SPOILER] Unless he kicks the bucket, which is also a good possibility.

[Mangafanatic]

Dumbledore? Kicketh the bucketeth? I thinketh not. I really think that Dumbledore is one of the few characters who's off limits for bucket kicking-- atleast in this coming book. Dumbledore equals stability at Hogwarts. I think Rowling will sustain that stability thorugh out this book. But next book all Hades is set loose, IMHO. If that means death to Dumbledore, then maybe you're right. Still, I would be surprised if Dumbledore died anytime before the final conflict.

On a somewhat related note, I've been discussing this some friends: Do you think Hogwarts will still be holding classes by the last book?--
My personal opinion is that the situation with Voldemort will have become so grave that the school won't be functioning in its normal capacity. Maybe we'll see a student army, rather than a student body by the last book. . .

[Scribs]

So I suspect that you are quite correct in you're prediction, pilo, that Mad Eye Moody will play a bigger part in the future. Snape's still cooler, though.

I was refering to snape in my last post, I had intended to make that comment on moody just in passing and get back to snape. I actually don't think Moody will have that great an effect on the plot in general. (I still think he is cooler than Snape though) I must use less pronouns in the future!

As to the Dumble kicking it, I agree with Mangafanatic. He will mostlikely make it to book 7.

As for the school turning into an army, I doubt it will hapen. Stricter controll over the students perhaps, but no a standing army.

What could happen would be the house of Slytherin leaving the school (sort of like the split in the white tower in the wheel of time books, if any of you have read them)

[Mangafanatic]

What could happen would be the house of Slytherin leaving the school (sort of like the split in the white tower in the wheel of time books, if any of you have read them)

I hadn't really thought about it, but, now that I do, that seems quite possible. All the baddies seem to be in Slytherine, and, after Harry revealed that all their fathers are death eaters in the last book, I wouldn't be surprised if they left school. Maybe Draco's mother will move on and let him join Durstam(sp?).

If the Slytherines don't leave school, would you all suspect that tension between students might escalate to a dangerous level?

[VioletEyedCat]

If the Slytherines don't leave school, would you all suspect that tension between students might escalate to a dangerous level?

Yes, especially as Harry's year gets older and more hormonal. I can see some serious craziness with 16 year old Draco if he doesn't leave- but I don't know what.

Anyone else wondering if anything will change between Harry and his Aunt Petunia now that he knows her importance in protecting him- merely because of the blood they share? I'm thinking that even though in general she won't act any different towards him, there might be an instance in which she actually sticks up for him. That's probably just wishful thinking, though. I do think that she'll be portrayed in a bit of a kinder light now- or maybe we'll just notice it more.

[AngelSakura]

<<But I also LOVE Lupin, come to think of it.>>
I second that. Lupin is just awesome, for some inexplicable reason. I like to read his lines with Lupin III's dub voice in my mind, ha ha. But seriously, Lupin rules.

[Mangafanatic]

<<But I also LOVE Lupin, come to think of it.>>
I second that. Lupin is just awesome, for some inexplicable reason. I like to read his lines with Lupin III's dub voice in my mind, ha ha. But seriously, Lupin rules.

Angel Sakura has join the Ranks of the HBP thread!? Catch 'er before she gets away!

I think Harry will see Petunia differently, and I think she might attempt to be kinder to him but I don't think she'd do anything that Vernon would notice. In front of him, I think she'll still be snotty Aunt Petunia.

[AngelSakura]

Haven't I been here before? O.O Come to think of it, I lived in England, so I have the British editions of The Philosopher's Stone and The Prisoner of Azkaban. Different cover art, and I'm pretty sure the American version had "baseball" instead of "cricket". I actually think the first book had a different title in America (it escapes me at the moment).

[Felix]

>< Stupid parents won't even let me have anything to do with the harry potter books. They BARELY let me watch the movies. *sigh* I can live with it. ;;;_;;;

[christianfriend]

*sniffle* Oh you poor boy! Harry Potter is so cool..Well at least you cna watch the movies..

[Mangafanatic]

[quote="Felix"]>< Stupid parents won't even let me have anything to do with the harry potter books. They BARELY let me watch the movies. *sigh* I can live with it. ]

While I may not have the same stance on the books as your parents do, it's the opinion of ALL in this thread that parent's opinions and standards come first. We won't question them, and we encourage you, while you're under their roof, to completely submit to their will.

If you disagree with them, couldn't you respectfully ask them to reconsider?

[Felix]

Yeah. I guess that kinda soudned disrespectful. I love my parents and respect their view...but they won't budge. It's ok. it's only a small thing in life. there's still plenty of good readables out there.

[Arnobius]

Haven't I been here before? O.O Come to think of it, I lived in England, so I have the British editions of The Philosopher's Stone and The Prisoner of Azkaban. Different cover art, and I'm pretty sure the American version had "baseball" instead of "cricket". I actually think the first book had a different title in America (it escapes me at the moment).

"Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone"

I don't remember any baseball or cricket references. I do remember a soccer reference...

[Mangafanatic]

I think the game remained cricket but the title was, indeed, changed. 'Cause-- Naturally, no American would read a book that contained the word "Philosopher" in the title.

[Arnobius]

I think the game remained cricket but the title was, indeed, changed. 'Cause-- Naturally, no American would read a book that contained the word "Philosopher" in the title.

Personally, I'm suprised that Scholastic didn't dumb it down further, like "Harry Potter and the Magic Rock" or something equally lame

Hmm: Imagine how it would be if they dumbed down all the titles
Harry Potter and the Magic Rock
Harry Potter and the Hidden Room
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Az
Harry Potter and the Fire Cup
Harry Potter and the Bird Club

[AngelSakura]

I actually had the American version and thought it was a different book, because I am that slow. XDD

[Arnobius]

I actually had the American version and thought it was a different book, because I am that slow. XDD

I suppose I might have made the same mistake if it weren't for all the hype expended before I got into it.

I was disappointed with the change, because I had heard of the Philosopher's Stone from studying European History with the Alchemists and such.

[VioletEyedCat]

Dude- Philosopher's Stone!?! Man, that's sounds waaaay cooler than some dumb old 'Sorceror's Stone'. I would have read the series a lot earlier if it had been called that in the US. Stupid Americans and their lack of vocabulary. Oh- I also command all you who do not know the legend of the Philosopher's Stone to Google it this instant. Hear and Obey!

[Arnobius]

Well, I think the book made reference to many of its alleged properties.

[SereneDolphin]

Sorry for bursting in, this isn't necessarily with the current conversation, but I had to reply.

This was way back on page three (or something like that), but it kind of irritated me. We know that Harry has been going through a lot of angst in OotP, but that's because

[spoiler]nobody believed him when he said that Voldemort was back. I mean, I would be frustrated too if nobody believed my story, especially when people's lives depended on it! i think that the angst should tone down, with the possible exception of some grief over Sirius[/spoiler]

Would have posted that up earlier, but I came too late. . .Moving on-

This is going to sound freaky, but I have this memory of an interview with J.K. Rowling. It was on TV shortly after the release of OotP. I don't know if this was a dream or what-I remember it quite strongly this one particular part about relationships.

[spoiler]I definitely remember her mentioning the possibility of Ron and Hermione becoming more than friends, and also that Harry will get in a relationship during the sixth book. Here's the weird part-I'm pretty sure that she said with Susan Bones. Susan is one of those characters who has been mentioned a couple of times, but never really had a part of the storyline. Her aunt, Amelia Bones, was supposed to give Harry the trial over whether he was to be expelled or not, and Lupin spoke really nice of her. But as I said, I don't know if this was a dream or if it really happened. I don't know why it's in my head[/spoiler]

As for who the Half-Blood Prince is, why couldn't it be Snape?

[spoiler]I like the theory about how the sixth book is going to reveal what side Snape is really on. All throughout the series, Snape has continually looking suspicious, and I think that before Harry has his big showdown with Voldemort, he needs to understand and know about Snape's story. And, in OotP, we find out that Snape's parents really didn't get along. From what I hear, one spouse being a muggle and one being magical, those relationships never turned out very good. Snape's true colors are going to show, and to hold true to the title, I think that Harry's going to find out how important Snape is to Dumbledore.[/spoiler]

Since Snape isn't a real prince, I think "Prince" in the title is just a figure of speech. Sorry the post is so long.

[Arnobius]

As for who the Half-Blood Prince is, why couldn't it be Snape?

[spoiler]I like the theory about how the sixth book is going to reveal what side Snape is really on. All throughout the series, Snape has continually looking suspicious, and I think that before Harry has his big showdown with Voldemort, he needs to understand and know about Snape's story. And, in OotP, we find out that Snape's parents really didn't get along. From what I hear, one spouse being a muggle and one being magical, those relationships never turned out very good. Snape's true colors are going to show, and to hold true to the title, I think that Harry's going to find out how important Snape is to Dumbledore.[/spoiler]

Since Snape isn't a real prince, I think "Prince" in the title is just a figure of speech. Sorry the post is so long.

Not a bad theory, but there is this to consider:
[spoiler]Snape is of Slytherin house, which prefers to take only "pure blood" students. Also I think the whole thing about Voldemort and the Death Eaters, was they also hated muggles. I don't think they would have accepted Snapes unless he was a pure blood.[/spoiler]

[Mangafanatic]

Not a bad theory, but there is this to consider:
[spoiler]Snape is of Slytherin house, which prefers to take only "pure blood" students. Also I think the whole thing about Voldemort and the Death Eaters, was they also hated muggles. I don't think they would have accepted Snapes unless he was a pure blood.[/spoiler]

In addition to that, you might recall that [spoiler]Snape called Lily a "Mudblood" and was otherwise just pretty nasty to her in general because of her mixed background. While it is possible he would despise her for being a half-blood while being one himself, I consider it unlikely[/spoiler]

Kudos on the thoery, though. And who knows! Maybe me and Animeheretic will both be wrong and you'll win ultimate bragging rights!

[Arnobius]

There is that. Among the Nazis, I seem to recall reading that the most fanatical adherants to the idea of racial purity were those who barely qualified, and perhaps JK has that in mind. Sometimes it seems like she borrows some ideas from history. There were several instances when, reading Pheonix, I was wondering whether the antics at the Ministry of Magic was a sort of commentary on what the UK government was doing over some issue at the time of writing-- like a satire [Pure speculation on my parts mods, I'm not trying to make this thread go political]

[Mangafanatic]

There is that. Among the Nazis, I seem to recall reading that the most fanatical adherants to the idea of racial purity were those who barely qualified, and perhaps JK has that in mind. Sometimes it seems like she borrows some ideas from history. There were several instances when, reading Pheonix, I was wondering whether the antics at the Ministry of Magic was a sort of commentary on what the UK government was doing over some issue at the time of writing-- like a satire [Pure speculation on my parts mods, I'm not trying to make this thread go political]

John Grainger, who wrote the book Finding God in Harry Potter has a similar theory. He often alluded to the fact that he thinks Margeret Thatcher and Umbridge are one and the same. Wouldn't you love to have such an admirable character as Umbridge modeled after you?