To eyeline or not to eyeline, that is the question.

[Hitokiri]

Ok
I have been wondering about this the entire weekend and I have been praying about it but nothing so far.

Friday at school, I got in the discussion about Christians being quote on quote "gothic". I wrote a very Christian paper in English class on how the Ressurection is true and suppoting scientific and historical (without the Bible) logic and reasoning to prove it's truth.

Apparently, my readers didn't buy not only the "story" but that fact I was not a Christian cause at the time I was wearing all black with a As I Lay Dying t-shirt (here's the logo which is on it skull logo )as well as eye-liner and black fingernail polish. I tried to support that I am a Christian but I choose to dress this way but they didn't believe it cause they assorted anything that resembles "goth" as a spawn of Satan.

So which got me thinking. Despite I feel comfortable dressing this way and that I don't choose to dress this way to look cool but just for fun....should I not dress that way to further the glory of God's kingdom? I mean...by dressing "goth" does that hurt my witness cause of the sterotype that they associate myself with automatically links me with how that steriotype is and in this instance that Goth is linked to Satanism, pagansim, and other wierd stuff. I myself don't believe that but I don't want to hurt my witness by not appearing as a Christian.

Get what I am saying?

And for the record, I don't consider myself quote on quote a Goth cause mor e importantly, I am a Christian who follows Christ but I choose to dress a certain way.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Isn't eyeliner and nail polish for girls anyway? The "Goth" look does look evil.

[Stephen]

*laughs* That was a nice sweeping generalization. How bout I bring up women wearing skirts and not manly pants? (I actaully have no issue with either idea in question)

[c-girl]

>^^< I can tolerate guys wearing black nailpolish..... But eyeliner?... >"<

[Shao Feng-Li]

Well there are girls pants and men's pants. Well Hotikiri's isssue isn't whether or not he looks like a woman... so... Heh.

[c-girl]

Well there are girls pants and men's pants. Well Hotikiri's isssue isn't whether or not he looks like a woman... so... Heh.

>^^<;; I know a guy that wears his sister's pants sometimes because he doesn't like baggy pants. And it doesn't look like he's wearing girl's pants.

[Mangafanatic]

That's a tough question 'cause there are alot of different things you could consider.

First we know that "Man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh on the heart." Does the way you dress in anyway affect your Christianity: No. The way you dress in no way affects the state of your soul (in some cases it reflects the state of ones soul, but it doesn't affect it.) In that sense, I'd say what you wear is okay, strictly speaking. Still, "Man looketh on the outward appearance. . ." and if your witness is really important, you might just want to consider what your fashion statement is telling people. Most of the people I know who dress in black, wear eyeliner, ect, do it because they're deeply depressed and are (in some cases) satan worshipers. On first glance, people could perceive you that way.

On a personal note, I know that I'm sometimes scared by people who dress in a "gothic" fashion. I know it's wrong to judge in that manner, but my limited experiences with that particular demographic haven't been very good so I just make generalizations. Wrong? Yes. Still the truth? Yes. Even the other day, my litte sister was saying that she always gets scared when she's walking around in the mall and group of gothic guys pass by her. Just something to consider. ^_^

Overall, it's a tough issue, and it'll come down to you and God. Pray about it and do what you think is right.

[Stephen]

My thing is, if a guy wants to wear eye liner, I say let him be. Its not hurting anyone. People are far too into being slaves to image. If someone would not talk to me because I had eyeliner, I would not care enough to know them anyway.

[Debitt]

Nail polish an eye liner on a guy is only a sin if they're wearing it for the wrong reason. =O;

[Ashley]

This is a very difficult question, Hitokiri, and one that has been discussed alot in my church the past few weeks.

It really comes down to "being a stumbling block" verses "freedom in Christ". On the one hand, we ARE called to be set apart, to be different, and to be holy. (1 Corinthians 1:2, Ephesians 1:4, Hebrews 12:14, 1 Peter 1:15).

On the other hand, we are encouraged to go out into the world, to reach people where they are, and to be Christ to them. To really minister means to not come off as totally spotless clean, but to (and this is my personal theology interpretation coming through) use our preferences as a springboard to bring others to the gospel. I think so many worldly people think we Christians are nothing but stuck up, hypocritical, puritanical sticks in the mud who stick our noses up and say "holier than thou" at everything. I think if we are to live up to our Great Comission (Matthew 28:19) we have to show them we ARE allowed to like music and movies and what have you. Break that mold, show them love, and pray God uses that to bring them to salvation. Paul himself said he became "all things to all men, so that many may be saved" (1 Corinthians 9:22), and people use that as a springboard/license to enjoy secular things. Heck CAA even existing is a living proof of that verse--if we don't show the world that Christians CAN be anime fans, there may be some out there who will never see Christ.

Hitokiri, I don't think anyone's going to be able to make this choice for you. People can come at you and both condemn and defend what you are asking. I think you need to spend some time in prayer and seek out what God wants YOU to do. Maybe He does want you to dress goth and at every chance you get with other goths to proclaim His greatness. Maybe He wants you to clean it up and reach a different crowd--only God knows. I've given a lot of passages I hope you'll look up and maybe this will help you out. But ultimately, I think it comes down to you and what the Lord lays upon your heart.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Even the other day, my litte sister was saying that she always gets scared when she's walking around in the mall and group of gothic guys pass by her.

I don't blame her for being scared. It does look evil i most cases. Where do you draw the line between goth and not goth? Is person goth when they ware a black out fit? What about eyeliner? Like if I thought a guy looked goth for only wareing a black t shirt and my firend thought that a guy only looked goth when he went all out. There's not much of a standard.

[GhostontheNet]

Ok
I have been wondering about this the entire weekend and I have been praying about it but nothing so far.

Friday at school, I got in the discussion about Christians being quote on quote "gothic". I wrote a very Christian paper in English class on how the Ressurection is true and suppoting scientific and historical (without the Bible) logic and reasoning to prove it's truth.

Apparently, my readers didn't buy not only the "story" but that fact I was not a Christian cause at the time I was wearing all black with a As I Lay Dying t-shirt (here's the logo which is on it skull logo )as well as eye-liner and black fingernail polish. I tried to support that I am a Christian but I choose to dress this way but they didn't believe it cause they assorted anything that resembles "goth" as a spawn of Satan.

So which got me thinking. Despite I feel comfortable dressing this way and that I don't choose to dress this way to look cool but just for fun....should I not dress that way to further the glory of God's kingdom? I mean...by dressing "goth" does that hurt my witness cause of the sterotype that they associate myself with automatically links me with how that steriotype is and in this instance that Goth is linked to Satanism, pagansim, and other wierd stuff. I myself don't believe that but I don't want to hurt my witness by not appearing as a Christian.

Get what I am saying?

And for the record, I don't consider myself quote on quote a Goth cause mor e importantly, I am a Christian who follows Christ but I choose to dress a certain way.

Suggestion: I'd say, go for more of an elegant
Gothic look than such a look as you have now. Drop the black fingernail polish, the black eye shadow, and shirts celebrating death - keep the black and other dark colors however, and try to stay as close as you can to your dress sense without sending out the wrong impressions. Perhaps The Nightmare for Christmas items may be a passable bridge between the two extremes. An example from my own experience is that I am quite obsessed with wearing a combat anorak parka, due to its versatility and high functionality, wearing this day in and day out anywhere in any weather. And, although I like various kinds of camouflage, I have stuck to black because it doesn't attract the same kinds of attention and prejudices as wearing camouflage all the time, while still conforming to my sense of style.

[Joshua Christopher]

# GOTHIC-

1. Of or relating to the Goths or their language.
2. Germanic; Teutonic.

# Of or relating to the Middle Ages; medieval.
#

1. Of or relating to an architectural style prevalent in western Europe from the 12th through the 15th century and characterized by pointed arches, rib vaulting, and a developing emphasis on verticality and the impression of height.
2. Of or relating to an architectural style derived from medieval Gothic.

# Of or relating to painting, sculpture, or other art forms prevalent in northern Europe from the 12th through the 15th century.

I'm not getting this topic...

[GhostontheNet]

I'm not getting this topic...

gothic

adj 1: characteristic of the style of type commonly used for printing German [syn: Gothic] 2: of or relating to the language of the ancient Goths] 3: of or relating to the Goths; "Gothic migrations" [syn: Gothic] 4: as if belonging to the Middle Ages; old-fashioned and unenlightened; "a medieval attitude toward dating" [syn: medieval, mediaeval] 5: characterized by gloom and mystery and the grotesque; "gothic novels like `Frankenstein'" n 1: extinct East Germanic language of the ancient Goths; the only surviving record being fragments of a 4th-century translation of the Bible by Bishop Ulfilas [syn: Gothic] 2: a heavy typeface in use from 15th to 18th centuries [syn: Gothic, black letter] 3: a style of architecture developed in northern France that spread throughout Europe between the 12th and 16th centuries; characterized by slender vertical piers and counterbalancing buttresses and by vaulting and pointed arches [syn: Gothic, Gothic architecture]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton Universit

[Joshua Christopher]

gothic

adj 1: characteristic of the style of type commonly used for printing German [syn: Gothic] 2: of or relating to the language of the ancient Goths] 3: of or relating to the Goths; "Gothic migrations" [syn: Gothic] 4: as if belonging to the Middle Ages; old-fashioned and unenlightened; "a medieval attitude toward dating" [syn: medieval, mediaeval] 5: characterized by gloom and mystery and the grotesque; "gothic novels like `Frankenstein'" n 1: extinct East Germanic language of the ancient Goths; the only surviving record being fragments of a 4th-century translation of the Bible by Bishop Ulfilas [syn: Gothic] 2: a heavy typeface in use from 15th to 18th centuries [syn: Gothic, black letter] 3: a style of architecture developed in northern France that spread throughout Europe between the 12th and 16th centuries; characterized by slender vertical piers and counterbalancing buttresses and by vaulting and pointed arches [syn: Gothic, Gothic architecture]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton Universit

You killed it....


Anyway, Hito, dress however you like.

[Angel37]

Since when does the clothing make the man? What you wear isn't half as important as how you behave and treat others. I'm "gothic" and yet I'm Christian. Clothes won't get you to heaven or out of heaven.
<3 Angel

[Mangafanatic]

I don't blame her for being scared. It does look evil i most cases. Where do you draw the line between goth and not goth? Is person goth when they ware a black out fit? What about eyeliner? Like if I thought a guy looked goth for only wareing a black t shirt and my firend thought that a guy only looked goth when he went all out. There's not much of a standard.

I was just giving him that information so he'd know that there are some who would be scared off by it, not as a necessary condemnation of it.

To me, goth is a life style and not a way of dressing. Hitokiri is not a "goth", by my definiton, no matter what he wears.

Think about it this way: If I put on a tutu, does that make me a ballerina? If I sit down at a piano, does that make me a pianist? If I wear floral print skirts and a coral top, does that make me a God-fearing good girl? No. Why is gothic clothing any different. Wearing black doesn't make you a satanist, and the wearing of black is not forbidden in scripture.

The issue itself is not a "moral issue". The only problem to me is the inferences people make. The problem occurs (allowing me to borrow from my illustration above) when someone walks in, sees me in a tutu, and assumes I'm a ballerina.

[GhostontheNet]

Since when does the clothing make the man? What you wear isn't half as important as how you behave and treat others. I'm "gothic" and yet I'm Christian. Clothes won't get you to heaven or out of heaven.
<3 Angel

Maybe so, but all kinds of civilizations look for ways to short-circuit fully getting to know someone and what they're all about well, as that is not always practical. Within our own, that is partially accomplished in the way someone dresses, and it would be foolish to completely ignore this. I guess the question is, although Hitokiri is at full liberty to dress in this fashion, is he willing to pay the price in the perceptions of others? And also, is there some sort of middle ground he could fall back to, as I had said?

[Fsiphskilm]

If you dress like a

[christianfriend]

<<edit>>

[Mithrandir]

I think this needs to be said, and you can take it however you want.

Some people think watching anime is an evil pasttime. I watch anime. I tell people I watch anime. If I had anime t-shirts, I would likely wear them. Does that make me evil?

It's not a retorical question. The answer is "no." If you are on this site, I have a very hard time believing you would believe anything different. I think what you choose to wear is not a sin. It might hurt your walk with Christ, or your witness to others, but that's a different story, in my opinion. Ask yourself why you do it.

If you do it to rebel against God, that's a different issue entirely. If you do it to shock people, and it's causing them to struggle in their faith, well, I think you would need to pray about that one.

The conflict here arises from a few apparently conflicting things in the bible:
1. Jesus hung out with sinners.
2. The bible says, "avoid every appearence of evil."

The fact of the matter is, Jesus hung out with Tax collecters. He went to parties. He did NOT party - he went there because, "The healthy do not need a doctor." As for the second point above, look at the context in the scripture. The people this was written to were engaging in activities that were out-of-bounds with Christianity - for the purpose of drawing people to Christ. The author of the letter was telling them, "Hey look: You can't do this. Just live your life for God and people will be drawn to you."

I might have to disagree with Volt on this. I think people might PERCIEVE that you support something because you dress that way, but you are NOT showing support for something. The difference is in the motivation.

Anyway, this is just MY opinion. I've probably thought more about it then some people, but that's no indication that I'm more "right" then someone else.

[Hitokiri]

Oh whoa.... I didn't expect such a response.

I didn't quite point out some details. I will put on eyeliner or fingernails polish or both every once in a while. Basically whenever I feel like it. The last time I did that bedies Friday was a month and half ago. As for wearing black, that keeps consistent throughout the entire week.

Lip stick is a no no for me.

I guess the reason I wear it is that I 1) feel comfortable 2) I enjoy and like that style and 3) sounds bad but to be honest, to represent the type of music I listen to. For the most cases, I wear a black coat, a usual metal abnd t-shirt or a anime shirt, and either black or regular baggy jeans that cover my shoes up and is all torn on the bottom.

Thanks for the help though. I know some friends are going through the same thing.

[Kawaiikneko]

we had a discussion vaguely related to this sort of thing in bible class.... lets see if I can remember at all >.>

At our school awhile ago they changed the rules system. Before it had been VERY VERY strict. For instance, if the school heard there was a party they would pull people aside in different rooms and ask them questions, then compare what they said and if anything had gone on at the party, everyone involved would be punished accordingly. At that time it was important to the school that others see them as an upright Christian place. However the rules system was changed to be more loving b/c they believed it was more important to give us a chance first and go about discipline from a Godly perspective. (gah I'm not wording this right... I wish I had my bible binder at home >.>) Anyways, whats more important than dispelling ideas that all Christians are hypocrites and more important than making people think you're a Christian is to live by the Holy Spirit and follow His leading in your life. I don't know how some people think, but when someone is truly living in the Spirit there's definitely a difference in their lives. Its a very very tangible difference, and I don't think black clothing can block that sort of thing out

nooowww... if you were a girl wearing really skimpy clothes that'd be different.

[Sam*ron]

My cousin wears black nail polish, and girly pants, I see nothing wrong. And even I wear dark nail polish. And eyeliner.

[Maledicte]

here's a nifty little article I found...

[quote="ChristianGoth.com"]Evil? Weird? Misunderstood!

"Evil Goths or Misunderstood people?

By: Morria Houser

Evil?
Many times it has been said that those who dress in black, love the dark of night, think more of death and the after life than the present, and hang out in graveyards are witches, demons, wizards, vampires, and other “creatures of the nightâ€

[mechana2015]

Good article ST2M. I really like the arguments made in it. Excellent find.

[termyt]

....should I not dress that way to further the glory of God's kingdom? I mean...by dressing "goth" does that hurt my witness cause of the sterotype that they associate myself with automatically links me with how that steriotype is and in this instance that Goth is linked to Satanism, pagansim, and other wierd stuff.

First of all, I'm glad you are asking this question. It says to me what is more important to you. That's a good thing.

Oldphil's post was right on the money and worth reading again and there's some good advise in this thread in general. I would also like to add a direct answer to your question.

Yes. By dressing goth you will hurt your witness with some people, but you will open doors with others. Goth kids need to meet Christ as well, perhaps more so with some of them, and they are resistant to the kind of Christian the folks you mentioned are demanding you emulate. Take the message to all who will listen to you. Leave the rest to someone else. That sounds harsh, but you can not lead everyone to Christ. It won't happen.

Now, on the other side, you do not want to purposefully be a stumbling block to others. At all times, you need to live a Christ-centered life. No matter how you look, if you emulate Christ, anyone else who like-wise emulates Him will recognize that and those seeking Him will find Him in you. Don't do the goth thing to purposefully shock or disturb people, but don't be ashamed to be who you are. And when you fail this, seek forgiveness. Own up to your shortcomings and those who look sideways at you for your appearance will respect you and be more open for your message.

[Mithrandir]

Wow. I don't think anyone's ever acused me of saying something worth reading twice.

[Madeline]

I admire the way you are earnestly asking this question because you genuinely want to know God's will for your life. Continue to ask God what He thinks, He will let you know.

[ice122985]

i'm just gonna say that we all have a testimony to protect- including with our lives. after all, it is our testimony (i.e. outward appearance; both in image and behavior) that other people recieve. if your appearance hurts your testimony, then out of love for that person, and out of obedience to God's will, change your appearance.

sometimes we are called to make sacrifices for the will of God. this may be yours.

this, then leads to this question: if I don't do this, am I disrupting the will of God?

No.

God's will will be done, whether or not we (including myself) obey His will. It is how we serve in His will where our decision lies. We can serve like John and be called the beloved disciple. Or we can serve like Judas, and betray Him (i am the first to be guilty of this).

Just remember that if you are willing to do Satan's work, be ready to earn His wages. **

**C.S. Lewis said this in "The Problem of Pain"

by the way: sorry if i offended anyone here.