Would you pull the trigger?

[Yojimbo]

True it would be a better choice to inflict a wound that would incapacitate him and make him lose the will to fight. But in the heat of the moment obviously your first priority like Shatterheart said is to protect those who are in danger. You don't want to be taking any chances with someone who has a weapon, may be on drugs, and mentally unstable.

[Jasdero]

[quote="chibi_chan"]I think that if somebody was hurting a person I loved, i'd kill them in an instant.....

And now your going to all read this and think i'm a pshycho O_O]
Psycho? nah... I would do the same. No second thoughts.

[livingsacrifice]

I kind of like were this thread is going!! It seems that every one understands that You have a God giving right to protect yourself and anyone else form harm. Even if that means killing a person. I think you can be a Man who has killed in a war or in another situation, and still walk in the love of Christ.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

thats hard, lemme get back to you

[Fsiphskilm]

Lawsuits will be so much fun for you. When the man that broke into your house, had his way with your wife...shot your dog, and slapped you around..only to be shoved out a window. Then, he can sue you. Take most of what you have earned in life...

dang it, I forgot about that.

Yea USA is weird place. I've seen cases on the news where a Robber sued the lady becuase he fell out of her window and got cut...err..wait, I remember it now, the lady beat him in the head with a frying pan. and He sued her for that.

I think poeple like that, and their lawyers should be .... "erased", "taken care of", "taken out". That's just completely ... there's no other word than "Satanic" to describe this.

I mean breaking into someone's house with guns and what-not, getting hurt and then sueing the guy you were stealing from/about to injure?! Shoot, -> Break into the guys house, jump through the top story window and sue him back

The reason why these lawsuits are possible is becuase of "injury on property". If someone gets hurt in any way on your property weather they were invited or not, they can sue.

[Kura Ookami]

For me i think the priority would be the person who is in danger. To protect that person by any means neccessary even if that meant killing.

[Kaligraphic]

If you don't want to worry about lawsuits, just put up a notice:

"By entering this property, you release the owner and maintainer of this property from any responsibility for your life, health, and physical and mental condition. You further agree that should you be injured or killed on this property, you will accept all responsibility, and you or your estate will bear all related costs, including but not limited to: cleaning, repair, replacement of damaged/expended objects and ammunition, all medical and legal costs, and any costs and fees related to the removal and disposal of your body should you die."

[nightblade]

For me there's a verse in Exodus (22:2-3) about its ok to kill an intruder at night but after sunrise could not. This is because of the intentions at night are unknown. That's a biblical standpoint.

Personally, I've been somewhat of a guardian of sorts to those around me. I wouldn't want to kill someone to protect another, but if it came down to it, I think I would be able to do it and then suffer later for the consequences (both in law and in mind). But only in defense of another, and only if truly necessary, and never in cold blood.

But then again, there are reasons you take karate, you can KO someone in a number of different ways as well as incapacitate them (you wouldn't believe how many bones they teach you to break).... O_O

[Hitokiri]

I looked at what Shooraijin said about political tuff but I think this is ok cause I'm not drawing at all at the Iraqi War or any other war for that matter.

Is it all right for Christians to kill in war? Cause we aren't directly protecting our loved ones but to an effect we are.

[Nate]

I looked at what Shooraijin said about political tuff but I think this is ok cause I'm not drawing at all at the Iraqi War or any other war for that matter.

Is it all right for Christians to kill in war? Cause we aren't directly protecting our loved ones but to an effect we are.

Well, remember, governments are God's representatives on earth, and are there according to His will (be it for good or bad purposes).

Remember, we are to submit to our government's authority, so long as it is not grossly immoral or un-Christian. In addition, the military (so long as they do not reinstitute the draft) is completely voluntary. Further, countless wars were fought in the name of the Lord in the Old Testament, for His purposes.

I think if you are ordered to do something by the government, then you should obey, and you will be seen as righteous in God's eyes...as I said, so long as it isn't anything grossly immoral, and I don't think killing people in the context of a war is.

[Kaori]

For me there's a verse in Exodus (22:2-3) about its ok to kill an intruder at night but after sunrise could not. This is because of the intentions at night are unknown. That's a biblical standpoint.

I do not mean any disrespect towards your opinion; however, if you are going to cite Old Testament Law, keep in mind that there were also laws that condemned to death anyone who cursed his parent or committed adultery (Leviticus 20:9-10. The verses immediately following list a number of other sins punishable by death).

[Jasdero]

If you don't want to worry about lawsuits, just put up a notice:

"By entering this property, you release the owner and maintainer of this property from any responsibility for your life, health, and physical and mental condition. You further agree that should you be injured or killed on this property, you will accept all responsibility, and you or your estate will bear all related costs, including but not limited to: cleaning, repair, replacement of damaged/expended objects and ammunition, all medical and legal costs, and any costs and fees related to the removal and disposal of your body should you die."

u.u / say goodbye to any and all possible visitors. XD;

[uc pseudonym]

I have nothing to directly respond to (because I believe the war question draws quite close to politics), but I do have a story I wish to tell. If you were to request that I back this up, I could not provide you with the documentation necessary to prove something beyond a shadow of a doubt. However, I tell you, in a Matthew 5:33-37 sense, that it is true.

A group of missionaries went to Africa with the intent of reaching one small tribe. This tribe was extremely vicious, and had killed all who had approached them, military or otherwise. This group knew this, but went regardless.

They reached the tribe, and as usual things went peacefully for a short period of time. This had happened to former missionaries as well, and meant nothing. Sure enough, the tribe eventually slaughtered the entire group, despite the fact that they were fairly well armed. Nothing more came of this, and wasn't seen as very out of the ordinary.

But some time later (sorry, I would not want to state a time that could be wrong), the tribe emerged from the village and went to a church in a nearby city. They all asked to become Christians, and the entire tribe was (eventually) saved. Needless to say, the members of the church were curious as to what had brought this about. When they asked one of the tribesmen, he responded "We knew the missionaries had many guns when we attacked. But they did not strike back. They had told us about a man who died for our sake, and they were willing to die for what they believed. We wanted to see why they would do that." [paraphrased]

[Jeikobu]

To protect the innocent, yes I would. But I don't think I could ever forgive myself. Even if I had no other choice, it would haunt me all of my life.

[Jaltus-bot]

I hope this is put ok. This is part of my own personal view and part of why I hold it.

In as much as in possible, we should opt for nonviolence. If violence, and possibly death are absolutely necessary to preserve more life, then I personally would be for it and if in a position where that is the case and it is up to me to act, I hope that I will. This stands only in defense of life. In as much as is possible for a Christian to follow the laws of the land, we should. Defense ought to be given to those in need and justice given to God for morality and the government for legality. Acceptance of random acts of violence won’t give the same testimony as persecution. No defense should be greater than what it would seek to prevent and it should cease as soon as possible with the rest then left in the hands of the government.

I believe that in extreme cases the death sentence is reasonable. I think that there are instances where war might be better than not acting but diplomacy, etc. to avoid it ought first be exhausted as much as possible. I would elaborate on my views, but I don’t know if it would come out totally non-debate because I had recently been debating violence and defense and I feel strongly about certain aspects of it.

If you want to consider the topic if war, try looking up the just war doctrine and considering whether you agree with it or not.

[Fsiphskilm]

Of course, some people are too dangerious to be kept on earth. Osama Bin Ladin being one.

I know God understands that we can't afford to sacrafise anymore souls to his evils. Many times the death penalty is a good thing to protect the citezens. And other times, Innoscent poeple die.

[Nate]

I know that in the days of the Old Testament, to sentence a man to death, there had to be at least three eyewitnesses, and their testimony had to agree in detail. Any less, and you could not administer the death penalty.

I also agree that the government has the right to administer the death penalty, as God gave them that right.

[Kaligraphic]

[quote="Sunako"]u.u / say goodbye to any and all possible visitors. XD]
Visitors? You want visitors? Fine, change the beginning to say "By entering this property without express consent of the owner of this property, you..."

Geez, some people are never satisfied.

[kaji]

*back to initial question*

Hmmm, I’m not sure. I would be hesitant to say that I could KILL someone. Separate their soul from their body, crush their life into an empty shell… I have a hard time even striking some one (with the intent of hurting them).

If the lives (of any one) were in danger, and I could help, I would. But I do not think I would have to kill some one to prevent them from hurting people (there are plenty of ways to cripple someone with out ending their life). However, if they hypothetically would not fall unconscious, or if wounds to non-vital organs (or limbs) did not cause them to flee, (and life was still at risk) I suppose I would have no choice.

Exodus 20: 13: "Thou shalt not kill." It sounds like you are wondering why if God said "do not kill," would He then decree that governments could send men to war to kill other men... The reason is that the Hebrew meaning of the word translated as "kill" actually means "murder" or "to slay someone in a violent manner unjustly." So, in the Ten Commandments God is saying, "Thou shalt not murder." Unjust premeditated killing with the motives of hatred, vengeance, greed, jealousy, etc. is murder.

Killing in self defense to protect oneself (or the defense of others) is not murder.

In my state, a person is lawfully justified in using deadly force upon another person only when he reasonably believes that such other person:
(a) Is about to use unlawful, deadly force against the actor or a third person;
(b) Is likely to use any unlawful force against a person present while committing or attempting to commit a burglary;
(c) Is committing or about to commit kidnapping or a forcible sex offense; or
(d) Is likely to use any unlawful force in the commission of a felony against the actor within such actor's dwelling or its curtilage.

However, a person is not justified in using deadly force on another to defend himself or a third person from deadly force by the other if he knows that he and the third person can, with complete safety:
(a) Retreat from the encounter, except that he is not required to retreat if he is within his dwelling or its curtilage and was not the initial aggressor; or
(b) Surrender property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto; or
(c) Comply with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform; nor is the use of deadly force justifiable when, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, the actor has provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter.

[shooraijin]

Osama Bin Ladin being one.

No -specific- people, events or actions to be mentioned, please. Keep this thread abstract.

[Jasdero]

u.u / say goodbye to any and all possible visitors. XD]
Visitors? You want visitors? Fine, change the beginning to say "By entering this property without express consent of the owner of this property, you..."

Geez, some people are never satisfied.

XD!!!!!!!!!!!

[John316]

If God told us to kill, whether it be one person or an entire race of people, directly or indirectly through an authority like the government or our dear leader, we must obey the command and carry out His judgement.

God isn't just about love, He's also about justice, and as Christians we are the hand of His Divine Retribution in this world. So if God told you to push the button on that gas chamber, you'd better do it.

[Stephen]

Well...everyones said there peace. This thread has served its purpose..everyone wave goodbye now as it floats down the e-river styx.