Teen Titans new episode

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Postby Arnobius » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:23 pm

mitsuki lover wrote:Nightwing is indeed the Richard Grayson(note how I try to avoid the nickname to NOT trip the censor :lol: )Robin.However wasn't there a line of dialoge that seemed to hint he was actually one of the later Robins?

It may be a garbled version of DC's history. D. Grayson (avoiding the censor) was the original Robin. Then there was a Jason (I forgot the last name) who was hated by the fans. KIA via the Joker. In Dark Knight Returns, there was a girl named Carrie who took on the role. In that series, it was implied that Batman never took on another Robin because of Jason's death... but I suspect that's become obsolete-- I haven't read Batman in years, so I don't know if there's another Robin or not.
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Postby Joshua Christopher » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:37 pm

Which Robin is TT Robin? It isn't D. Grayson? I'm lost. Not too followed up on the DC mythos.
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Postby Arnobius » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:41 pm

Impact Alberto wrote:Which Robin is TT Robin? It isn't D. Grayson? I'm lost. Not too followed up on the DC mythos.

It's Grayson. He became Nightwing in TT after breaking up with Batman in the comics. The others are kind of obscure unless you were reading comics back in the 80's.
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Postby Nate » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:51 pm

AnimeHeretic wrote:It's Grayson. He became Nightwing in TT after breaking up with Batman in the comics. The others are kind of obscure unless you were reading comics back in the 80's.

Which is the greatest evidence that the TT Robin is Grayson...since when Starfire went to the future, Robin had become Nightwing.

Also, AH, I think the third Robin you were thinking of is Tim Drake. I'm pretty sure Drake isn't the TT Robin, for reasons stated above.
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Postby Arnobius » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:03 am

kaemmerite wrote:Also, AH, I think the third Robin you were thinking of is Tim Drake. I'm pretty sure Drake isn't the TT Robin, for reasons stated above.

I only remember being ticked off that they messed up the continuity by having another Robin between Jason and Carrie. Of course, DC *did* have to do "Crisis on Infinite Earths" to clean up the mess they made with all the alternate Earths...

...anyone remember the continuity headaches from Superman from Earth 1 and Superman from Earth 2? :sweat:
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Postby termyt » Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:02 am

haru_bay_nay wrote:I thought it must have been her father, too... I heard somewhere that he's supposed to be this season's main bad guy, but now Slade's back. I never really pictured Slade as a henchman of anyone, but apparently he is now. Did anyone actually expect Slade to really be dead? I sure didn't...Dudes like that are too evil to stay in their graves!!!

I really hope they continue this Raven plot, because she's just a really cool character. I think Teen Titans would be ten times better if they quit putting in cheesy lines and made it more mature and serious (although it's getting a lot better). Violence...yes, more violence would be an improvement...Sorry, I'm kind-of sadistic, I guess...Or just insane... O.O ACK! So off-topic!!! Sorry!


I assumed Slade'd be back, but I believe he is dead. He wasn't the henchman type - pride and egotism prevented that. But now that he's dead, he works for Trigon (Raven's pappy, I'm not sure if he's ever been named in the series). Anyway, Trigon's definitely involved - he made an appearance in Raven's vision as well as the four-eyed ravens, which represent his influence in Raven's psyche.
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Postby termyt » Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:01 am

Since we opened the birdcage, allow me to try to straighten the whole Robin mess out for those who are confused. I’d hate to think you’d all abandon the thread because some of us are being vague and confusing because of the differences between the cartoon and the comics.

First off, let me note a thing about continuity and the passing of time in comics. Batman has been around for about fifty years and D(ick) Grayson has been around for over forty. In that time span, we’ve seen D grow from a young teen to a twenty-something adult while Batman really hasn’t changed at all. This obviously causes some problems for our Caped Crusaders. It doesn’t do anyone any good to make Batman age – he’s a popular character, but 70 year old crime fighters are a bit of a stretch, even for comics. So he doesn’t age, he just keeps doing what he does. This can be a bit of a stumbling block, but you just have to let it go.

Robin I - Richard Grayson. This is the Robin everyone knows as a part of pop culture. All of the Batman/Robin lore commonly known is about him. He was the first Robin and he was introduced back in the 50’s to attract teenaged readers to the Batman comics. He was raised in the circus as an acrobat until his parents were murdered. Bruce Wayne took him in because of the similarity of their stories. The Titans were also formed in the fifties after Robin’s success in Batman spawned several more teenaged sidekicks and the extremely popular introduction of the JLA (the first super hero team). After **** grows up and goes to college, he and Batman have a falling out. This occurred circa 1984, around the same time as a re-launch o the Teen Titans (which introduced the characters Cyborg and Raven). No longer Robin, Grayson returns to the new Titans team as Nightwing.

Robin II – Jason Todd. Jason was an angry young man. Batman took him in hoping he could funnel that anger into something more productive. Unfortunately, the fans never really took to him (it’s hard to be the follow-up act to someone who had a great 30 year run – just ask Jay Leno). He ran afoul of the Joker who beat he senseless. The editors of DC then asked the readers to determine Jason’s fate. In what I’m sure was a surprise, the fans voted to have him killed in the first and last reader poll ever taken to decide the fate of a comic book character. Todd’s death still haunts Batman, who swore he’d never have another Robin, to this day. As far as I know, he was completely ignored by the Titans.

Robin III – Tim Drake. Tim Drake figured out who Batman was (Bruce Wayne) and surprised him one day in the Bat cave. Even after that event, neither Tim nor Bruce figured on Tim ever being Robin. However, both Tim and Alfred came to realize that Batman needs a Robin. (Actually, the editors and readers are the ones who figured it out, but I digress.) Eventually, everyone understands this and Tim begins Robin training. He’s probably the best trained Robin (D was a natural and Jason was a train wreck) and he had to prove his abilities over and over before being allowed to wear the tights. Of all of the Robins, Tim is most like Bruce – a miniature Batman. I believe they borrowed Tim’s personality and Grayson’s legacy and name to form the cartoon Robin.

These are the three major Robins in Batman lore. There have been a couple others to be Robin. One was the afore mentioned Carrie of The Return of the Dark Knight series. This was a landmark series that re-launched Batman in the early 90’s. It turned Batman from the light-hearted Adam West kind of crime fighter into the brooding, scary, nearly psychotic man obsessed with crime that we all now know and love. The girl Carrie is Robin to an alternate future Batman who, as an old man, dispenses lethal justice in a devastated world – kind of like the world of Mad Max or Fist of the North Star. As part of an alternate future, this female Robin is not part of Batman continuity.

There is, however, another female Robin who is in the continuity. Stephanie Brown was introduced as the Spoiler; the teenaged daughter of the really lame villain called the Cluemaster. He liked to give Batman clues of his crime in advance, you can imagine how successful a criminal he was. Anyway, Stephanie became the Spoiler to thwart her father’s nefarious schemes. She became a regular of Robin’s comic book as she tried to play hero and earn Batman’s approval for most of the 90’s. She finally got her chance when Tim’s father, Jack Drake, discovered his son was Robin and forced him to give up his mask. Batman then offers the role of Robin to Stephanie, probably as a ploy to get Tim back by using his girlfriend to replace him. To make a long story short, Stephanie screws up and gets fired and Tim Drake resumes the mantle of Robin.

That was a lot of reading, but I hope that clears things up for the confused who persevered long enough to read it all.
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Postby Mi-Ru-Me » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:30 am

OK after that I have a question If raven has a mom who is she is she human or other. And if human how in the heck did mom and dad meet.

Not many people I know would go on a date with a 50 ft red man with six eyes and a bad attitude if you know what I mean.

And the last episode was awsome when her hair grew and the ruins were glowing all over her body madning.
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Postby Nate » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:37 am

I read the whole thing. Go me!

termyt wrote:I believe they borrowed Tim’s personality and Grayson’s legacy and name to form the cartoon Robin.

I agree...though it is obviously Grayson in the cartoon, his personality IS a lot like Drake's...that's what throws some fans off, I think.

To answer another of your questions, yes, they have mentioned Trigon's name in the cartoon (I think the episode where BB and Cyborg went into Raven's psyche...that was a GREAT episode).

EDIT: Mi-Ru-Me, I'm afraid I only know the origin of the comic book Raven, which is EXTREMELY disturbing, to say the least...I highly doubt the origin of the cartoon Raven will be the same, so in response to your question, all I have to say is...who knows? They'll probably never say.
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Postby termyt » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:55 am

The cartoon Raven's origin hasn't been told, but it appears to be the focus of this season, considering last week's episode. So I assume we will learn more about her in the weeks to come. All we really know so far is that she is the daughter of Trigon and she was born on Azarath, just like her comic book alter ego.

The comic Raven was born in another dimension in a place called Azarath. Her mother was a human named Arella. She was used by a cult in a ritual attempting to manifest Satan on Earth. Trigon came instead and took the girl to be his bride. She was rescued by the people of Azarath, where she was taken for safe keeping. She gave birth to Raven there and there Raven received training on controlling the dark powers of Trigon within her.

It's worth noting that the two Ravens are quite different. The cartoon Raven is a dark and brooding character who wields dark magical powers. Her powers basically work like an extra and very strong hand, but she is clearly much more powerful then what we usually see - we got a hint of it in the episode where they all watch the horror movie and Raven gets scared.

The comic Raven is an empath. She feels other people’s pain, which she can track and also relieve by taking the pain into herself. She can also teleport herself and others to pretty much anywhere, but the more people she teleports and the further the distance, the weaker she becomes. She really doesn't have a whole lot of offensive power, but she can release her "soul-self," which we've also seen the cartoon Raven use. The soul-self engulfs enemies, usually turning them into quivering, blubbering idiots by forcing them to face the darkness inside of them.

Both Ravens, however, struggle to control their emotions. Emotional outbursts tend to cause them both to loose control of their powers and invite disaster. When Raven looses control, it opens he door for her father to take control of her.
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Postby Nate » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:04 am

Heh heh...since he opened that can of worms, I might as well give some more backstory to Raven. Please note, I didn't write this, I got it from this site, which contains a lot of info about DC characters (Cyborg's BG is pretty bizarre too):

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash

The Titans fought Trigon twice, once in his home dimension, trapping him there, and once on Earth. That second time, he was able to release the evil in Raven, and she stood as his second as he began remaking the Earth in his twisted, hellish image (sounds like the episode the other day, huh? ;) )As the Titans battled on against impossible odds, the soul of Azar guided Arella and Lilith through preparing the unconscious Raven for her destiny. Raven’s soul, cleansed of her father’s evil, became a conduit through which the souls of all of Azarath came to corrupt Trigon with purity and "destroy the Destroyer of Worlds."

Raven vanished in that battle, only to reappear weeks later, amnesiac. Found by the Church of Blood, she was recruited to help him stage Brother Blood’s "resurrection" (having faked his death in an earlier battle with the Titans). In the midst of Blood’s worldwide telecast she freed herself of his influence, using her powers to release the thousands of onlookers who were under his thrall as well. Rejoining the Titans, she reveled in the emotions she was finally able to experience.

The Titans (both the team and the series) fell apart when the Wildebeest society (guided by the now-corrupted souls of Azarath) began hunting them down. Raven was killed, and the evil in her soul took possession of a new body. Though her former Titans contacts, she began implanting what she believed were the souls of her slain brothers and sisters — fellow children of Trigon whose mothers had committed suicide rather than give birth to children of evil — into people such as Changeling and Frances Kane. She accidentally implanted Raven’s true soul into Starfire, and was forced to seek her in outer space. There it was revealed that the seeds of Trigon’s children were actually pieces of his own essence, planted for his own resurrection. The Titans arrived, with Starfire carrying Raven’s soul, and Trigon was destroyed forever (again), leaving Raven as a disembodied, but again pure, spirit.

Captured again by the Church of Blood — now revealed to be Trigon worshippers — Raven’s soul was bound to the body of a teenaged girl. (The body was "...made from the sacrifices of Blood’s disciples," which might mean they created it mystically, or it might mean one of their number sacrificed her own life so Raven could take her body.) Sadly, Blood’s influence has reawakened her dark side, which Raven must again strive to keep in check.

As I said, somehow I DOUBT they're going to have that as her origin on a TV-Y7 show.
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Postby Mi-Ru-Me » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:12 am

Thanks that explaines alot you guys makes me feel better too. Maybe
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Postby termyt » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:15 am

Well, that's about 20 years of Titan history, so I, too, doubt all of that will make it to the TV show.

Another site with a lot of good Titans stuff - perhaps the most comprehensive site on the web - is titanstower.com

(edit: fixed link)
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Postby CephasWhite » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:38 am

OOC: 200TH POST WOO HOO!!!! \*O*/

You know what I hope they will do, is to put Jericho in it. Jericho and Raven are my favorite characters.

I wonder how they will put Jericho in it since he is mute, and supposedly, Raven and Jericho have a little relationship between them....for more information go to
http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/jericho.html

I just hope they do not draw him like the comic version.
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Postby Lady Arianrod » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:30 pm

These facts are very fascinating... Thanks for telling us, termyt!

Oh, and I remember that on the episode "Fractured", Larry told Robin that he comes from the planet Nosyargkcid or something... indicating that Robin is really D. Grayson (like someone said).
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Postby R. Zion » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:36 pm

Yikes! That's Jericho!? I saw pictures earlier but didn't know!

He looks like a Hobbit!
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Postby CephasWhite » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:11 pm

R. Zion wrote:Yikes! That's Jericho!? I saw pictures earlier but didn't know!

He looks like a Hobbit!


:lol: YES HE DOES!! :lol:

I was hoping he would look like a taller version of Red X without all the X marks on him. This is what I drew him to look like. It is a scene of Raven and Jericho, bust shots:

Oh yeah, that cross in the corner is my trademark.
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Postby Kisa » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:05 pm

hmm interesting....
Pro Robin and Starfire....
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Postby The Doctor » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:56 pm

Pro Raven+BB.

As for the current series, I HOPE they don't do what they did with the comics.

Seriously.
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Postby mitsuki lover » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:36 am

I wonder if they'll ever do another episode featuring Titans East.
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Postby plutogrl03 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:00 pm

This is pretty OT but I wanted to write an observation that came to me over the weekend. The VA for Robin on Teen Titans is also the VA for Maximillian on Dark Cloud 2.
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Postby Raiden no Kishi » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

And he's also the VA for the hero for Tales of Symphonia. Lloyd something (Irving?). With the red shirt and two swords.

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