U.S. Loses Ruling on Gray Wolves

[bigsleepj]

Interesting article on wolves for the wolf-pack.

Yahoo / AP Article

[inkhana]

Precautionary warning...don't let this turn into a political/bashing discussion or...*gets out the padlock*

[Stephen]

I would ask what ranchers are suposed to do if they see Wolves mauling there livestock. File a complaint? (Clearly those dirty Ranchers have no right trying to maintain a living) I still think its sad we live in a society where animals are valued above humans. I wonder somtimes if the people who went out and made sure Ranchers dident kill wolves, if those same people put that effort towards feeding the thousands of homeless in America who die each year...I wonder if people would praise those people as much. I mean, there dirty homeless people...there not a majestic wolf.

[termyt]

A little story about re-introducing black bears into populated areas of Kentucky comes to mind. It ends with "shoot, shovel, and shut up."

However, I can't also help but wonder if ranchers aren't the shoot first and ask questions later types when it comes to wolves. Conservation laws would not exist if ranchers and the like were responsible in their curtailing of wolf populations.

I suppose it's too much to ask that one side respects the "shoot wolves" part and the other side respects "if they are attacking livestock" part without getting the courts involved.

[Kisa]

Poor wolfies! I really hope they only shoot if there is good reason!
Don't get me wrong, if the animal is being bad go for it, but not just to shoot it....

[Zedian]

If the wolf is endangering the livestock or worst yet, another life, than some measures need to taken out of self-defense but for no reason, game or fur I think is wrong since they are an endangered species.

People shouldn't value animals over humans, but at the same time, animals are Gods' creation and we must respect all of His work, we destroy ourselves, we destroy our temple which is a representatin of Him. If we mess with wildlife for no good reason, than we are slapping Him in the face and suggesting we don't respect His creations.

It is sad, in this day and age, everything has to go to the courts....politics....::sigh::

[Fsiphskilm]

The solution is simple, install electric Fences like in "Jurassic Park".

Or just regular fences, then the countryside will look like a penetentry, then the "environment people" (God help us) will be all over you for destroying the Natural Look of nature.

In the end there's no way out, and someone IS going to get sued, the only logical and practical thing to do is keep the Wolves in a Giant PlayPen of some sort.

[Heart of Sword]

then the "environment people" (God help us) will be all over you for destroying the Natural Look of nature.

Hey, it'll help.

Yeah Termyt unfortunately you're right, and some ranchers will shoot wolves and place them near their died-of-illness cattle and say the wolves did it...some ranchers have installed motion detectors around their fields that scare wolves off.

If the wolf is endangering the livestock or worst yet, another life, than some measures need to taken out of self-defense but for no reason, game or fur I think is wrong since they are an endangered species.

Yeah, luckily wolves won't threaten humans unless they (the wolves ) are rabid/driven totally crazy by starvation, because for some reason it's instinctual for them to fear us.

I would ask what ranchers are suposed to do if they see Wolves mauling there livestock. File a complaint? (Clearly those dirty Ranchers have no right trying to maintain a living) I still think its sad we live in a society where animals are valued above humans. I wonder somtimes if the people who went out and made sure Ranchers dident kill wolves, if those same people put that effort towards feeding the thousands of homeless in America who die each year...I wonder if people would praise those people as much. I mean, there dirty homeless people...there not a majestic wolf.

People aren't saying ranchers don't have a right to live. You don't have to shoot wolves to make them leave livestock alone. Just shooting NEAR them will make them leave and they won't come back because wolves are very impressionable and they'll remember.

I'm glad they're being protected more. Ranchers need to find other ways to keep wolves out.

And hunters need to stop taking more deer than necessary and people need to stop settling wilderness. With enough deer, wolves don't care about cattle. Studies have shown that wolves, for some reason, prefer wild prey over domestic.

[Stephen]

Ah so. Your real point emerges. Had you actually read the article...rather then go into super seyan hippy mode..you would have realised that the ranchers in that area had not shot any since this had gone into effect. Kinda deflates your evil rancher speel don't it? Now, to correct your ignorance on the hunting picture. Hunters are not taking more deer then they need to. Fact. The reason states have hunting is so it keeps the population thin...so that your dear old Grandmother driving home from Bingo does not get splattered over her car when she runs up on 2 does standing in the road. That is why the state give out hunting liscenses. They carefully manage how many bucks to shoot, and how many does. If you want to blame someone for infringing on your precious wolves, take it up with coyotees. On years with deep snowfall...they have a field day with deer. Thus, the population spikes through the floor...and wolves go hungry. However, considering most states won't even admit there bringing wolves in...its not really an issue. Because according to most states "They don't exist here" Its the same with Mt. Lions.

And hunters need to stop taking more deer than necessary and people need to stop settling wilderness. With enough deer, wolves don't care about cattle. Studies have shown that wolves, for some reason, prefer wild prey over domestic.

Stop settling wilderness huh? Well considering where you live used to be wilderness that makes you slightly hypocritical....

As a law abiding hunter, who comes from a family of law abiding hunters. I would ask you not make arrogant comments like that again. I understand you love wolves...thats fine. But when you let your love of an animal blind you to the world around you...and allows you to run others into the ground...your borderlining on tree-hugging enviromental whackos that Volt mentioned. I just hope you can see someone elses side to this...rather then do what I figure you will do. Paint me as the evil man killing poor harmless animals. Its always the humans fault...those poor animals. You should go to a slaughterhouse some time and realise that animal death is a part of every day life.

[Heart of Sword]

Had you actually read the article...rather then go into super seyan hippy mode..you would have realised that the ranchers in that area had not shot any since this had gone into effect. Kinda deflates your evil rancher speel don't it?

Alright, Shatterheart, that was nasty. I never said ranchers were evil.

Well considering where you live used to be wilderness that makes you slightly hypocritical....

This is not by choice. We need to settle no more, and that was my point. We have enough to survive.

You should go to a slaughterhouse some time and realise that animal death is a part of every day life.

Yes, slaughterhouses bother me...but I can't be vegetarian because even though I tried it once on a correct diet, I got sick. And animals kill animals. I just wish slaughterhouses were more humane.

Shatterheart, I'm FOR hunters. They're GOOD for the environment because deer will otherwise run wild. It's just that I think they should leave deer alone in places with wolves because they're already being controlled, okay? I'm not calling you an evil man for killing animals. Wolves kill animals. Lions kill animals. So do humans.

Its always the humans fault...those poor animals. You should go to a slaughterhouse some time and realise that animal death is a part of every day life.

I would be very grateful if you'd stop mocking me.

You put down and tear up anyone who disagrees with you in the least, even if they're being perfectly civil. And you know what? I'm not taking it ANY MORE. I'm not sassing mods, I'm telling you in front of everyone exactly what I'm feeling about this. You don't treat people the way you want to be treated. I've struggled to continue being nice to you and what do I get back?

I'm afraid to say most of the things I think about you because you're a mod and so have the power to do things to me. So you flaunt your powers and say what you want to say because you can't be disciplined for it. So us members who are being silenced and beaten can say nothing in fear of being banned and punished.

But I'm putting those fears aside and, though this is probably going to be one of my last posts, saying this: Shatterheart, I've never met a "Christian" who's treated his brothers and sisters this horribly. Please see the error of your ways and pray about them. Go ahead and do whatever you want to me. It will only prove my point. You certainly HAVE shattered hearts.

[chibi_chan]

Guys...can you please stop fighting, you both are right, you both have your own opinions, so please......

STOP FIGHTING!!!!

[Ashley]

Wow this got ugly. I'm sorry to see you leaving, HeartofSword. I'm not going to pick a side and defend it; however I do understand Shatterheart's frustration in being painted as a bad person because he chooses to support one side of the argument and because a great majority of people already misunderstand his side. Heck, ANY time someone is singled out for their views and painted in a false way is wrong and sadly it's happened before on these boards.

To his credit, there HAVE been a ton of new wolf-support threads which only further irritate the problem. It's fairly irresponsible when you know a topic is so touchy, and continue to keep posting more and more threads on it. So I can't say I'm totally shocked this ended the way it did.

To be quite frank, wolves and their population problems shouldn't have even come up on these boards--at least not in the extreme, rabid manner they have. No matter what your view is, this is a Christian site whose primary focus is on the anime and manga world. By extension we allow other topics, but the fact that this became such a hotly contestated point just shows me perhaps we need to underscore that, and that's what I want everyone to take from this experience--this topic should never have been taken so seriously as to drive someone away.

I want to encourage fellowship and allow everyone to talk about more than just anime, video games, or Christianity (which would be the 3 major offspring topics of this site) , but please guys, let's be considerate of others. To borrow from Hank Hanegraffe: "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity."

Lastly, if you have a personal problem with a staffer, you have no right to air your dirty laundry with them on the boards. Each of us pours in hours of our personal time without pay or recognition, without any real reason at all other than a love for the community, and to see them personally attacked in public is wrong. The same goes for us too, and I would say on the whole our staff does take problems off-boards and addresses a majority of concerns via PM. We have a right to address a problem on site if we think it is one others need to learn from, but it is always (within bounds of what is humanly possible) done with respect and courtesy and again, done when we feel like others need to know about it. So I hope the next time someone disagrees with a staffer like that, you not take it up on site but instead talk to them privately about it, or talk to another staffer if you would feel more comfortable. To provoke someone to anger on site only heatens the dispute and does no one any good, especially when they aren't even online to defend themselves.

As I said, I'm sorry it's come to this and I'm going to go ahead and close this thread but I do hope everyone can learn from what has happened here.