A School's Guidance vs. a Parent's?

[Debitt]

My brother attends the same middle school I did 4 years ago (small private non-denominational Christian school), and I like to talk to him to see how his 7th and 8th grade experience is compared to mine, and he mentioned something interesting to me today.

Apparently the administration of the school found out that a boy in my brother's grade had a MySpace account, and ended up expelling him on the grouds that he was using an internet service that was only meant to be used by individuals 18 years or older.

Now, I don't want to get into the private vs. public school debate, because I KNOW that private schools can take actions that public schools can't since they're private and not government funded...my question is, what part in the nuturing and guiding of a child should be left to the parents, and what roll are schools entitled to in the rearing of a child? And more specifically, do you think my brother's middle school overstepped its bounds by playing the role of "parent" and expelling a student for, esentially, lying about his age?

NOTE: PLEASE PLEASE don't let this turn into a debate. I want to see a nice friendly discussion.

[Kkun]

Personally, I think the school was going way overboard to expel a student for this. Lying to MySpace about his age should have been the parents' problem, and it had nothing to do with the school. But, they are privately funded, so they can do whatever they want. My own opinion, though, is that the school could have taken a better approach if they felt some sort of punishment is in order.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

There was in the news recently. That a 4th grader girl was arrested. Because she brought a pair of scissors to school (im guessing big ones)

The girl was just bawling like crazy, she had no idea what she did wrong

and yet, the school system is like, gonna suspend her. Its rediculous

And school fights. yeah right. If you get hit. And you hit them back, youre both suspended. Yeah, if they hit you first. Like they're gonna get suspended? The school systems now have many issues that need to be resolved. They need to set their priorities straight. Soon they will ban pens and sharp pencils to school becuase you could stab someone

[Fsiphskilm]

Since he's b

[Stephen]

Just an admin warning. Keep this free of school debate and the thread will live on. Thanks!

[termyt]

Private schools can and do set standards for how student are to behave. Lying about your age in order to receive services that you could not otherwise receive is a type of fraud and is a crime, which I'm sure is a violation of the school's behavior policy.

Before going off on the school, I'd like more information. Is this the first time this student has had a problem? Was he warned that he needed to close his MySpace account and refused? I'd like to think that there’d be some lenience for a first time offender unless the offending behavior was clearly laid out as grounds for expulsion.

[Stephen]

I agree with that...as with all things there are very much two sides to every story.

[Felix]

Mmhmm. Although I do think that the school probably went a little overboard in what they did, some more information on what really happened would be helpful in determining right from wrong. It could be more than just, "He had an account so he was expelled." That's all I'm gonna say.

[Hitokiri]

I understand that if their are rules in the private school that require strict guidelines to follow however what you do in your private life is only known to you and God. Unless it is life threatning to any person, I don't think the school can be allowed to intervene despite it's public or private.

Now if the kid was using the MySpace account at school which may be a cause of internet guidelines usage, I can see why he may get in trouble. I got in trouble for using a nline RPG game at high school but all I got was a detention for it, suspended is kinda strict but then again, private schools usually are.

So I think the school was oversteping thier resposibility's as teachers, not parents, when expelling a kid for something that may not even be related to school and is in is private life. However, if he was using the school's internet to use MySpace account and thier are strict rules for this, I can see why they would take strict actions (which would be needed for lying about your age),

[Fsiphskilm]

[quote="H

[Mr. SmartyPants]

i believe schools have proxies all over their network

[shooraijin]

Right -- most schools use a filtered or monitored (proxy, NAT or otherwise) network connection for exactly this sort of liability.

[Fsiphskilm]

so he trie

[AnsemK_R]

In my opinion they should have informed his parents and taken some action themselves. This may sound harsh but a lot of kids in my highschool looked at porn if the history on the computers were reliable, as far as I know they never got anything other than a slap on the wrist and a call home, and some parents don't care. So the problem never stopped.

Of course that raises the question of whether a school has the right to judge if a child is being cared for properly.

"Much education today is monumentally ineffective. All too often we are giving young people cut flowers when we should be teaching them to grow their own plants." ~John W. Gardner

"Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics." ~Leighann Lord

[agasfas]

What gets me is that they expelled him for having an account that has nothing to do with school. I mean, I can see them expelling others for uploading files (naughty or anything inappropriate) while at school, but this to me... it's like invasion of privacy in a sense. It's like a school expelling someone because of someone looked up "naughty" things a few times at home, in privacy. Or someone kissing another while outside of school. What business is it of theirs-- outside of school? Both public and private schools need to primaryly focus on enforcing the rules while at/in the school. I don't think school should get too involved with things that are totally unrelated or aren't not done at the school.

So if he got expelled for something for lieing on the internet, and did something while at school... then I can understand. But if they did it at home and didn't bring anything about it to school, then they gone too far in my honest opinion.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

awww this brings a bad memory.

Once, in 7th grade, for english class. We were supposed to look up a topic on a controvery of today. I went to altavista and searched up controversies and such. I went to a url and that page was about controversies of porn on the internet. I was suprised ot i hit the back button. Our substitute teacher (who was also my science teacher's husband) asked me what I did. I told him, nothing, i just hit the back button. He told me to sit in the center table along the other kids who went to sites with flash games and stuff.

a few days later in science class. The topic was brought up, Us boys were aruing that mr. crabtree (my science teachers, husband) practically inferred that we went to a site irrelevant to out studies. Mrs. Crabtree then says: "He said you went on a PORN SITE" and the ENTIRE class looked at me.

It was so evil i didn't look at a porn site! I looked at a site talking about the controversy of porn on the net. And I didn't even mean to! I was trying to look up child labor! I was so embarassed. Now everyone thought i was some kid who looked up porn in school

[Debitt]

I believe the boy in question was given a warning beforehand for accessing the account through home. I personally see this as both a bit of an invasion of privacy and an infringement on a parent's job in the home. (initially that is - if he didn't obey the ultimatum, then I could see where punishment would be in order. Not such severe punishment, possibly, but punishment nontheless) It is a parent's job to monitor their child's internet activity and either reprimand or condone what they are doing. Heck, my father allowed me to lie about my age in order to register an eBay account - I don't think something like that should warrant any school interference, unless I tried to bid on something from a school computer (which I don't do. o_o; )

I feel that at this point schools, both public and private, are taking away too many of the responsibilities of a parent - health/sex ed, for example. My parents NEVER had a sex ed course when they were children - it was my grandparent's responsibility to teach them about it. In the same way, I believe that it's solely the parents job to monitor the activity that goes on while their children are on the internet.

I love the middle school my brother attends, as it's where I went to school as well, but I'm becoming worried about the administration/faculty encroaching too much on a student's private life and choices. They are force feeding the students THEIR moral truths at an ever increasing rate, and I believe that, while it's good that the staff of the school is taking an active interest in the development of the students, that they should not try to step in and play the role of parent to them. (unless in VERY special circumstances, possibly involving abuse or a parent's drug problems or something of that nature)

[Hitokiri]

Or someone kissing another while outside of school. What business is it of theirs-- outside of school?

Actually, a christian school in my area has a rule where thier is to be no kissing between the opposite sex no matter how serious the relationship is cause God frowns upon kissing between minors. If so, they have a 3 day detention as well as a weeks lecture of that subject matter. ::rollseyes::

[Debitt]

Actually, a christian school in my area has a rule where thier is to be no kissing between the opposite sex no matter how serious the relationship is cause God frowns upon kissing between minors. If so, they have a 3 day detention as well as a weeks lecture of that subject matter. ::rollseyes::

^^; My middle school was like that as well. My friend got called in to the principal's office and lectured because she was "spending too much time" with a guy whom she wasn't even pursuing a relationship with. Girls and boys were to be 1 foot apart at all times, and friendly hugs were strongly discouraged.

[Arnobius]

Back to the original topic, seems to me that if the kid did it at school, they have ample grounds for throwing him out. If they just found out via rumor or some such, they really don't have much say on the matter except to inform the parents.

Does this school have some sort of honor code where violators can be expelled?

[AnsemK_R]

^^; My middle school was like that as well. My friend got called in to the principal's office and lectured because she was "spending too much time" with a guy whom she wasn't even pursuing a relationship with. Girls and boys were to be 1 foot apart at all times, and friendly hugs were strongly discouraged.

The obscene things kids do in public nowa days.

As for the kids punishment, the private school probably didn't want to be associated with those kinds of people so they kicked him out to protect their reputations. Still their are positives to private schools.

"my underwear was run up the flag pole again, these public schools will let anybody in!"
"So why don't you go to a private school?"
"I can't, they won't let me in."

[Uriah]

Lord.. I am yet to hear of a cool christian school. (Or a real one for that matter... That sounds more like a pharasee school...)

"He has a website! STONE HIM!!"

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Lord.. I am yet to hear of a cool christian school. (Or a real one for that matter... That sounds more like a pharasee school...)

"He has a website! STONE HIM!!"

oh gosh, that was humorous ^^

[termyt]

I feel that at this point schools, both public and private, are taking away too many of the responsibilities of a parent - health/sex ed, for example. My parents NEVER had a sex ed course when they were children - it was my grandparent's responsibility to teach them about it. In the same way, I believe that it's solely the parents job to monitor the activity that goes on while their children are on the internet.

That is a very interesting statement. I think, in the "good old days," both the school and the parents took some responsibility for teaching good morals and citizenship, etc. Could it be we are now in a situation where neither the school nor the parents are interested enough in teaching said morals?

[Syaoran]

ya privet school are like that. my school is a publick school so you see alot of kids with a relastionship. every were you walk you bump in to kids who are kissing and that is just wrong.