The "not so sarcastic sattire about a letter from a mid western mom" thread.(warning)

[Technomancer]

:rant:
As for everything being evil, I agree. In fact, I see this very world and our existence in these mortal minds and bodies as both fallen and evil. It is a horrible nightmare compared to the glory of an eternity with God. However, we're stuck in this horrible nightmare for usually at least 70 years from the day we're born into it unless we die early or the Rapture comes.

I agree with the first part of your post: the worst criminals are not made by anime (or rock music, or comic books, etc). They are perhaps predisposed by mental illness, or by the circumstances of their lives (abuse, violence, the lack of caring parents, etc). This does not excuse them of course.

Anyways, I must disagree with your position on the rest. The world itself is not fallen- we are. If there is wrongness in the world, it is because we do it, it is a darkness that is in ourselves, and not because it is the nature of the world. Life, even as imperfect as it is, is not a nightmare, or at least is not meant to be one even as we are. We still have the capacity for love, for kindness, for great genius, and sacrifice. And despite all of the evils of human history, of poverty, and sin, these qualities still shine like a beacon]meant[/i] to enjoy the pleasures of earthly life. That's why He put them there in the first place! Idle conversation, or simple, pleasent talk among friends is a good thing; it helps us to be human, to connect with others. What we are not to do is to live solely for frivolity; idle talk is pleasent, but if it is all we are capable of then we are shallow fools. As for food and wine, how could we not enjoy God's bounty, or the skill of the chef?

[Psycho Ann]

I think there's a misunderstanding on what I meant (which happens often because of my not so clear cut rants). I agree that becoming a criminal comes from within (hence that "we all have the potential to become that one crazy otaku") which obviously goes with the fact that we all equally (yes, I said *equally*) have the potential to sin all the sins.

Since we all have the equal potential to sin, the only factor that determines whether we DO sin a particular sin or not is the external factor. Factors of upbringing and even biology would play a part in what a person DECIDES to do in a situation where others would choose not to do.

And now about the external factors I would outright say that yes, anything can be used by evil, but it can also be used by God simply because it's mostly media which is ultimately defined by WHO is using it. Since nearly everything is media, there would be seemingly good uses and bad uses to everything.

I agree with Techno on that the earthly delights (the simple "good" ones like a laugh with family, peaceful warm days, etc) are put on this world to show His love. But I also would look past all the seemingly "good" things just to find out if it is, indeed, *good*. If anything I learned, I learned that satan is one heck of a skillful deciever. Even warm summer days that gives you inner peace and comfortable lazyiness could be "utilized" by the opposition to be a tool to make you procastinate on reading His word or even doing something that was for His ministry.

I enjoy anime and manga, it makes me laugh, makes me gape in awe, makes me "learn" things but I realize that I spend MORE time and dedication on getting the next episode then getting to church. Even watch/read anime/manga in a more enjoyable fashion then I do with the Bible. It's not wrong per se, but I do want to someday have His words overweigh the importance to anime/manga.

If something seems "good", question if it could actually be bad. Likewise if something is "bad", look beyond to see if it's actually good.

Bottomline, anime is just a media. There's bad anime and good anime. But for me, I will ultimately categorize that the good anime is also "not really that good" because I'm going with the standard about is it good for my spiritual growth or not. This is solely my subjective opinion (on what I percieve an objective subject to be) and so arguing that whether anime is good or bad objectively would not really go well.

Again, I'm sorry if I sound too conservative or anti-anime and offend a lot of fans.

[Ashley]

Never apologize for feeling conservative. First and foremost, we are called to be Christians.
There's a reason this place isn't called the Anime Alliance for Christians (hint, the Christ part comes First) (well, and no one would want to be a part of "something pronounced "ack!"). So I encourage you to not give up your conservative stance on things.

[Bobtheduck]

Speaking purely on your comment, Ash, and not on PA or anyone else, just on the statement you made:

Hmm... Not give up your conservative stance? Well conservative doesn't always mean biblical (though often it does.) Often conservative means holding on to a corruption of biblical things, such as racism and things like that, which were considered "conservative". Ash. I think we should listen to what other people say as correction for things we may have been doing wrong. Not always accept everything they say, but at least give it thought and take another look at the words we cling so dearly to.

Our one true source is the Bible and if there's a chance that what we've been taught and believe is unbiblical, even if it's "conservative" than there should always be room for growth. When we stop growing, we're in trouble...

[Ashley]

To be frank, I'm not sure how to respond to you, I think you took my whole comment way out of context.

While your right, at one time racism and the like were considered "conservative" thoughts, yes, but I did not mean them as such. I meant "conservative" in the modern term; such as taking the bible more literally and anti-abortion, etc. I was commending Ann personally on her more conservative and biblically-oriented stance.
Honestly, the last place I want this site to become is a liberal anything-goes-everything's-ok site. There are plenty of say whatever you want forums out there, but I want us to be set apart as a biblically-grounded "conservative" site. And if that means being called narrow-minded, intolerant, or what have you, so be it.

[Stephen]

Word to what Ashely said. Word indeed....

[Technomancer]

Of course, that depends on your definition of "liberal"

As much as I ever did, more than I ever did, I believe in Liberalism. But there was a rosy time of innocence when I believed in Liberals.

G.K. Chesterton- "Orthodoxy"

[Bobtheduck]

To be frank, I'm not sure how to respond to you, I think you took my whole comment way out of context.

While your right, at one time racism and the like were considered "conservative" thoughts, yes, but I did not mean them as such. I meant "conservative" in the modern term]

Ok... I think we are in agreement that our beliefs and actions should be rooted in the Bible. However, not all of the "conservative" thoughts of today are as such.

Honestly, the last place I want this site to become is a liberal anything-goes-everything's-ok site. There are plenty of say whatever you want forums out there, but I want us to be set apart as a biblically-grounded "conservative" site. And if that means being called narrow-minded, intolerant, or what have you, so be it.

Hmm... I think you misinterpreted what I said too. I agree, biblically speaking abortion and homosexuality are wrong. I don't think this should be an "anything goes" and neither was I hinting at that. I also think it's true that not a single one of us has a perfectly "biblical" thought process and that includes what we've learned "all our lives" and therefore for us to not to hold on to those things, but instead when the issue is brought up to be able to take a humble view at what the Bible says instead of what the "conservative" view is.

And I didn't say what i said with any sense of hostility either (unlike some other posts where I was angry and I will say when that is the case) but I feel that I'm getting hostility back. Perhaps it would be best for me not to come back here, though I did like having a fellowship with Christians who shared a couple of my hobbies, but if logical debate and throwing things out for thought are going to be attacked, then I may as well stay out of here.

[Ashley]

Yes we're in agreeance with first part.
That second paragraph (you know, the one beginning with the rant icon) was not directed at you specifically, but rather a declaration on my part intended for the entire forum and my "expectations" for it, so to speak. I've seen a lot of good christian forums go down the tubes because of "tolerating" one questionable thing then another and another...eventually you have to draw the line. I just mark it fairly early.
And no one's asking you to leave; nor is anyone becoming hostile. If you still feel threatened, you can always just avoid "debate" like threads, even though this doesn't really count as a debate.

[Bobtheduck]

If you still feel threatened, you can always just avoid "debate" like threads, even though this doesn't really count as a debate.

That's just the problem... that is an area of self control I'm lacking... That is a problem, even a SIN on my part, but it is there nonetheless...

Hmm... I'll stay a bit longer unless I get drawn into some of those things again.

[Psycho Ann]

Curiously, just *what* do they call us Bible-oriented Christians? If conservatives have keywords like "racism" and "intolerable hate" in them, then conservatism isn't "Biblical" in the first place--then people like Ashley and the rest of us aren't considered "conservatives" at all!

I think they would--like a friend of mine would--call us the "primitive Christians". Now, I was a bit miffed before thinking it over--hey, doesn't that mean believing what the apostles in their time believed? Now, that doesn't sound so bad, eh? (other than the "primitive" part ;D)

So yeah, we definitely aren't liberals, but we shouldn't be called conservatives either by how the way "conservative" is labeled. Well, Ash, I guess we're primitives!

And Bob, I go with Ashley, you shouldn't feel threathened. And it's quite common in "debate" threads that it feels like everyone is out to get you when they're not ^^

[Technomancer]

The trouble with the "primitive" label, is that quite a lot of mutually contradictory denominations believe that they believe as the apostles believed (Catholics and Orthodox hold to this claim, at least in essential doctrines, and so as Psycho Ann pointed out, do some Protestants).

In any event, just about any term you use is going to be problematic. Neither liberalism or conservativism are clearly defined in their own right. To a great extent they're relative terms. As ideological lables, they have meant different things at different times. Unfortunately, there is also the tendency to use "liberal" or "conservative" as monolithic entities to describe one's political/ideological opponents regardless of the complexity of any actual issues.

[MillyFan]

The trouble with the "primitive" label, is that quite a lot of mutually contradictory denominations believe that they believe as the apostles believed (Catholics and Orthodox hold to this claim, at least in essential doctrines, and so as Psycho Ann pointed out, do some Protestants).

In any event, just about any term you use is going to be problematic. Neither liberalism or conservativism are clearly defined in their own right. To a great extent they're relative terms. As ideological lables, they have meant different things at different times. Unfortunately, there is also the tendency to use "liberal" or "conservative" as monolithic entities to describe one's political/ideological opponents regardless of the complexity of any actual issues.

Agreed.

I'm actually more of a moderate in today's definition because while I believe along with the conservatives/fundamentalists on basic beliefs (i.e. Jesus is the only way to Heaven, one must place their faith in Him alone to be saved) I don't agree with modern conservative/fundamentalist stances on many things. For instance, I don't support war, I don't support the death penalty, I do believe that older Christians have somewhat more freedom in their actions (i.e. what they watch, read, do, think, etc.) as long as it isn't explicitly a sin and doesn't hurt anyone else, and there are many other issues on which I differ.

I dislike being pegged as a liberal then as sinful/backslidden/wrong for being a "liberal."

[Turbocat]

Hmm this thread is kind of old, but this is an issue that is near and dear to my heart...especially since I've become a parent recently myself.

I've thought and prayed a long time about how much to expose my children to anime, or any other form of entertainment for that matter, if at all. But really, to me it's not an issue of 'this or that is bad' but, as Paul says, 'Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.'

In this sense I guess I agree with what Psycho Ann was talking about- forgive me for not quoting directly here- I've personally limited my own entertainment, the main reason not being that a great amount of it is trash, but because there are so many other things that are alot better and productive to do, and glorifying to God. That's what I think we should focus on...

I mean, as much as I enjoy anime and manga, it doesn't hold a candle to activities that I can share with others, to minister to them, serve them, or otherwise improve my relationship to them or our relationship to God. If I could use anime in this way, that's awesome (such as write manga stories, etc.). But if not, I'd better concentrate on other stuff that does.

If my daughter down the line develops a strong interest in anime or movies or TV or books, as long as she realizes the place entertainment should have in her life, that is, way behind God and others, I won't have a problem. I just hope I can live that example for her!!

[uc pseudonym]

I fear this topic has drifted somewhat from its original purpose. However, the moderators don't seem to have a problem with it, so I'm calling it sanctioned until someone else says otherwise.

Rather interestingly, people seemed to have talked circles around each other. I agree with just about everything that has been said. But that is not my rational for posting here.

I find the terms liberal and conservative quite sad. A spiritual mentor of mine and I have a running joke that continues whenever anyone mentions the terms. Do you mean liberal or Liberal? Oddly enough, I find myself on both ends, a bit awkwardly. Certainly, I can be stuffed into a category. But I feel the labels are overall more harmful than anything else. One can refer to the Amish as conservative, yet they bear no resemblence in some areas to groups such as Focus on the Family. Likewise, while I'd be more likely to classify myself as a liberal, people will assume I'm proabortion and all for gay rights. Even the term moderate now has stereotypes attached to it. Sigh...

Was this a rant? I don't really think so (hence the lack of a rant icon). So, on a more somber note:

...even though this doesn't really count as a debate.

Yes it does!

[MillyFan]

I fear this topic has drifted somewhat from its original purpose. However, the moderators don't seem to have a problem with it, so I'm calling it sanctioned until someone else says otherwise.

Rather interestingly, people seemed to have talked circles around each other. I agree with just about everything that has been said. But that is not my rational for posting here.

I find the terms liberal and conservative quite sad. A spiritual mentor of mine and I have a running joke that continues whenever anyone mentions the terms. Do you mean liberal or Liberal? Oddly enough, I find myself on both ends, a bit awkwardly. Certainly, I can be stuffed into a category. But I feel the labels are overall more harmful than anything else. One can refer to the Amish as conservative, yet they bear no resemblence in some areas to groups such as Focus on the Family. Likewise, while I'd be more likely to classify myself as a liberal, people will assume I'm proabortion and all for gay rights. Even the term moderate now has stereotypes attached to it. Sigh...

Was this a rant? I don't really think so (hence the lack of a rant icon). So, on a more somber note:



Yes it does!

I SO agree with this post, UC. You've taken the words right out of my mouth. . .thank you for making such a brilliant post.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

You do realize, don't you, that what the japanese traditionally considered as a "demon" wasn't anything like what we think of. There's was something different. It wasn't actually called a demon, but I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese.

You do realize, don't you, that this thread is about 2 years old?

[Shao Feng-Li]

And that the whole demon thing has already been explained?

[Ashley]

I have no idea why this thread was gravedug, but it's going back in the vaults as locked. No use in riling up people again.