A CAA Anime

[crossalchemist]

I was wondering if anyone here has ever thought of making a christian themed anime? A friend and I make short films and we have been thinking of maybe trying to make a cartoon. We have always run into the problem though of that we can't draw. No artistic ability from me, all I can do is write, and none from him, but he is very technically skilled. If we could get someone to do the art I think that we could actually make a short anime film. I don't know how long it would actually be, probably just a couple of minutes, but I thought that sort thing would be cool. Is there anyone else here who has thought of that sort of thing for the CAA?

[Spirit_Wolf8356]

I don't know about any anime, but I know there are a few manga started by a few of our members. Like Mave's Kingdom Come and Psycho Ann's Psychoteers. And UC is working on The Fall, if I'm not mistaken.

[Ashley]

Actually I have scripted 2 shorts (well, ok, technically they were AMVs) from Christian songs with original artwork in mind...but the girl who was going to help me (Nekomi) hasn't got in touch with me for months, so I doubt she's interesting in the project anymore. I would love to see something like this get off the ground and I'm willing to lend my services if we can get some kind of team assembled.

I figure if one man can make 30 minutes all by himself (voices of a distant star) we can definately make something as a team, right?

[uc pseudonym]

I was wondering if anyone here has ever thought of making a christian themed anime?

I would imagine the vast majority of us have.

The sort of thing you are talking about, however, is far more workable given our resources. I think in this case if you work with Ashley you won't need any of the help I can provide, but if that statement ever becomes untrue I would be happy to assist.

[Mave]

I've thought about it and tried to pull off something like what Ash described (something like a music video). My problem is the complete opposite of yours. I can draw but I don't know the technical part of putting a video together, what more add audio to it. I originally wanted to get familiar with Macromedia Flash but let's just say, it proved way more difficult than Photoshop for me due to my lack of education in the animation/video filming (?) field (I have never even used a PhotoCam before >_<; ) and my limited computer capabilities.

This is probably the best time and place to ask (I think I've been asking this question around for a while now but never really got good useful responses on it):

How are the graphics actually done? Are the graphics in 'cells' where you place ~ 25 (?) art cells per second or is there some simpler and better way which I do not know of?

Perhaps if you could entail exactly what an artist needs to do and how much work is estimated to be involved, I might consider such an endeavor and attempt to wrangle the support of other artists here in CAA as well....rather than we all forcing ourselves to master our weaknesses instead of exploiting our strengths.

[inkhana]

I have this idea...

In fact, I'm gonna use it for a Christmas e-card next year, if it comes together. We'll see... But it does involve some animation (though it won't be completely animated...heh heh, I'd stink at that)

[Ashley]

From what I understand, there are 2 ways to go about this:

A-- A rendering program (like...shoot I know there's a freeware one Shinja showed me but I can't remember what it is), sorta like how Pixar does their films. Or those animated shorts you can see on "Eye Drops" on TechTV

B--Something akin to what Nekomi and I were doing. That is, traditional animation with cels and all, scanned and colored and arranged into photoshop. Photoshop can use ImageReady to create gifs using layers as frames. Adobe Illustrator is actually quite good at making flash animations using each layer as a frame. That's how I made this, my final animation project for my digital graphics class (sorry it's big and a little choppy) I know a LITTLE about the technical side of animation, but not enough to do it on my own.

If we went about this as a team, we could break it up into units: scriptors, timers, character sketchers, animators, color'ers, etc. That should make it a little easier to capitalize on our individual strengths.

[Mave]

If I were to contribute to this, it's most likely that I'm only useful with option B, assuming it involves making 2D animated cells (i.e outlines and coloring).

I have a hard time imagining how 'gifs are made by rendering layers as frames' <--- @_@; Sorry Ash, that's Greek to me! BUT on a more positive note, I'm more than willing to learn how to do it (always wanted know how to pull of that gif thingy anyway) and can make the animated cells. It may be tedious but I'm used to getting the job done.

So how serious are you guys about this one or Ash, the project you were working on with Nekomi?

[crossalchemist]

Cool beans! I'll talk to my friend (he's been experimenting with some animation programs for the past month or two). I'm sure he'd love to do it. Once we get figured out everything that needs to be done, we can start figuring out who can do 'em! This has the potential to be really cool. I have Jasc GIF Animator but I think it would be neat to have an actual anime like as a video file. By-the-by, nice flash animation Ashley, I wish I was as tech savy as you and my friend.

[Ashley]

I have a hard time imagining how 'gifs are made by rendering layers as frames' <--- @_@; Sorry Ash, that's Greek to me!

Ok, quick flash frames 101 lesson: You know what a "frame" is right? It's the equivalent of a "cell" in 2D animation. Or those flip-books you made in junior high, where when you flipped the pages a little stick figure would jump or something? Each page is considered a "frame"--it's one little segment of a character's movement. It's what makes a character move, and the more frames the smoother the animation is.

The way I learned how to do it (and there may be a better/easier one) is to create a base layer--the base layer has the settings/backgrounds and the first appearance of the characters. I would then duplicate the layer, move the characters slightly, and then duplicate THAT layer, make adjustments, etc. Thus instead of drawing each frame individually, all I did was duplicate what I already drew and manipulate it a bit. Was that a better explanation, Mave? Sure hope so. >.<

So how serious are you guys about this one or Ash, the project you were working on with Nekomi?

Well, I think I can seriously consider transferring the project I was doing with Nekomi to another team--she's married now and quite involved in her own projects--I highly doubt she would mind if another team took it up. I hate to sound demeaning, but all she did was some concept sketches, so it's not like we'd be losing hours of animation by doing so. Like I said, she did do a LOT of work on it, I don't want to sound bitter or anything, but it wouldn't be a problem to work with another team on it. The second script I wrote hasn't been worked on yet at all.

As for me, I'm really serious about this and ready to pour in some long hours/months of work to pull it off. So you can count me in either with a new project or trying to accomplish the ones I've already written. I work a part time job, and I'm a full time college student but next semester looks like it won't be nearly as grueling as this one so I don't think it'll be a problem.

[Mave]

Yes, thanks for the explanation Ash! One more question, how many frames do you think is necessary per second for a smooth flow of movement (let's say someone walking)?

Like I've said earlier, this is a project I would consider putting in some serious contribution towards since I've always been interested in anime styled animation. Perhaps we should experiment with something short first just to test our current resources...

It doesn't have to have a Christian theme or story plot yet. I want to know whether we can even pull off a 30 sec animated file before discussing the possibilities of an actual 'anime.' I've always preferred starting somewhere small before gradually building upon it.

[Kaligraphic]

A CAA Anime:

Scene: a ramen shop in Tokyo.

Ashley, drawn with plaid hair, says to the ramen shop guy, "I've been thinking about starting a web site for Christian anime fans."

The ramen shop guy looks at her, and says, "do such people really exist?"

Ashley looks at him and says, "well, we'll find out."

*begin opening sequence*

(oh, I I believe it's 30 frames/sec even in animation)

[Ashley]

Yes, thanks for the explanation Ash! One more question, how many frames do you think is necessary per second for a smooth flow of movement (let's say someone walking)?

I talked to my cousin, who has done a lot of online animation, and he said the standard rate is 12 frames per second.

Like I've said earlier, this is a project I would consider putting in some serious contribution towards since I've always been interested in anime styled animation. Perhaps we should experiment with something short first just to test our current resources...

It doesn't have to have a Christian theme or story plot yet. I want to know whether we can even pull off a 30 sec animated file before discussing the possibilities of an actual 'anime.' I've always preferred starting somewhere small before gradually building upon it.

I think that's a great idea. Do a screen test to get a feel for how things will work, backgrounds, lighting, movement, dialogue, etc. Also, if we want to add voices, most of the staff and I have mics, so I'm sure I could get someone to lend their talent for a screen test.

One last thing, my cousin has Macromedia Flash and I'm gonna try to learn from him; just FYI as a possible resource. What programs would you be planning on using, Mave?

[bigsleepj]

Well, I can't draw that well (or anime for that matter) but I'm not bad with developing stories (my short stories tend to sometime go towards novel length if you know what I mean) and I'll be glad to help. I'm good with concocting allegories as well if you need them, but don't expect me to write dialogue since I'm terrible with that.

But also there are many other writers around here who are better than I am and you'll just have to go to the "Writing" forums to find out who they are. But remember - Anime isn't scripted they are storyboarded and it builds from there. To hear how Miyazaki (Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Castle in the Sky) does this, I suggest you read this interview:

Midnight Eye Interview with Miyazaki

(it also helps if you've seen "Spirited Away" )

[Mave]

12 frames/sec..............*__*

Alright, I think I'll start off with a small experiment and attempt to put some frames together. No sounds, no voices...just an attempt to get smooth movement.

I would be planning to use Macromedia Flash. Wish me luck! I'll come back here after I've attempted something.

[Ashley]

Best of it, Mave! I'll try to help as much as I can with this.

[Shinja]

24 is pretty standard for frames per second, 12 will do, but if you want anything complex you'll need 24

[Kuro-Mizu]

Most anime is actually 8 frame per second that is why it is so stylized

[Kuro-Mizu]

western animation is usually 24 but anime is 8 so that they can mass produce it faster

[Kuro-Mizu]

Oh and i would love to be part of a christian anime project in fact i am trying to make my own christian manga right now but i am not that far with it

[Arnobius]

More accurately, 8 new frames. Film runs at 24fps. The detail of animation depends on how many of them show motion and how many are stills. In anime, maybe 1 of 3 frames show movement while the others don't move. Cheaper than US animation.

[crossalchemist]

Since I was thinking of an actual video file (not a flash or anything like that) I think I'll experiment with 24fps. Also I don't like mass produced anime like pokemon or digimon anyway, the quality is horrid. I'll see if I can put together a short sample for y'all. I have my sister who's a an amazing artist and I think she could make 5 second film real fast (that's about 120 frames right?). Also, any ideas as to what to make for a five second sample? I thought of maybe some sword moves or something similar.

[Arnobius]

Since I was thinking of an actual video file (not a flash or anything like that) I think I'll experiment with 24fps. Also I don't like mass produced anime like pokemon or digimon anyway, the quality is horrid. I'll see if I can put together a short sample for y'all. I have my sister who's a an amazing artist and I think she could make 5 second film real fast (that's about 120 frames right?). Also, any ideas as to what to make for a five second sample? I thought of maybe some sword moves or something similar.

Guess I should have also mentioned that NTSC TV (US, Japan) runs at 29.97fps. If you work with mpeg on DVD or VCD or computer, the player should convert if the disc (or file in the case of computer) is properly formatted.

[crossalchemist]

I'm using Jasc Animation Shop 3 by the way. So I might be able to have a sample by the middle of January. We shall see.

[Cap'n Nick]

Good anime that reflects my faith has been a dream of mine for a long time. I don't have much to contribute to the production end of that right now, but I will offer in encouragement what I lack in resources.

There are a lot of skilled individuals on these forums. Get everyone together and pull through this for the long haul. I don't want to see this fall through the cracks!

[Jman]

If you want christian manga, look at steelblood...a link is in my siggy.

[Neo3DGfx]

Not that I would know everything about this, but my guess is that it is possible.
The problems lie in what animation style you would want to use.

For stuff like SD Gundam, 3D with cell-shaded rendering, I would think that would be the easiest. Just use Blender, or Anim8or. Something like that.

Another style, my example would be Gundam Seed, I don't know the professional way to go about making that, but if I was a good computer artist, I'd create paint-like backrounds, and add people in a layer-compatible photoeditor. Very time consumming.

And there's the scan every frame drawn on paper, colorize it, add shadows, intergrate into backgrounds, etc. IMHO, that should be easier on animators than the last option, but it would take even more time all around.

There are some more issues that come to mind, but I'll post more on those later.

I'm really new to almost every aspect of filmmaking, and haven't even touched 2D animation beyond flipbooks.

I say check out fanfilms.com. they have some very good tutorials on general film-making, and a good forum.

[Mave]

Hmmm...the challenge I'm facing at the moment is mass producing the number of layers used in order to make the movements crisp and smooth. It's an incredible amount of work and I've developed a newfound respect for animators. I think my biggest challenge (and probably some of you) is really patience and endurance Alright, be back later!

[AngelSakura]

Ack, you tech people are melting my brain. ^^ But if there's ever a CAA anime, I wanna be in it!

[uc pseudonym]

I am glad to see so much being accomplished (or at the very least discussed in this thread). Hopefully, we (not that I have any part in it) will produce a finished product by pooling our talents.