Do I have to choose anime or faith?

[Bobtheduck]

First off, If you are a child, obey your mother...

That doesn't mean you don't discuss it with her, and send her here, like some had said...

If you're not a child (IE if you are a legal adult I'll be safe here) you must respect but not necissarily obey your mother. She obviously has the wrong idea about anime but you need to listen to her words with patience and honor. That doesn't mean she can rule your every breath, but dont' discount everything she has to say.

On the other hand, Anime and Christian Faith are not irreconcilable. Your mother aside, it comes down to what is sin for you. There is sin absolute (sexual sin and violence against others and lying and the such) and all the "grey areas" are only grey for others looking at you. For you they should be clear. Either God says it's ok for you or he doesn't... Much anime is ok for me. Some is not. War Movies are ok for me. Sex scenes are not. Hearing swearing (even the infamous "taking the Lord's Name in vain") in most cases is ok for me. Yeah, you heard me right. However, some cases where there is no good reasoning behind it, it's not ok. Seeing anatomically incorrect nudity where there is no seduction is ok for me (IE Sailormoon) but where there is is not ok for me (IE Tenchi) Seeing Anatomically correct is probably not ok for me at all because I am weak against that sort of temptation, though anime doesn't usually do it for me... I am not sinning by watching the anime, but for places i'm weak it could nudge me to a sinning place.

As for Evangelion, the biblical refferences were overwhelming and "End of Evangelion" was disgusting and very disturbing...

Oh, and the Biblical Refferences in Sailormoon (3rd season) ammounted to the biblical refferences in Final Fantasy... Although I had heard that Naoko was a Christian, she is a Lukewarm one at best (she believes she has powers and has no qualms with Homosexuality...) but the stuff in SM for me was just fantasy and I can separate it from Reality and I don't read too much into it.

[Bobtheduck]

oh and for no objectionable content, Nothing's better than "Grave of the Fireflies"

There is one case of "the lord's name in vain" which is only in the translation, since there is no equivalent to that in Japanese. Other than that, and the fact the movie will leave you crying for days, it's totally clean.

[Kenchii]

Then comes the question:

If Jesus said it to you in person, would you kill Him on the spot? ^^

I would be dead before he ressurects.

[kaibrightwing]

with faith or anime? my choice would be anime. I will alway have my faith at all times. But anime is important to me at the moment so that is why i choice anime. Yes to you my asnwer is not right but to me it is my choice. I really hope i didn't upset anyone and if i did sorry.

[Michael]

Rev. Doc; You took the words outta my mouth.
Not all things are forbidden, but not all things are edifying.

[DanekJovax]

Hmm... whatever it's worth, I'll say this: I've watched anime for a good 4-5 years before becoming Christian, and still watched anime for the 11 years since being born-again.

Of the titles I've watched, I have seen some real heart-warmers and some wretched downers, with just about everything in between.

I've learned to be a lot more cynical towards forms of entertainment, and I guess my age (34) has made me a little more jaded and guarded towards the more objectionable material found in a goodly part of anime.

Nonetheless, I've learned one thing above all: if a title of anime starts moving your conscience in a way that speaks "this is bad, get away", then you need to turn it off and move on to something else.

Yes, in my time I've stumbled on a few titles like this (Ebichu, Knights of Ramune) and I've learned that I canhelp others avoid this drivel by seeing lots of new anime first and getting the word out on the notables (good or bad) to help them avoid the stuff altogether.

I'm willing to handle a little cr4p in life, if it'll help someone else avoid it completely.

[Frank]

Neon genesis is entertainment that uses the bible stories for a theme (i've also been led to believe has themes from the qur'an (maybe not maybe so)
Neon Genesis has ideas none of which are of of blantent aggression and asks one to expand his or her mind to the possibilities, and if your mum believes it's bad, she is really trying to hide you from other ideas (to test this begin reading an islamic and or bhuddist pamplet in plain site of her, if she allows you to read them and research further it usually means she is okay with you going on to confirmt he truth for yourself if she doesnt she is sheltering you and probably has little understanding of other ideas/beliefs)

"there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256)

[Echelon]

Alright here's the deal. Christianity is about open mindedness and acceptance of other ideas, concepts and belief systems. It is not a product born out of the minds of narrow midned heathens who lived in a world 10 centuries ago that was 1 quarter the size of what it is today who only spoke one language. That is incredible tunnel vision at its very best. A true Christian looks beyond the superficial trappings of "ostentacious piety" and instead delves deeper into the crux of the issue, open minded Christianity for a new millenium. It doesn't mean you reject Jesus in favour of contemporising your life, it means you truly embrace the ideals that he first promoted. I am sorry to say, but if your mother wants to be a controlling uber-Christian, then its jsut not on. You know you are right and that the Anime you watch in no way promotes the downfall or degradation of Christianity, so don't be swayed by the overulings of a minority who sitll don't quite get the picture.

Echelon

[Frank]

my hat goes off too you my friend

[Echelon]

Thanks Frank,

To reinforce my point, I am just sick of the way people trumpet Christianity from the rooftops and then go destorying its very foundations by giving into brazen naivety. Poeple, and not just this guys mother (altho in principle this is the issue) are no more right today about what Christianity means then they were decades ago (this is decades ago where they colonised continents because of the superior belief of Christianity over the dark people). I mean, who says what they believe now is any more correct?

I guess I don't accept the fact that High Almighty Lord is sitting up tehre condoning such senseless indifference and ill-education. Anime is no more selling itself as the anti-Christ as that bald guy with an overcomb sells himself as Jesus' messenger on late night TV. Wake up to yourself if you follow a similar vein of thought, observe your environment with arms wide open not with brain shut down, it makes you look silly and guess what, your losing Brownie points for an all important someone.

[Frank]

How true my friend

People in general need to allow people to search for the truth, for only the individual can reveal the truth for themselves, they cannot be told by the majority or by higher authority, you must be persistent in seeking the truth, and don't believe just because your mum says that it's an incorrect belief doesn't make her right

[Echelon]

I like your point of view Frank.

It has been the much trumpeted mantra of christianity in general that the truth is out there, no one really knows what it is. Afterall, is my truth the same as your truth? How do you define truth? Its a consequence of perspective really, but Christianity, in its purest form (as endorsed by Jesus through the Bible) promotes self leanring, not puppeteering lunacy through the 'guidance' (or should I say dictation) of someone else. As the stories tell you, he defied authority in the light of discovery. Now, I am not advocating that you beat your mother with a stick until she listens to you, but rest assured you are not wrong.

How do I know if I am correct? I know I am, you can't be certain. But in the end you will find out, because you will choose for yourself the Anime or your faith. Except in the end it won't boil down to a chocie. You will realise that Anime and your Faith (Neon in genesis) all roll into one and there will be no need to define them seperately, as neither harms the other.

Your choise is exactly that. YOURS. Not your mothers nor anyone elses, so do us all a favour and cut the puppet strings, you deserve better than to be plagued by hesitations toward your faith when they are not necessary. Enjoy your Anime!

Oh, and to be quite Frank (pardon the pun) with all, I would like to hear and opinions of anyone else out there too.

[Frank]

yes true what does everyone else have to say on the matter?
echelon and i can only share so many opinions

[Frank]

if anyone has something to get off their chest about Echlelon and I, please send it to my new friend Echelon (believe it or not we were actually on the same campus!) as my internet connection will be terminated soon
thank you

[DanekJovax]

Hmm.

...

"Test the spirits, to know whether they be true."

I guess the only question I have for Echelon is this: What biblical verses support your positions on what you've stated in the last few posts? I'd like to know.

[richardh01]

Cant say I agree with everything you say, Echelon. Here are my views on the subject. Hope it wont lead to a flame war, but I certainly hope it will lead to an edifying conversation

Afterall, is my truth the same as your truth? How do you define truth?

Hmm... That's an easy one. The truth is Christ. He says that He is the truth - the embodiment of truth. See the Gospel of John.

Its a consequence of perspective really, but Christianity, in its purest form (as endorsed by Jesus through the Bible) promotes self leanring, not puppeteering lunacy through the 'guidance' (or should I say dictation) of someone else.

Christianity in its purest form is about getting into a direct relationship with God. See the parable of the generous land owner, the sermon on the mount and, of course!, the parable of the prodigal son.

As the stories tell you, he defied authority in the light of discovery.

He didn't defy authority in light of discovery, he defied it in obediance to God.

Now, I am not advocating that you beat your mother with a stick until she listens to you, but rest assured you are not wrong.

We're 100% in agreement about that! But we are called upon to respect our parents. That doesn't mean blind obediance, but it doesn't allow for outright rebellion either except when the principle comes in conflict with a more basic principle - such as loyalty to Christ.

Except in the end it won't boil down to a chocie. You will realise that Anime and your Faith (Neon in genesis) all roll into one and there will be no need to define them seperately, as neither harms the other.

Well, I agree that sometimes there is no need to choose, but the Spirit guides us according to our needs. For some people, certain types of entertainment may be negative. For others, they can watch whatever they want. The important thing is to pray for God to show you what his will is.

[DanekJovax]

Thanks, richard01, for that post. :2) I thank you for that, as I wanted to respond but didn't have the right words in mind, but just read your post and see that you and I are in agreement.

Doomo. Peace in Him. ;2)

[richardh01]

"Test the spirits, to know whether they be true."

Good point. Paul gives us the criteria in Galatians chapter 1 - If anyone preaches another Gospel - even a spiritual being - it is no Gospel at all.

I guess the only question I have for Echelon is this: What biblical verses support your positions on what you've stated in the last few posts? I'd like to know.

I would like to know as well!

[richardh01]

[quote="DanekJovax"]Thanks, richard01, for that post. :2) I thank you for that, as I wanted to respond but didn't have the right words in mind, but just read your post and see that you and I are in agreement.

Doomo. Peace in Him. ]
My pleasure!

[Shinja]

why to step up guys, i figure these guys are just out to cause trouble again. they obviously follow the same style as thier predisessors

[DanekJovax]

[nods to Shinja] Doomo. Just doing what I've been felt led to do, after reading that. ;2)

[richardh01]

why to step up guys, i figure these guys are just out to cause trouble again. they obviously follow the same style as thier predisessors

Not use to dealing with Trolls. I thought they might have been, but I felt it was better to respond on the off chance that they were Christians under false teaching or that perhaps they were open minded trolls.

[SailorX]

It's hard to say. A few times I've asked myself that, but I've also picked up some really thoughtful things. Like:

Kagome of Inuyasha, Though she loves Inuyasha, she keeps saving Kikyou because she know about his feelings for her, (Kikyou never thanks her either)no matter how many times her heart has been broken, essentially, she rather her heart break then to see Inuyasha unhappy. Plus she's like that for other people too.


But my favorite is Toru Honda from "Fruits Basket"

The compassion she has and, it's hard to describe, but I look up to her about compassion, helping, not judgeing and no matter the situation, even though her mother died, she still lives every day with a smile and every episode, she helps someone and gives almost inspirational thought every time. I'm just amazed by her.


So it depends actually. When it come to morailty, you Shouldn't put anime in it's own category, They show worse stuff on network TV then most Anime. I think Buffy the Vampire slayer gets me the most grrrrrrrr.

[Technomancer]

It has been the much trumpeted mantra of christianity in general that the truth is out there, no one really knows what it is. Afterall, is my truth the same as your truth? How do you define truth? Its a consequence of perspective really, but Christianity, in its purest form (as endorsed by Jesus through the Bible) promotes self leanring, not puppeteering lunacy through the 'guidance' (or should I say dictation) of someone else. As the stories tell you, he defied authority in the light of discovery. Now, I am not advocating that you beat your mother with a stick until she listens to you, but rest assured you are not wrong.

I welcome your views, and agree with some of what you have to say. You are quite right to say that Christianity (and by consequence, the Church) ought to promote the growth of human knowledge- and especially self knowledge. To study creation is to come to understand something of God. To know ourselves, made as we are in the image of God is to do the same.

However the ultimate truth about ourselves is not reachable solely through our own efforts, but is only to be found through Revelation.

[Quote]The Church is no stranger to this journey of discovery, nor could she ever be. From the moment when, through the Paschal Mystery, she received the gift of the ultimate truth about human life, the Church has made her pilgrim way along the paths of the world to proclaim that Jesus Christ is “]

You are also right to say that Christianity is not about slavish devotion to authority. God did not make marionettes, but men born with freedom and dignity. Christ says to all "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free". Authentic freedom can only come though knowledge of the truth, and that truth is only expressed in fullness in the Chrisitian faith.

As for the original question, which regards one member's issues with their parents it is true that children are admonished to obey their parents. However, this goes both ways, where this instruction is found in the bible, it is immediately followed by directive to parents to respect their children. Clearly, a parent needs to realize that 16 is not 6, and that by allowing their children to grow in freedom (and responsibility) they are performing their duties to the fullest.

[Frank]

i appreciate your viewpoints and the fact that no one is blatently attacking Echelon and myself for our opinions, i can assure you that i am not a trouble maker, i simply came to voice my opinions on this forum, not to attack anyones belief system or to be a "troll"

"There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256).

[DanekJovax]

Hi there, Frank!

I was just noticing your .sig... where's that reference from, if you can forgive my asking?

[Echelon]

Hi again guys,

Thanks for giving me a chance to voice my opinions! Granted, what I have to say might not fit with everyones common view of Christianity, but too often I have been branded a heathen (forgive the powerful word usage) for simply voicing my opinion.

I guess this jsut reinforces my point, won't you all agree? That in all the light of denial, and supposed unity, Christianity is as much about following the Bible as it is about interpreting the Bible. Even Christians themselves are split between literal interpretation and less intense readings of the genesis chapter (hence the new earth creationists and the old earth creationists). By point is coming, albeit very slowly. I am not going to lie to you, I will be honest. I have no specific Bible verse that backs up what I am saying - but my belief in this issue is grounded on a more emotional level (although I believe it also runs as a motif throughout the Bible, unable to be pinned to specific verse and or chapters).

Richard, I'll start with you. You mention that the truth is Christ, which I totally agree with, however it also appears that the truth through Christ is accessible through the Bible, which is a true text, BUT has been interpreted many ways throughout the years and will continue to be done like so for a long time to come. I guess you could also use Jesus' obediance to God as a vague analogy to this topic, but where would that get us?

Technomancer, I agree with your viewpoints as well. We were given free will by God for a reason, and I somehow dont think it was to attach ourselves to authority. Thats not the way it should be.

Yes true, downright defiance of authority is not expected, nor respected, but you lose yourself if its constant deferring to a figure, even if it be your mother. You are your own person, lets try to keep the peace.

Alright, my point. My point is that Christianity is what we each make it. My Christianity is not the same as yours,a nd whislt I base it heavily on the bible, I cant tlel you anything specific about why I believe what I do. Mine is an emotional belief, based on my acceptance of the Lord as an open minded caregiver to the human race, who doesn't judge will nilly. My belief may differ from yours, but bear in mind we want the same ending.

Trolls eh? I have never ehard that word, perhaps a little more acceptance in the chatrooms? Thanks for being as accommodating as you have!

[Lufkin777]

Hey bro, listen i have had the same thing happen many times to me, i have been tested about sertin animes and i even asked my folks if i should keep watching them or not... What i did was this.. If you feel in any way that the anime is even questionable than give it up, you will feel better after words anyways how ever this might have been God just testing you. Like For me i have given up many animes, ones i just trashed bc of nudity and ones i felt that they were causing spiritual blindness in me, God has given some of these animes back to me, like Record of Lodoss war, i gave it up becouse of all the magic in it... But God gave it back to me and said its ok now, i know you look to me, and will give it up again if I ask you to. Some animes i know i will never get back. Like Ghost in the shell, i broke that in half, becouse it went agenst my convictions bc of all the nudity, i dont even need to question that, it just is bad for me. So get rid of it, see if it helps, if God gives it back than ok. if not than you did the right thing anyways. Hope thats some help.

[DanekJovax]

Hi there, Echelon! Nice to have you! I just feel led to say a couple things to clarify where I'm coming from. ;2)

Anyways, I'll try to keep this succinct. I believe other threads may be better suited for longer discourses on these subjects, but I'll at least mention two points in-brief:

First, you claim that you are a follower of Jesus (claiming you're a Christian), but yet you also claim that you follow your faith (primarily) by emotion.

Woudln't this be a problem? Did Jesus ever act on His emotions? I thought He may have reacted at times *because* of His emotions ("Jesus wept." [Jn 11:35], Garden of Gethsemene just before arrest [Lk 22:44]), but if you can show me a verse in the Bible where he did act on His emotions, let me know so I can rescind my point.

Also, you mention that Christianity is only 'what we make of it.' I think your definition of Christianity is too narrow. Isn't the core of our faith based on the expectation that we'll BE WITH our Lord Jesus one day? [Mt 24:31; Mk 13:27] Isn't that what God wanted when He made us in His image in the first place? [Gen 1] How about the desire that Jesus prayed for the very night he was betrayed? [Jn 17:20-26]

I believe that in loving someone (I mean in a sacrifical, not intimate, sense - 'agape'), your desire is to be with them and share a living, dynamic relationship with that person. Hence, what God desires is for all of us to be with Him! Therefore, walking in Jesus' steps is to know (not feel) that relationship and strive to learn by the Word and by the Holy Spirit what we need to know to grow in the knowledge and character of Him. [Ps 143:10; Lk 12:12; Jn 14:26]

Well, that's as far as I'll take this in here. I believe I've made the point I've been led to say (even despite the fact I typed this whole blinking message once and it got wiped out due to a webpage refresh and I still was able to retype the whole thing with little effort, thank the Lord!) and if more must be written, I'll do it in another thread, as this is already off-topic.

Lastly, if you haven't been able to tell by now, I'm what you'd consider as a Christian Fundamentalist.

"If it ain't in the Word, it isn't much to me." ;2)

Peace, in Jesus! ;2)

[Echelon]

Ok, yes, its true I practice faith by emotion, through the Bible obviously, but in the end its sitll emotional.

You sound like a top gun when it comes to the field of clarifying your thoughts, I however have difficulty. I am only a recent 'convert' (for lack of a better word) to Christianity and my faith is still in a raw form. I don't however, from my knowledge of the Bible, believe I am acting blindly on emotions, or indeed that emotion is the right word for it. I act on a notion of the dieal God etc, which may or may not be true, but which is one I have formed through my reading of the Bible.

I don't know whether this is an example of Jesus using his emotion, but he did get anrgy from time to time (the market place incident for example). Technically, he should have refrained.

If you want further discussion on this topic, I would be much obliged, but please, tell me where to go, because as you may have noticed, I am new to these boards.

Thanks again