why cant I stop?!

[Fsiphskilm]

You might

[Yojimbo]

As much as I want to respond to that I'm not gonna say a word. I expect this thread will be locked now.

[Fsiphskilm]

why? I'm not

[John316]

Anybody here manhattanites who were there on 09/11/01?

I was.

I was doing my co-op in downtown manhattan at the time.

I didn't see the crash, but I saw the sky filled with paper sheets, like confetti. I saw the fire, the smoke, the towers crashing down into despair along with the hearts of everyone who saw it, then the giant dust clouds. I saw grief, I saw disbelief, I saw fear, I saw anger, and I saw horror that day. I'll never forget that 7-hour walk I had on that day.

[Fsiphskilm]

It seems lik

[Yojimbo]

Not agreeing with the war is one thing, calling America a terrorist nation is another. You went too far and everything legitimate you had to say means absolutely nothing now that you've shown your ignorance.

[John316]

Not agreeing with the war is one thing, calling America a terrorist nation is another. You went too far and everything legitimate you had to say means absolutely nothing now that you've shown your ignorance.

I think you're referring to this:

And We're doing what we think is pleasing to our president, in our own way, we have become the terrorists, we are now the enemy.

You read it as: "America is a terrorist nation."

I read it as: "The world views America as an aggressor whose actions threaten stability around the world."

Now you can argue that we just should screw everyone else and do whatever we feel like, but the fact of the matter is that US foreign relations are in the gutter right now, and that's NOT a good thing. Whether or not America is at fault for anything is debatable, but the current general international sentiment towards America isn't. Certainly when most everyone else in the world hates you, you have to wonder if there was any way you could have handled this better. I think that's what Volt is praying about, as I am praying about.

[Mave]

Take it easy, everyone. I don't see how arguing about US's position is going to help us deal with the effect of 9-11.

Anyway, I just want to share that this tragedy horrified me when I saw it on the TV (I was an undergraduate who was busy working the whole day and only learnt about it in the evening). I didn't cry, I was probably too shocked to say anything. I kinda panicked and called my boyfriend immediately since he works in the Sears Tower in Chicago and I was worried that that building would be attacked as well.

Eversince then, things became very difficult for international students <---me included. We had to face tighter regulations, higher security checks and denied visas (some students were harrassed physically by locals for quite a while after that event). To be honest, I was worried that local citizens would treat me badly since my country is a Muslim country and one of the terrorists supposed "stopped by" my country before this happened. Those fears have long subsided as time goes by, but I can't say that my fellow Malaysian countrymen escape suspicion and harsher travel policies. I assure you that international students are very unhappy with what the terrorists did since it gave us all a bad name.

It's a tragedy indeed. We should never forget it but we must become strong and move on in our lives. If we keep choosing to live in fear and grief, then the terrorists' intentions would have been achieved. I'm not letting that happen to me.

[Fsiphskilm]

Threads G

[AsterlonKnight]

(some students were harrassed physically by locals for quite a while after that event).

That worried me a lot as well. A friend of mine from my first college (and high school as well)is Indian (India Indian) and I was really worried someone'd try to do something to him just because of that.

[Yojimbo]

What i mean by Terrorist nation is that "they fly airplanes into our buildings, we fly missles into their homes" there's no arguement there, it's the truth if you've been watching the news for the last decade.

Looks like somebody's been watching too much Farenheit 9/11 or CNN. But whether you know it or not you are actually right in a way. Not in the fact that you're saying the military intentionally kills civilians of course... But as in we weren't tough enough on terrorism for the last decade and all we did was fly a few cruise missles at them and hope they wouldn't attack us again. World Trade Center 92, Khobar Towers 96, Oklahoma City 95, Kenyan/Tanzanian embassies 98, U.S.S. Cole 2000. Yeah the last decade was a pretty clear indication we were in for it big time with the way we were handling terrorism. And of course the number of terrorist attacks on American soil since we started the War on Terror has been zero so we're obviously doing something right.

BTW Ignorance means "The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed."
I'm well out of highschool and into college, and I'm also well informed and well aware of the situation going on in iraq, as are the MILLIONS of other people who marched up and down main streets holding signs and pickets stating "NO WAR!"

Yeah buddy I know what ignorance means and I still say you're ignorant. Volt ignorance has nothing to do with how much education you have. I'm sure there are plenty of college professors that can't even change their oil. And there are plenty of college students who think they know it all from watching CNN.

My friend is there right now as a medic with the 1st Cavalry in Baghdad. My cousin is shipping out there in a month after training to be deployed with a Fleet Marine Force. My friend has told me stories about exchanging gunfire with insurgents and not even 10 minutes later carrying them over to his CASEVAC to patch them up and take them in custody.

The truth is most of them don't hate us. Doesn't mean they aren't **** off that we didn't do that good of a job in securing the country properly. That is a mistake we've made and one that I wish Bush would admit. If they hated us every city in Iraq would of rised up by now and they wouldn't have a 100,000 strong Iraqi police, guardsmen, and army force.

Vietnam (why did we go over there?)
Nato bombing of Belgrad a city i once visited with family and reletives (why did we go over there?
Iraq (why are we over there?)

Vietnam: The reasons of why we went there are very debatable.
Serbia: Genocide maybe?
Iraq: Why? Because we need to change the face of the Middle East and that's the place to start.

operation Just Cause, operation United Shield, operation Desert Storm.

So let me get this straight you supported these military actions? So you supported us taking down a dictator that we installed in the first place, rescuing American residents, and stopping human rights violations? You supported us sending Marines to get food and supplies to a starving nation? And you supported military action against a country that invaded a sovreign nation? You supported all these military actions which have many of the exact same reasons why we invaded Iraq. That's a huge double standard Volt.

I love my country, and I support it in all it does, excluding the killing of unnessessary people (which in my book is the term Terrorist)

So then the same military interventions you supported, Operation Just Cause and United Shield, were terrorism on our part then. How are Noriega and Adid any more important than "unnecary" Saddam Hussein? Because if Saddam was an unnecesary target in your eyes then those two surely don't even compare to Saddam, who was ten times worse than them on every level.

Your book? Well the rest of the world defines terrorism as group that uses unlawful force with the intention of intimidating governments.

The US government and US people are two different things on their own, with each their own agenda, and historical proof that poeple & government don't agree on many issues.

The truth is that if we followed the Constitution to the letter we would have the grounds to impeach every president we've ever had. This is one of the problems we have. We have too many politicians in Washington with agendas. Our system will always be in a gridlock like this till we start to fight for real change in the government.

But God DOES Bless America, it's one of the few places left where Chioce and freedom is given, and chioce is what the Garden of Eden, Creation, and Wroship is all about, so when I say God Bless America, I mean it. It's just that it's time for America to bless God (that was in someone's sig... i know it)

Yes He does. And well I wish the majority of America would rely on God more.

is also symbolic for The new bill passed The Patriot Act good bye to our freedom, goodbye to our free speech, Hello monitored Library accounts, credit card accounts, bank accounts, Internet records, chat archives, e-mails... Our own country is nervious about these "oversea terrorists" so why not try to make the poeple feel better by telling us WE could be the terrorists, yes any one of us in this forum can.

And what makes you think the government couldn't already do that? This just makes the levels at which they can public and legit. The Patriot Act is a neccesary tool. We are safer because of it whether you realize it or not. There have been no terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. It does not just entail the fields where law enforcement may work it helps different agencies work together with eachother to share info. Before the Patriot Act the CIA and the FBI rarely even did that. You do want the FBI and the CIA to be able to do their jobs without alot of redtape don't you? And sure you can tell me horror stories about so and so being taken away in the night but the fact of the matter is it is neccesary.

reminds me of the Salem Witch Trials. It's only a matter of time until we start pointing fingers at our neighbors and screaming "He's a terrorist!!!" I knew it!!!! He checked out that Martha Stuart book for the sole purpose of learning how to disguise a well decorated bomb in the shape of a deodorant stick!"

You're only amusing yourself.

[John316]

Thread lock in 3, 2, 1...?

[Nate]

Hey, I read the whole thing!

And speaking as a person who has served in the military for six years, I have only one thing to say.

I agree with Volt 1,000%.

You want to know the attitude of the majority of people in the military?

"Yeah, let's go blow s*** up and then go get drunk and buy a hooker!"

I've risked my life out there in the Middle East. I've been in the "hot zone." Not as close to the action as the Marines, but I could've been killed quite easily.

An actual quote from someone on my ship:

"Man, it's all their fault that we're extended on our deployment! Let's turn the whole Middle East into a giant parking lot! Let's kill SOMEONE, then it'll all be worthwhile!"

I have very little respect for the armed forces anymore. That's their attitude. They don't care about justice, or righting a wrong. They're angry that their tour of duty is extended.

Yes, it's a generalization. I didn't say it was ALL the military, or even give a percentage, because I don't know the percentage. All I know is that this is the attitude of more people than not in the military.

I pray for our soldiers every day, that they remain safe. I'm not a heartless monster. I feel very bad about the soldiers in the Middle East right now. I wish we could bring them back, but we can't abandon Iraq. Even if we went in for the WRONG reasons, we have to finish what we started.

And having served my country, I have every right to say this.

EDIT: Note that I am certainly NOT implying that a person who hasn't served in the military has no right to speak on the subject. This is a democratic republic, and the people do have a say regardless of their status. However, there are some closed-minded individuals who would say, "Well, you're not risking your life so you have no right to say those things!" I was just making it very clear that I HAVE risked my life, so in EVERYONE'S eyes I have every right to say these things.

[Destroyer2000]

Nine Eleven was bad, yes, but it's happened already, so the only thing we can do is get ready in case of another attack.

Off topic, I don't see how Halo is too graphic...the blood isn't that bad, and guts do not fly all over the place.

[Yojimbo]

Yeah you do have a right to say that. I'd say the same thing even if you hadn't been in the Navy. The thing is you're contradicting yourself in an attempt to cover yourself.

First off mind if I ask where you were stationed besides Croatia?(It was Croatia right?) Or what unit you were in? Just general questions because I'm curious.

You want to know the attitude of the majority of people in the military?

"Yeah, let's go blow s*** up and then go get drunk and buy a hooker!"

I've risked my life out there in the Middle East. I've been in the "hot zone." Not as close to the action as the Marines, but I could've been killed quite easily.

Sorry wrong that's not the attitude of the people in my friend's unit. And my cousin is the Chaplain's Assistant. So I don't know where you get the majority of the military is like this. Believe it or not my friend doesn't get much rest besides a shower and a drink every now and then. There's not much booze or hookers in Iraq...seeing as how it's an Arab country obviously.

An actual quote from someone on my ship:

"Man, it's all their fault that we're extended on our deployment! Let's turn the whole Middle East into a giant parking lot! Let's kill SOMEONE, then it'll all be worthwhile!"

No I don't doubt that that is the attitude of some military people. Some of them are there for the thrills but you still can't make general statements. But I still have a hard time believing that you just pulled an exact quote from your mind from that you just remembered now...

I have very little respect for the armed forces anymore. That's their attitude. They don't care about justice, or righting a wrong. They're angry that their tour of duty is extended.

Yes, it's a generalization. I didn't say it was ALL the military, or even give a percentage, because I don't know the percentage. All I know is that this is the attitude of more people than not in the military.

Well sorry bud it's pretty obvious you're bitter at the Navy for whatever reason. No reason to take it out on the rest of the military though. The veterans that I know and the friends and family I have that are in the military right now DO have values and LIVE those values wherever they are.

But wait didn't you just say

You want to know the attitude of the majority of people in the military?

Try not to contradict yourself it makes your argument look bad.

I pray for our soldiers every day, that they remain safe. I'm not a heartless monster. I feel very bad about the soldiers in the Middle East right now. I wish we could bring them back, but we can't abandon Iraq. Even if we went in for the WRONG reasons, we have to finish what we started.

And having served my country, I have every right to say this.

Yes you absolutely do. Keep praying for them...

[AsterlonKnight]

Um....

This thread was really rather nifty, but I think it's going to end up locked if tempers and attitudes don't change...

Take it to PMs, ya? ^_^;;

[ZiP]

Ya

[Locke]

very intersting to read guys but please dont fight each other eh?

you cant change the thoughts of other people, the best you can do is inform them and pray =]

[Fsiphskilm]

i have one