new anime... too cliche

[Tenshi no Ai]

I remember a while back a topic made on whether the Gundam series was getting too cliche.... now everytime I look up a new series, most anime IS too cliche!

Seriously, 9/10 new ones that come out that I read up on at AnimeNfo, is the same thing over and over. "Some strange girl from wherever meets a guy. Crazy antics occur as the two fall head-over-heels with each other!"
-_-' Anyone else getting jsut a little tired with these? Some actually have worth while storylines, like Aa Megami Sama! and Chobits... heck, Chobits was intentionally cliche! But seriously...

Seems the only genres nowadays are "magical girl" "boy meets girl(s)" "card game/monsters" "mecha" and so forth, just to point out the more obvious ones. It's like the world is finally running out of orginal ideas. I keep using Wolf's Rain as an example, because it has quite the unique story line! Even Witch Hunter Robin that aired on YTV a few weeks ago has a uniqueness about it. Not many anime like it has a different story ever ep instead of continuing series. Maybe it will, but it's still good as it is now.

I dunno, not many 2004 eps have really catched my attention. Even the fairly new Full Metal Alchemist doesn't look too interesting. Not because I think it's cliche, but just because of my own opinion. *shrugs* Haven't seen it anyhow to judge. But yeah....

[Mangafanatic]

I'd agree, but I'd say it's always been this way. I would be amazed if you could point out to me a time when only 1/10 series were cliche.

Similarly, I'd say the statement you made could be applied to just about every other story telling genre. Sad, really. . .

[oro!]

I think the same thing, but thought I was alone. I guess not

[uc pseudonym]

The further I have read in the genres of manga and anime, the more I have realized that I dislike them as a whole. However, there are plenty of gems amid the rough, and I believe it is worth the effort. It isn't like any other genre doesn't have its share of derivative time consumption.

Personally, I am fairly impressed by Fullmetal Alchemist; I can, however, understand it being not to your personal taste.

[agasfas]

cliche huh.... I can agree with that to a point. There are too many Love Hina type genres, but there are some that aren't too bad. That's why I rent anime movies, usually they tend to be original. But you can also say the same about telivison programming; saturated with too many reality shows and sitcoms.

[Roy Mustang]

Gives everyone a hug that feels like this.


I agree that are some new anime out there that is getting to old in a way of story.


I have started to feel that alot of anime is getting cliche.

Wingzero22

[Kura Ookami]

I agree with this to a point, however, i find there are some really good animes out there. Few animes use the internet as a major part of their storyline. I can think of just three. Digimon, .hack/sign and Serial Experiments Lain. It seems ironic that only those three have made use of a story within the internet cobnsidering that the internet is a major part or our lives now. I'm not saying Digimon isnt cliche. It's just another pokemon, but im enjoying lain and .hack/sign.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Actually Digimon came out before Pokemon in Japan, but whatever.
All I know is Last Exile and Noir aren't cliche.

[Psycho Ann]

I personally think Noir falls in to the cliche of 'bishoujo assassins'. And of that particular genre I'm more leaning towards Gunslinger Girl for the sole reason of just how they handled the anime.

And yes, everything is getting old. But once in a while great things still pop up and I guess the fun in watching anime is to find that one great series.

[Tenshi no Ai]

Actually Digimon came out before Pokemon in Japan, but whatever.

*cough* Untrue... Pokemon WAS a year or so before even the Tamagochis of it came out.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Sorry my bad if I got it wrong but I was told this by my Japanese exchange teacher. Maybe he misunderstood what I was talking about.

[uc pseudonym]

The earliest starting dates are fairly arguable, for reasons I will demonstrate momentarily. Here are a few facts:
The Digimon anime came out in April 1999.
The Pokemon anime came out the same month in 1997.
Digimon-base Gigapets also came out in 1997 (I don't know the month).
Tamagotchi V-pets were most popular in 94-95.

It depends what you count. Also, let us keep in mind that it does take some time to create anime. Just because one series came out before or after another does not necessarily mean that the concepts were pirated.

[Roy Mustang]

It depends what you count. Also, let us keep in mind that it does take some time to create anime.

OT: Yeah, That is like Escaflowne took six years to make and I have heard there was one that took longer then that to make.


Back on topic: Really, if you think about it and as one poster has said, just about all anime is cliche as they are going to be in a group.

You can look at most anime and see that they have had the same idea before as a backdrop.

Wingzero22

[termyt]

Seems the only genres nowadays are "magical girl" "boy meets girl(s)" "card game/monsters" "mecha" and so forth, just to point out the more obvious ones.

Wow, if you put it like that, what is original? Homer's the Odyssey had many of the same themes and it was written over three thousand years ago.

There's nothing original and there hasn't been in cneturies, just new twists on old stories. But I enjoy even some of the more cliche titles if there's something appealing to them. A good joke, great interpersonal relationships, lots of slapstick, etc.

[Namelessknight]

Man, haven't any of you realized that Anime is a Genre? Of course it will have recurring themes, etc. And the real question you need to ask yourself isn't if the new stuff is original but how long have you been into anime? Cause I bet teh people who have been into it since the 70's have felt the same way. The longer you stay with one thing, the more you notice similiar themes.

This is like a louis l'amour fan complaining about how similiar his stories are. Whatever....

[Kura Ookami]

If they changed anime completely and made it so it was the worst anime ever thus being original would you like it? If anime suddenly became something we've never seen before and it was alot worse than anime is now would you buy it? I dont know about you but i wouldnt. You complain about originality, but you also want quality.

Anime directors want to make something that will sell, so it's safest for them to not ever try anything that is completely new and original. If it's worked before it will probably work again. Anime is like any other business. If you want to keep on top you need to sell so the logical thing to do is to make simalar animes to the ones before. It is us the anime fans out there who ultimately drive the creators to create what they do. We're always voting with our money. If anime has become unoriginal it's not the creators faults, but ours.

The same can be said for any media. Video games have become simalar to one another as well for the same reasons. We want them to be simalar or at least that is the message we are sending out to the creators with our cash votes. I just find it ironic that we complain about unoriginality yet we are the ones who ultimately have the power to change new anime to make it original.

[uc pseudonym]

Man, haven't any of you realized that Anime is a Genre? Of course it will have recurring themes, etc.

I disagree. Anime is a medium that contains the genres that exist otherwise.

And the real question you need to ask yourself isn't if the new stuff is original but how long have you been into anime?Cause I bet teh people who have been into it since the 70's have felt the same way. The longer you stay with one thing, the more you notice similiar themes.

That is an interesting concept. However, I think we are operating under different definitions of "original." For example, termyt described a cliche anime he felt was worth watching. There is a large divide between something being derivative and it being good. Yes, everything is a compilation of old ideas. But there are good ways to do this and bad ways.

Let me reiterate that: when I say "original" I do not mean that the ideas have never been seen before]This is like a louis l'amour fan complaining about how similiar his stories are. Whatever....[/quote]

Except that anime is created by hundreds of different people. Furthermore, if all of an author's stories were extremely similar (I am not in any way familiar with louis l'amour) is that not a sign of the author's unoriginality? Again, I do not mean to say that the author could never write in the same genre or have similar themes; but there is a massive difference between this and being unoriginal.

We want them to be simalar or at least that is the message we are sending out to the creators with our cash votes. I just find it ironic that we complain about unoriginality yet we are the ones who ultimately have the power to change new anime to make it original.

I cannot say that I completely agree with your statement. Do I buy or even watch cliche anime/manga (under my own definition)? No. If someone votes in politics and the other leader is elected, would you revoke their right to argue with any policy made?

All I mean is that I, personally, do not have control over what is created by various manga-ka. There is nothing that I can do to make new anime original. Hence, I do not believe I am in any way out of line to lament the current trends.

[Heart of Sword]

(in reply to Pokemon/Digimon being the same thing)

Actually it's only the "mon" part of Digimon and Pokemon that is a common characteristic between the shows.

Pokemon is pretty much just battling, while Digimon is about saving the world.

Trainers can have more than one Pokemon, while kids with Digimon usually only have one (unless the Digimon has a twin or something).

Pokemon is all based in a single world, while Digimon shifts between the digital world and reality...

The list goes on and on...and on...and on.



I don't think that Rurouni Kenshin is cliche. (Inuyasha sort of is, though.) Neither is Wolf's Rain. (I love those shows... )

[Tenshi no Ai]

I don't think that Rurouni Kenshin is cliche. (Inuyasha sort of is, though.) Neither is Wolf's Rain. (I love those shows... )

Kenshin's more cliche than Kenshin. Kenshin is in that whole samurai genre, but I wouldn't quite call it cliche, because I haven't seen stuff like Samurai 7 and Peacemaker Kuragane to know.

[Roy Mustang]

Its true that just about all anime is cliche anime to a point.

I will watch cliche anime, but I don't like something that the story has been told before as the same plot.

I think I just shot myself in the foot with what I just said there about Wolf's Rain.

I'm too lazy to change it now.


Wingzero22

[plutogrl03]

Wow, if you put it like that, what is original? Homer's the Odyssey had many of the same themes and it was written over three thousand years ago.

There's nothing original and there hasn't been in cneturies, just new twists on old stories. But I enjoy even some of the more cliche titles if there's something appealing to them. A good joke, great interpersonal relationships, lots of slapstick, etc.

In my opinion, what termyt is saying is very true. Practically every storyline has it's archtypes and similar themes. There's nothing new under the sun. I think that's in the Bible somewhere. Anyone here know where it is? *goes off to search for verse*

[uc pseudonym]

It is in Ecclesiastes and is repeated often enough that you can probably find it fairly easily.

[SonicRose]

Nothing wrong with Chliché, as long as it's done well. Not Anime but...

Thundercats back in the 80's did a story where Lion-O was being chased by a Hunter, and to make matters worse, he was chained to his worst enemy (I think...) That being said, the two had to work together to get free and outwit the Hunter. I liked it. I know it's been done before but I liked it. (It's been debated that Thundercats and the other children Rankin/Bass produced are TECHNICALLY Anime, since Japanese Animators were hired to do all or most of the animation, and also explains the bad lipsynch.. Doesn't matter too much since it was made for American Audiences.)

Also in the 80s... The Pirates of Dark Water did the same thing with a sligth twist. The Hero, Wren, was chained to the dread Pirate Bloth, and they had to work together to navigate a deadly island and avoid two hunting adversaries. Their fates were gambled and bet on by these frog people from the sea, just for a game. It felt lame.

As a Sonic Fan, I'm also a Knuckles Fan, and he hada comic (produced by Archie Comics) that lasted 32 issues. The last 3 had.. oh guess what? The Hunter theme. It introduced, for the first and last time, a Gorilla who apparently bullied Knuckles when he was younger. This was never mentioned before and hasn't been mentioned since. It was the worst three issues ever. They were of course, hunted, and chained together, and had to work together. But... the Gorilla died in the end, which also made the 'death' of the comic even worse. I was not happy. (Hey! Sonic the Hedgehog came from Japan so this is... Not Manga. But it's the best America has.. joycookies, I heard the UK comics were better, and would love to own a Sonic Manga some day... ^^)

In summation, I believe it's said in Ecclesiastes
1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Or, to quote Horseshack from "Welcome Back Kotter" ... "What is is, What was was. What will be WAAAAAAaas... And will be again!"

Ja matta ne

[Momus]

now im all depressed because it made me analyze all of the stuff i watch and read/look at, and i realize that the themes are oft repeated and i feel dumb for liking it but i have to because i cant help it. im so sad.

[uc pseudonym]

There is no need to feel sad for liking such; please do not be. At times similar things can have value by their repetition. You need not feel guilty for such, it is part of human nature.

Allow me to give a personal example: I at times play a few pointless minigames or Mario 3 on my computer. These are always highly redundant. But at times they have value for me beyond their own intrinsic value. Does that make sense?

This is, of course, in keeping with my other positions as stated here.

[RoyalWing]

This is an interesting thread. ^v^

Well, I think Japananime are animations like anything else, so of course there is only a few good ones in a million! But the ones that are good are really worth watching (or reading, in comic books.). It's all with your personal taste!

It's impossible to come up with something new, I think. But you can take something and present it in a new way.

This thread reminds me of a free dvd I received at the convention I went to. Finally watched it recently, and there is really only 2 or 3 trailers that I was interested in. The others were honestly very poor.
The two I remember is: "Gungrave", because it looks very weird and... well, it's a show about shooting ugly things based on a game about shooting ugly things. I like shooting (<< very bad... ^-^;; ) so... this is my personal taste!
And the other was "Samurai Champloo", because the character design and the style was very nice and original. So it's an old idea (samurai and swords and other things..) but it's presented in a new way!

I've said everything..

[SonicRose]

I think I was told once the Art of originality is taking something old and nd making it seem new. Presenting it in a new and interesting way. Ultimately the world's oldest theme is Good (God) versus Evil (Sin) And well, God gave us the Book, we Read, We know The ENding *wink* (God Wins! YAY!)

[Kura Ookami]

The battle between God and Satan is still ongoing, so the true outcome of that battle is still unclear. Still apeaking on my position on this matter. That we want cliche stuff, how would everyone here feel if instead of the Good guys winning the Bad guys were the victors in the end of the story? Personally speaking i wouldnt want that.

I mean a story about how a hero, say gaining tiny victories when he did win and crushing defeats when he lost resulting in a final defeat of the hero in the end of the story would be a very original storyline, but nobody wants to see a hero be defeated. Why? Because we like to see the good guys win. To see that good will always find a way no matter how tough it gets.

Would any of you watch an anime where that happened? Where no matter what the hero did he was doomed to fail in the end? I don't think anyone wants that kind of story. It's too depressing and sends out the message that no matter what evil will always win. Again we want the cliche of the hero always being the ultimate victor.

This is, of course, keeping with my position on this subject.

[RoyalWing]

I think I would. I think it would be a very dramatic storyline. You could probably decide for yourself whether the hero was truly defeated or not.

EDIT: But wait, that would mean. Hmm. ^-^;;;

[uc pseudonym]

That would be original indeed; I don't think I'd really mind, though that would certainly be depressing. In that case, the sheer originality might actually amount to quality, to a certain degree.

Regarding aforementioned ongoing battle... whether the outcome is determined depends entirely on which outcome is referenced. Ultimately, speaking in traditional terms of victory and defeat, God's victory is certain. At the moment the battle is more about people, where the outcome is not set in stone (though arguably a nontemporal being would be aware of the outcome).

In general, yes, we want the hero to be victorious. However, I would term that a part of the genre, not a cliche. Books are not cliche because they all feature text on paper; similarly, we generally do not want anime showing reality, but anime showing a heroic world. One element of a heroic world is that the heros are victorious.

Let me expand upon the example you presented. Yes, we wish the hero to triumph (or the protagonist, if they are less than heroic). But I think we would object if, at the last second, the hero triumphs by lifting several tons of solid granite, the villains all become nice and friendly, the primarily love interest has a complete change of heart and the hero's dead puppy comes back to life (this would happen in, oh, a minute and a half). The first is common, the second is cliche. But this is merely my take on it.