The "Nephilim"

[Kaligraphic]

It's totally irrelevent to salvation, true, but I suppose it's fun to theorize.

Where the Bible refers to the "sons of God" in the production of the Nephilim, I believe the wording is "bene elohim" or "sons of elohim". The phrase from Psalm 8:5, "a little lower than elohim" is quoted in Hebrews as "a little lower that the angels". If we accept this equivalence, and I think it makes sense, then it would be the sons of the angels with the daughters of men.

I would think this reading would make more sense, because the Bible talks about reckoning sonship by the spirit - "the sons of faith" being the true sons of Abraham and all that - so this doesn't necessarily mean that these are sons of the Most High. A son of the Most High would be spiritually patterned after his father, and so his spirit would be holy and wouldn't want to mess things up. On the other hand, the Bible talks about the devil as having angels, whose children wouldn't necessarily mind messing things up - these would seem to be more likely candidates that the still-holy angels.

Of course, I don't put this forth as doctrine, because I'm not entirely sure of it. It's just a theory, but it seems to make sense.

[Heart of Sword]

Interesting discussion. I'm glad that it hasn't gotten out of hand as some people get angry about the subject (I was hesitant to starting the thread).

Here's what I think...

1) If the Nephilim were descended of demon-possessed men, it wouldn't have affected their genes.

2) The Nephilim were wiped out during the flood; God destroyed all life on Earth except those in the ark. But that wouldn't keep Noah's descendents from marrying demons, who weren't apparently affected by the flood.

3) The Nephilim probably weren't incredibly huge (for example, 200 feet tall) because then their mothers wouldn't be able to conceive them, let alone the fact that it would be impossible for a woman to you-know-what with a 200 foot tall demon.

4) Are there still Nephilim living today? It's not impossible. The purebred (that sounds like a very odd word to use here) people might have been shorter than usual, but that cannot be proven. What I wonder is, what about people whose, I don't know, incredibly-distant-grandfather was a Nephilim--are they evil and going to hell?



That's just what I think. It's a pretty interesting discussion. I think that it's sort of fun to wonder what the Nephilim really were...

[skynes]

I figure the Nephilim would have been about 10-12 feet tall at the very most. Even then theyd be very small as babies (You know any 12ft babies?) so their mothers could still conceive them.

1) If the Nephilim were descended of demon-possessed men, it wouldn't have affected their genes.

That's kinda why I think they "Sons of God" has to have been angels or demons or some sort of powerful being.

[Anna Mae]

Wow, this discussion is fascinating. When I read about the Nephilim in the Bible for the first time I was like "...What?...whoa...I didn't know that was possible...um...Dad...?" So, yeah. Anyway, I'm glad you brought it up, Heart of Sword.

[Heart of Sword]

[Jericho]

I think they were descendants of fallen angels. I also think that its possible that some could exist today or in the future. There are some things going on in Daneil and Revelation that can be interpreted as Nephilm. Not saying that I do, but I've heard people turn the 200 million man army into demon people...

[Gypsy]

Whatever you believe, it's really an interesting study. Much like creationism and the rapture, this is an aspect of the Bible that people take very diversified directions on.

This is a fascinating topic to read about and investigate (not to be confused with obsessing over) but EireWolf summed it up nicely:

Does it matter to our salvation? I doubt it.

[Kaligraphic]

Interesting note: Pliny the Elder (Roman Historian) wrote of the existance of 10-foot tall ancient corpses. (of course, he also wrote of a race of men without mouths, who lived by smelling flowers, so - take this cum grano salis (with a grain of salt))

It's possible that the Romans had found the remains of some of the Nephilim. Of course, it's also possible that he was simply exaggerating or misinformed. Still, it's interesting to know.

[Technomancer]

Interesting note: Pliny the Elder (Roman Historian) wrote of the existance of 10-foot tall ancient corpses. (of course, he also wrote of a race of men without mouths, who lived by smelling flowers, so - take this cum grano salis (with a grain of salt))

It's possible that the Romans had found the remains of some of the Nephilim.

Probably not, Pliny's accounts are based mostly on Greek descriptions of "giant" bones supposedly found in some localities. However, it turns out that these particular places also correspond to areas rich in fossils of prehistoric elephants/mammoths. One can put these bones together to create a monstrous sort of giant that looks mostly humanoid. There's a very good discussion of this issue in Adrienne Mayor's book "The First Fossil Hunters: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times ".

[Kaligraphic]

Yes, he wrote about them. However, note the disclaimer about the flower-people. (I personally don't think that he was writing about nephilim; I just thought it was an interesting note)

[Momus]

I believe that people earlier on in human history were more attune to the physical affects of spiritual beings, because they were closer to God in geneology, but that it is quite possible that demons took physical form, as can holy angels.

[Lady Arianrod]

This is all very interesting... So, there were some beings that weren't fully human? They were half demon? Wow! That's both unsettling and intersting that demons were able to take human forms and produce offspring. I'll have to look up more on this topic ^___^

[valdrianth]

I've definately heard of the story behind these creatures. Vague as they are.
I have taken an interest in them and I'm working on a story to soon be manga based on this vague story. If the Nephilim truely did exist I believe that their race was detroyed by the Great Flood for I don't believe any of Noah's family had angel "blood" in them.
For when your really think about, angels really don't have a sex, and it would be a little odd for a sexless being to procreate.

[Heart of Sword]

However, it says that the Nephilim were "sons" of God, and that they were "on Earth in those days and in days afterward." And Gabriel the angel was a male as far as I can remember, but that might not be so...huh.

[CDLviking]

Sons of God does not necessarily mean angels though, in the Hebrew world it was very often a salutation for a man considered to be just.

[valdrianth]

I have an idea. When we all get to heaven, we can ask God.

[EireWolf]

I like that idea.

[Lady Arianrod]

yay! *dreams about Heaven*

[Heart of Sword]

But if they were just humans, then I don't think they would have been giants.

I'll ask God when I get to heaven! If I remember, that is. I think I should...

[Zero One]

yeah I've been curious about this for a while but never checked much into it, I just knew somethin bout demon angels=giants and goliath was supposedly one, so now that i've been reminded of this I think I'll check it out more.

[Hephzibah]

A footnote in my Bible said that another possible explanation was that the "Sons of God" were descendants from Seth and his brethren, while the 'daughters of man' were from Cain.

[CDLviking]

That's basically been my stance. It also explains why there could be Nephilim after the flood since one of the wives of Noah's sons was a descendant of Cain.

[Yeshua-Knight]

in reference to the nephilim this is how i understood them to be
either one of two things: either the men who had followed God throughout their lives married women who did not, or that fallen angels had physical relations with human women, either way, it ain't right, and God has taken care of it, even if, just if nephilim still existed today, God will always be stronger, just remember what happened to Goliath when he came against God through David,

(swing...swing...swing....SMACK!!! BOOM!!!)

if you want to look at other references aside from the scriptures that mention the nephilim, there is a book called the book of enoch, i don't know how my trust you can put into it though 'cus it's not the bible that there are those that would like to pollute our vision of the scriptures with half-truths and other spiritual poison, in any case, it does bring up the nephilim, it also describes how the nephilim are destroyed

[Anna Mae]

Hmm... interesting. Where might this book be found?

[CDLviking]

I know that some book stores sell collections of Judeo-Christian apocrypha. Just be forewarned that there is a good reason that some of those books didn't make it into the canon (Jewish, protestant, or Catholic).

[Anna Mae]

Okay.

[Doubleshadow]

http://www.bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/142/eVerseID/142/version/kjv/opt/comm/RTD/cgg

Here's a link on the topic.

[Momus]

It's not so much that the apogripha is bad, but it touches on some touchy stuff, especially around the times that the Bible was being translated into German, French, English, and others. Macabees isn't trying to pollute anyone's mind, but it is very specific about the love that goes on between a married man and woman...

[Zarn Ishtare]

here is an answer, given to me by my pentateuch proffesor, a man with a wise opinion of the subject.

After Cain murdered Abel, and Seth was born, there where to branches of the family. there was Cain's, who were without God and were cursed, and Seths, who were with God and blessed. these are the "Sons of God" and Cain's children are the "Daughters of Man". Heres where I agree...sorta, with lightbringer. the Son's of God intermarried with the daughters of man. the Servants of God married the Servants of Satan. Good men married evil women. this is actually a time honored tactic of Satan's, causing Good people to marry Evil ones, as he did with the israelites when they wondered the wilderness and stayed in moab. the righteous ones were eventually bred out of the entire earth, save Noah and his own. Now, every person down from adam save Methusaleh died younger and younger, becuase their pure dna became muddier and muddier with the effects of sin. God created man perfect, but when he fell, he could not live forever, so he would grow old and die. Sin did not just have a spiritual effect on this world, it had a physical one too. this quickened becuase of the inbreeding of the two sides. The Nephilim werewere result Mutation, of corrupted DNA. There are still nephilem to this day, but they seem to have changed from what it seems they used to be. THis is the somewhat muddled version of what my proffesor believes, and I have to agree with him.

[Yeshua-Knight]

one must always be vigilant when exposing yourself to something that posses as something even close to the scriptures, even by taking the time to discuss the nephilim to an extent we have become distracted by the idea of something freaky actually existing, it doesn't really matter if they do, if they did, or whatever, God is in control, has been in control and will forever be in control

'nuff said