i've been thinking

[Nia-chan]

i was reading a book in the time where people wanted sons and they were all 'boo hoo hoo' if they had a daughter and i was wondering... what if god made eve before adam? would roles be switched and they would have things like men's rights? or would it be the same?

[true_noir_chloe]

I could never try to guess, since that's NOT how God made it. That might be an interesting idea for a fantasy (total fantasy) novel.

Anyways, God does everything for a reason, so that's why man came first. Women came out of his rib, or the heart area. In the home the man is the head and the woman is the heart of the home. Men are commonly bigger than women in every way, as well. You couldn't pull a larger type person out of a smaller type person. When you see a man and woman together it makes perfect sense.

For the man to take the woman's place I think the man would have to take her size and her feminine quality, and then you're back to it being a man and woman. Or it could just be a really ugly little man and a big hairy woman. Eww, that would be gross.

I'm positive He made it the way it was for a reason.

[Azier the Swordsman]

Reminds me of an episode of Sliders I once saw...

(And if anyone remembers that particular episode it probably wasn't too far from what may have turned out)

Remember, Eve was created SECOND for the purpose of being a COMPANION and HELPER to Adam. However, because of this, many cultures have for centuries regarded women as 'inferior'.

Logically, if MAN had been the ones to be created SECOND, then I would have to say it would have been very likely men could have been considered 'inferior'.

Actually, they are extremely rare, but there ARE actually some cultures that do exist that consider men to be inferior.

I personally figure that we have all been made in the image of God, so it really doesn't matter, and it's even good for women to stand up for themselves at times.

[Nia-chan]

just one of those 'what if' questions (what if pigs really did fly? if animals could talk, would they have accents?)

[desperado]

true_noir_chloe and azier the swordsman are correct. i agree totally with chloe. there is specific evidence of God making adam first. i dont think there is any possible way of it being different

[Mr. SmartyPants]

theoretically, pigs can fly!

hehe nia-chan, its good to think these questions ^_^

its good to think a lot

[Swordguy]

it would probly basicly idetical you have to remeber yout bacicly jsut swiching around the roles but then it would have been how it has allways been so it would most likly end up being bacicly the ame senerio

[LightUpTheDark]

It's something interesting to think about I suppose, but I'm going to echo Chloe here too. We were created the way we were for a reason. God's a big God. He knew what he was doing. There's nothing wrong in wondering why certain things are the way they are or asking questions, but I think there ARE people in the world who take things to the extreme in questioning God. They get to point where they think THEY could do a better job than God. They might as well just say they want to be God, because in essence, that's what they're saying. I'm not accusing you of this, I'm just saying, so please don't misunderstand.

[Zane]

Well of course man had to be made first.... God knew that if he made ladies first we, men *grunt*, would feel really useless, and pathetic with lovely ladies not needing our protection and help
Thats obviously why, cause you ladies are already so much better than us in most things.

[SwordSkill]

Actually, they are extremely rare, but there ARE actually some cultures that do exist that consider men to be inferior.

There is a certain tribe in China that's very matriarchal and they do find men inferior until now. I can't remember the name of the tribe; I think I once discussed it here, when I was still new to CAA and there was a thread about Shampoo from Ranma, whose tribe worked on a similar principle.

Anyway, it's quite a phenomenon, considering that the Chinese culture is one of the most notorious when it comes to male chauvinism. Thankfully, that chauvinism has diluted quite considerably in both sides of my family. My father used to say that the only good thing that came out of China's shift to Communism was that it advocated the equality of rights for both sexes.

[cbwing0]

The underlying question is, are gender roles arbitrary or innate? In other words, are the roles of men and women simply social constructs, or are they actually a part of our nature?

true_noir_chloe did a good job explaining some of the possibly reasons why the roles of men and women are in some sense necessarily determined. I don't really have anything to add at the moment, since I have never thought about the issue in those terms .

Many people would like to believe that gender roles are arbitrary, because that would justify the sins in which they indulge. That is one of the primary reasons why people choose to disagree with the truth of the Bible and Christianity.

[RefractedAhav]

One thing I like about ancient Celtic society was that they treated men and women as equals. I am not saying I liked every thing about the celts, but that is one thing I do like about them. I belive that God created Man and Woman as equal but with different roles. I do however belive that the husband should help raise the children and not just be the "bread winner". I also belive that the husband should give the wife a day off every now and then. I also belive that men and women should treat each other with equal respect and that both genders are entitled to the same rights.

[termyt]

Chances are, all other things being equal, our gender roles would be roughly similar today regardless of the order of creation. Men have a dominate role because of our relative size and strength. These make it more likely that men would be in the role of hunter, protector, enforcer, and thus leader of a society. That is the biggest reason, IMHO, for our gender role being as it is today - it has little to do with genetics apart from our instincts to fight, protect, and flee. Female soldiers would just have too much of a handicap against male ones.

All that said, I also believe gender bias is a relatively new phenomenon, and it has both pro's and con's. In the past, women were treasured and protected above all else. Their presence was both required and appreciated, so the men defended them. That's a very sexist point of view today, but it was a way of life for less complex societies which needed to constantly assert their rights against other neighboring societies. This actually places a higher value on women then men in at least one aspect of society. Excluding women from leadership, or even having a voice, in society started because of their lack of experience dealing with external affairs such as diplomacy and developed over centuries of viewing them as needing protection and shelter from the outside world. Even still, antiquity is full of stories of women who broke out of this mold and lived very different lives with out feeling the full brunt of society’s displeasure.

Our society is big enough and complex enough and our inventions are clever enough that the differences between the sexes are no longer critical in determining our job classes. Women can do just about anything that was traditionally only feasible for men to do so it is only right to allow both sexes equal access to the society, but culture resists all change even when it is good and necessary. Most, if not all, of the New Testament Biblical references to gender roles are written as either illustrations to prove a different point entirely because gender roles were well defined and less likely to be challenged) or as examples of how we are to behave and treat one another, not as doctrine on how families and societies must be ordered.

[Nia-chan]

lots of long and interesting replies

i hope this isn't gravedigging, but suppose god had made woman first... do you think jesus would have been a female?