The "Nephilim"

[Heart of Sword]

...

Alright, I'm at the library so I decided to post something. I was reading the Bible the other day and I noticed something about "the sons of God" falling in love with the "daughters of men" and that the result were the Nephilim. So I looked into "sons of God" and found that the literal translation was "fallen angels", or basically, demons. Soooo...are the Nephilim angel-human-people or something? 'Cause it's really freaking me out...



Hey! Maybe Inuyasha existed! (that was a joke...)

[Technomancer]

Leaving aside theological issues, what's explicitly said in the Bible is fairly little. Further information about the story can be found in the OT apocryphal "Book of Jubliees". An excellent discussion of the story can also be found in Jeffery Buton Russell's "Lucifer", which examines ancient Hebrew and classical notions of evil.

My own opinion of course, is that the story should be read as more mythological than historical, and that it is related to the much older non-biblical mythologies of the ancient Hebrew or pre-Hebrew peoples.

[Godly Paladin]

They are believed to be the giants. (Like Goliath) The result of demon-human breeding.

[Godly Paladin]

I also want to add that I don't believe they exist anymore. Modern day giants are the result of genetic abnormalities.

[Lochaber Axe]

First: Use edit next time and don't make an extra post.

Second: There are no "modern day giants", well at least in the context you're refering to. Goliath was around eight to ten feet tall and a good somewhere of a meter thick, and he might have been bigger too. The tallest man was only seven feet tall (also most men of such height are very thin). There is a big difference.

I am in agreement about the Nephilim being giants, for that is what I have heard.

[bakura_fan]

This is a first for me. I've never heard of such things.... O_O I'm very confused right now....

[Whitephoenix]

There's a novel by the title "Nephilim" that has some info on them, but the story in itself is rather far-fetched and I lost interest in it about 3/4 of the way through.

[Godly Paladin]

To Lochaber: Yes, I realized after I posted I should have edited, but I didn't bother once it was done. Also, I realize that modern day giants are not as tall as Goliath...I wasn't referring to 10 feet.

[Lochaber Axe]

Sigh...

Another case of myself being too blunt. Sometimes I think I should just clamp my mouth shut and sit in a corner.

I have no tact.

[Madeline]

My mom looked into this a while ago...and found little.
Personally, I believe that they were just what the Bible says...half angel, half human, and mighty warriors. That's all I really need to know. ^_^

[CDLviking]

I interpret "the sons of God" to be the descendants of Seth, and "the daughters of men" to be the descendants of Cain. Without geting to theological, angels are spirits and unable to reproduce.

[Raiden no Kishi]

But they can assume physical form...

Rai

[Fsiphskilm]

*steps in fo

[Lightbringer]

Nephilum, i believe were real at one point, but they were killed off in the flood. So we dont really need to worry about them anymore.

[Sephiroth]

"Nephilum, i believe were real at one point, but they were killed off in the flood. So we dont really need to worry about them anymore." Lightbringer // Aaron

Theres only one problem with that reasoning, being that there are nephilim in the bible post-flood, they first appear in Genesis, but are present in Cannan when Joshua and Caleb, they discovered the amelakites, who were decscendants of giants, and goliath who was also from nephilim descent

[Lightbringer]

theres no flaw, the only people to survive the flood were Noah and his family. the Nephilum didn't survive, cause when God says he's going to kill something it dies.

"Modern day" giants were also larger then 7 feet tall. There was a guy a little while back i saw on the history channel the other day that was like 8 and ahalf or something like that. Giantism is a genetic disorder, as is the extra finger they all had, but Inbreeding was also a pretty prominent practice back then as well. People kept the genes all in the tribe or group so after a while giantism can be bred into a people. **Edit** also the more the same genes are used over and over, aka inbreeding the chances of genetic abnormality increase**Edit**

Thats the only explanation that fits for them, cause like i said. The Word says everything was destroyed except Noah, his familly and the animals on the arc. Its said plainly so. God killed them, thats all.

[SwordSkill]

About the Nephilim disappearing after the Flood...Madeleine L'engle actually wrote about that in her children's book Many Waters in a pre-Ark Noah story. After that, I found angels quite fascinating. It's not meant to be taken historically, of course, but the treatment is interesting.

[EireWolf]

Actually, Nephilim do show up after the Flood. When Moses sent spies into the land of Canaan, they reported, "All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them." (Numbers 13:32b-33) So, at the very least, descendants of the Nephilim were believed to exist post-Flood.

As for what they were, God only knows for sure.

Many Waters was indeed a fascinating book, and Madeleine L'Engle is one of my favorite authors.

[skynes]

The Bible says the Nephilim were great warriors, giants and were in the legends of old (it makes me think of things like Hercules and other Demi-god stories). Were the Nephilim just totally human then they would be no different from other humans and have no special qualities.

The flood did kill all human life, but Nephilim aren't totally human, it's possible that some were more demon than human and vice versa and were thus immune to drowning. I don't know though. It's an interesting idea to discuss just don't go making any doctrines around it. Keep it to ideas and not beliefs

Ideas can be changed without a problem and no argument, ppl kill over beliefs.

[Lightbringer]

I dont think it ever said that nephilem giants and the children of Anak of cannan were the same , or evan related. The spys were being defeatus, they weren't talking about people who were litterally 200 times there size.

Another fact is the Hebrew people , and most people from that area in the world aren't known for there outstanding hight and mass. Of coarse there are the normal fluxuations from generation to generation but thats beside the point.

The people of Cannan were more then likely large like.... oh the general population of the norse countrys like the vikeings. Most were pretty tall and stocky. You have a smaller person and a larger person, there you have giants.

Im sure alot of people are thinking, the evidence is right there, and you're right. To think that God couldn't kill nephilum is kind of.... well i wont bother saying it. Says everything but Noah , his family, and the animals he took with him on the ark died. Since i know God cannot lie, and i know that the Bible is the liveing word of God, and that it says very plainly so simple that nobody could make it say otherwise with flowery words ,everything but those specified died, its enough for me, evan if i like the idea of something else happening.

[Technomancer]

Another fact is the Hebrew people , and most people from that area in the world aren't known for there outstanding hight and mass. Of coarse there are the normal fluxuations from generation to generation but thats beside the point.

The people of Cannan were more then likely large like.... oh the general population of the norse countrys like the vikeings. Most were pretty tall and stocky. You have a smaller person and a larger person, there you have giants.

Not really, the people of Canaan were closely related to the ancient Hebrews; both groups are likely to have emerged from a common root culture of ancient Semites. We know from archaeology that both the Canaanite language and ancient Hebrew were very similar, and that they used similar literary forms in their writing. Physically, of course there is nothing to distinguish the two groups.

[Lightbringer]

ok so if they are the same people then how are one group giants? I refure to my previous post about genetic abnormalitys.

[Technomancer]

There is no physical evidence of a race of giants ever having lived in the ancient Levant. Genetic abnormalities of course may happen to specific individuals. Goliath himself may have been such an individual, or simply tall compared to his compatriots (average height back then was quite a bit shorter than what it is now). However, this says nothing about the Canaanites themselves, since such indivduals occur in every population.

[Lightbringer]

then how are whole familys explained? or evan large populations of people like the before mentioned vikeings.

Its true that people didn't grow as large as they do now for the most part, because of diet. If that land of cannan was so rich in neutrient enriched food, as it would sugest with the food stuff that was brought back by the spys, Logic would say they ate much better and were larger. But again, Its still more then reasonable that both theorys are correct.

Inbred giantism and Diet.

[Genma]

Gen. 6:4 concludes that the Nephilim were "the heroes of old, men of renown." Perhaps these Nephilim whether half-demon/half-human or genetic abnormalities due to inbreeding or whatever. It fascinates me to think that these were the Hercules, Gilgemesh, perhaps even Nordic and Olympian gods.

On a side note Gen. 6:4 says "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward..." This suggests that somehow that the Nephilim returned after the flood. Now I am of the opinion that nothing apart from Noah, his family and the animals on the ark survived the flood but that does not rule out the Nephilim returning the same way they originally appeared: the sons "of God went to the daughters of men."

Needless to say although this discussion is fun and interesting, it has nothing to do with salvation, so if you are frustrated by the conflicting opinions please remember that in the end this doesn't matter. It is just one of those kernels of information that God allowed to be written down partially to show the wickedness of the world but I think also for occasions such as these when believers can come together and discuss and fantisize about the meaning of these side stories.

[Technomancer]

then how are whole familys explained? or evan large populations of people like the before mentioned vikeings.

Its true that people didn't grow as large as they do now for the most part, because of diet. If that land of cannan was so rich in neutrient enriched food, as it would sugest with the food stuff that was brought back by the spys, Logic would say they ate much better and were larger. But again, Its still more then reasonable that both theorys are correct.

Inbred giantism and Diet.

You missed my point. Yes, some populations are taller than others due to diet and genetics, however, this does not support the idea of "giants" unless one gives considerable room for literary hyperbole (which may very well have been the case). While from time to time there may have been anomalously tall individuals such as Goliath, but this does not indicate that the population was taller than average in comparison to other nearby peoples. It should also be noted that there is no mention of the Canaanites being especially tall either in their own records, or in those of their contemporaries (Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Anatolian, etc).

Before looking for explanations as to why the Canaanites were so tall, we should first establish whether they actually were particularly tall.

[Lightbringer]

well why in the world would they say how especially tall they were? if they were tall as a people then it would have been average to them. They wouldn't have called them giants if they weren't at least a good deal taller then the Hebrew of the time, since there are no lies in the Bible, then I dont see how we're haveing this part of the discussion. The WERE big, in some manner of speaking. Theres no need for proof on there hight, like there would really be an acurate way of telling scientifically today anyway

[Genma]

to a person lacking faith a 3 foot gap in the sidewalk can look like the grand canyon. The 10 spies that reported giants lacked the faith in God's plan for the Israelites. The Canaanites may have been taller than the Hebrews, but the feeling I get from their report is a fear of war with a larger well established nation (or city-state if you rather). This well established persence gives them the figurative giant-like appearance. I am not saying that they weren't tall just airing other possibilities.

[Kisa]

Hmm interesting thread, I have always wondered myself, but I think they are just fallen angels and human as well . . . the Bible doesn't go further, so it means its not too important to us.

[EireWolf]

I dont think it ever said that nephilem giants and the children of Anak of cannan were the same , or evan related. The spys were being defeatus, they weren't talking about people who were litterally 200 times there size.

Of course it never said they were 200 times their size... all it said was:

"All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them." (Numbers 13:32b-33)

The parenthetical notation is not mine-- it's right there in the Bible. Probably the spies were exaggerating about the "grasshopper" thing... In any case, they felt very small next to these Canaanites.

What does it mean that descendants of the Nephilim were around after the Flood? I dunno. Does it matter to our salvation? I doubt it.