Manga ink pens

[Esoteric]

Hey there, I'm a N00b around here, but I've been drawing for years.
I like working with ink, but I have difficulty getting the thin, super crisp lines such as one finds in manga. I try cleaning stuff up in the computer, but it would be so much easier if the lines were clean on paper. What's the trick? Special pens? Special paper? Years of practice? input anybody?

[ShiroiHikari]

I think traditionally, manga-ka use a certain kind of pen...those...kind with the metal tips, if you know what I mean. anybody else got any other tips?

[olorc]

I think traditionally, manga-ka use a certain kind of pen...those...kind with the metal tips

Ya those, but if you don't want to get those, what works for me is the faber-cassell pens, they come in lots of colors and sizes. Like brush (my fav ) thin (which may be what you're after ) large. Stuff like that. I don't really use my thin that much but that is just personal preference.

[Esoteric]

Metal tips? Are we talking crowquill or technical pens?

Are the faber-cassell pens the technical kind where you reload ink, or are they like sakura brand(use and toss)?

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm not sure what the pens are actually called, but they're basically a wooden body and a metal tip that has to be replaced now and again, and you have to dip them in ink and stuff. is that what a "crowquill" is?

yeah, one time I found a set of four Faber-Castells at Wal-mart, they were awesome. but now they're running out of ink and Wal-mart doesn't carry them anymore. ; _ ; where are some other places I can get them?

also, if you want a really fine point, there's this pen called Sakura Micron (I think). it's actually a scrapbooking pen, but the tip was so fine that it worked well for small details and stuff.

[Psycho Ann]

For artwork, to my knowledge, they use a variety of G-pens (it's what they're called) which is basically a dip pen. For techincal lines most of them use Rotring brand of techincal pens with drafters prefer (I hate these, I broke way too many 0.05 which are way too expensive for me...).

As for getting the crisp lines, I had the honor of getting to ask a pro who can get crisper lines than most the mangaka and the answer is, yep: years of practice.

As long as your hands can get a clean stroke, cheapo pens would still do the trick. Especially if you can practice to the point of getting great line quality....

It would help to let us see just how you draw your lines, maybe it is something that can be remedied by a new set of tools.

[Esoteric]

Hmm, okay, it sounds like I should practice with my crowquill pen then, maybe get a nice one. I can get pretty clean lines if I use a crowquill on hotpress illustration board, but that stuff is expensive (and thick). What sorts of paper do you guys prefer for ink?

I'll have to draw and post something soon for opinions.

[Staci]

http://www.animenation.com/merchandise-manga-art-supplies.html

Anime Nation has a nice selection of Manga related supplies and they're relatively well-priced, I might add. Just thought I'd toss that in for the artists out here. ~_^ Hope it helps!

[Archan]

Personally, I find a normal ball point pen to suffice just fine.

The beauty of the ball point is, it's mainly a pencil version of a pen, you can vary the line weight and stroke, how much or how little ink you want, hence why I personally like to sketch in pen because it trains me to make less mistakes, and it's alos the best subsitute of a pencil when working with ink.

With dip pens and such, they will bleed out when they make contact with the paper. I'll use these pens only if I desire a continuous flow or more fine-art feel so to speak.

to be perfectly technical however, you can never have a perfect crisp line, because the paper surface (All papersurface, even the really high glossy super compressed stuff) is not even, the the ink being a liquid will always flow into whatever crevice it gets. this happens with a good amounf of fountain pens and gel pens. But as Psycho Ann said, it's really gonna take YEARS or practice. High stress on *YEARS*

To get erally fine or crisp thin lines however, ball point is probably your best bet. I know it's no super tool or highly expensive reffrenced manga-ka pen, but you'll find alot of the pros make the best results with the simplest of tools. Also, experiment.

God bless,
Archan

[Psycho Ann]

Yep, it's really hard getting good crisp lines on anything, expecially since the texture and type of paper varies with each pen/ink used. As for inking, I prefer Bristol Board, probably it's better to use something smoother, but since my school demands vellum-coated (for dry media stuff) it's the only one I've experimented with.

And I second the ball-point idea, but I use it for sketching only (I've gone into depth on this in the 'manga artist and writer unite' thread). Since I would prefer something with higher ink flow to get all the darkest darks in more quickly. I actually like the bleed effect, so it depends on your style.

As for illustration board, I've only used cold-press, dunno about ink, but it holds gouche nicely. And yes, it's expensive, I would use it only for higher priced commisions or for important projects.

As for pens I actually use more than any other are Sakura Micron pens. Relatively cheap and I like the lines and control. Again, I've said enough about this in that other thread I pointed out. Paper, heh, anything not so important I just use regular fotocopy paper. Using more expensive tools don't make me feel any more 'pro'--just 'poor-er'. XD XD

[Esoteric]

Thanks for all the input. Most of the time I do use a ball point pen for sketches. I used Uniball Micro pens, my fav, but now I can't find them anymore. I do believe what I'm lacking is practice controlling my line strokes. Just gotta find a new fav pen and keep practicing!

[Uriah]

Generally I use sakura markers.

One thing that really helps me, draw big, scan it, clean it up as best you can, then shrink it. The mistakes are harder to see this way. So I cheat, pretty much...

[mechana2015]

Actually I dont think anyone here who draws comic pages displays them at full size.... Iheard Fred Galligher of Megatokyo fame draws his comic 2 (out of 4) frames to a page. his comic usually appears to be typical manga sized, so he draws 4x the size of what we see of the final product.

[Mave]

If it helps anyone, I use Sakura micron pens and each of my manga pages fill up a whole A4 size sheet. ^_^

[olorc]

what is a A4 size sheet? Anyone know? I'd be interested to find out so I could look into what to draw my mangas on. thanks

[Esoteric]

According to Photoshop 7, A4 paper is 8.267 in. by 11.693 in. (or roughly 210mm by 297mm)

[olorc]

sw33t, so basically: standard printer paper? or is it special printer paper?

[Psycho Ann]

A4 is pretty standarized size for comic making (at least in Indo last I heard) since its demensions are closer to the final print. And you should be able to easier get A4 paper from the local store since it's a fotocopy paper like letter or legal.

I personally do online stuff, so if I do ever get my stuff printed it's gonna be in a weird size, and draw my comics on a letter fotocopy paper with 0.5 inch of bleed and 0.25 inch of trim. The final image would then be letter-sized with 0.5 inch taken off from all sides. It's pretty small, but I find I work faster on small areas and IT SAVES INK~!!! *does the poor artist dance*

Really not recommended if you have a more detailed style. Unless you *like* using the 0.05 sized Micron for 50% of the inking process XD

[Mave]

Ah Ann, that's good to hear coz I'm comfortable working with A4 size papers. XD

I don't really have a preference of what type of paper it is. I pick off whatever's available at the lab/office (for printing/photocopying) hehe <---poor graduate student. I forgot the significance of this whole "acid free" thing, though.

I use the 0.3 tipped Sakura pen the most. I think I use the 0.5 tip for close-ups and 0.1 for shades. (Ann, what?? There are more tip sizes available? I only have 3 tips!)

Took a pic of my manga pages.....it may help someone get an idea of what I'm doing, which isn't much but.....

[mechana2015]

Oooh good the people I was hoping would post on this did! I have seen the 0.005 pens Mave, in my college bookstore, in the drafting section.

I'm planning on using a huge scale for mine or at least test out a larger scalethough I do draw pages in 8 1/2 x 11 But i have the feeling I need to scale up seeing that I'm a detail freak... I'd have started with a larger size initially, but my scanner only fits A4... oh well! I'm trying to find heavier paper to draw on as well, and 30# is seeming to be my best bet, if I could find some.
I have used Sakura's in the past, but havn't gotten one in about 1/2 a year due to difficulty finding them. I'm currently using Pilot Precise V7 Fine and Extra Fine Roller Ball for inking, and any cheap dark black ink pen for black washes.

[olorc]

actually that pic was more help to me then anything else I've really heard here yet...thanks

[Gypsy]

I also use Sakura pens, and I usually draw on card stock. Less smudge, less bleed, and a little tougher than your average bear ... um ... paper.

[Psycho Ann]

Yeah Mave, there's 0.05, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5, and 0.8 with the addition of the Sakura micron brush pen.You don't really need 0.2, but for some reason mine comes out thinner than 0.1 XD XD

[Little T-chan]

Use Sakura Micron pens!!!! I lubb mine. ^^ But don't know about the paper. I use regular computer paper.

[c.t.,girl]

i may not be much help but i first use #2 pencils and then a gel pen(preferably black)!