upsided down cross blasphemous?

[Belgarath]

Why is it blasphemous? It just doesn't make sense to me seeing as how Peter was crucified upside down.

[Heart of Sword]

I think about that a lot, too. Actually it just crossed my mind again this morning. I guess it's because it's worn to show disrespect for Jesus or something.

[Golden_Griff]

I think about that a lot, too. Actually it just crossed my mind again this morning. I guess it's because it's worn to show disrespect for Jesus or something.

I'm not sure myself but I think what Hearty said could be the reason.

[Lehn]

Shoot me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the satanic sign for Jesus ‘failing’…?

[Belgarath]

I know that it's used to show disrespect but even then the gesture doesn't make sense.

[Heart of Sword]

Off Topic: Please, please, please don't call me Hearty. x_< It brings back bad memories...

Lehn, you're probably right.

[Lehn]

*googles it*

"Upside Down Cross - Symbolizes mockery and rejection of Jesus and is used as a symbol of evil. Necklaces are worn by many satanist's, as is the the inverted pentagram."

[cbwing0]

Two things:

1.The account of Peter's death may or may not be true, as it is not part of inspired scripture. As I recall, Peter chose to be crucified upside down, because he did not consider himself to be equal with Christ.

2.The inverted cross is not in itself blasphemous, but it is used by satanic groups. For that reason it is not something that we should support. Think about it this way: would you wear a pentagram or goat's head?

[Momus]

Like cbwing said, it's not so much the actual thing as a symbol. Peter did it in respect and humility, but a Satanist or some one who uses for a protest etc., is using it for mockery or disrespect. It's more who and how they use it.

[Yojimbo]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

[Technomancer]

The upside down cross (St. Peter's cross) is a very old symbol of the papacy, and has nothing to do with Satanism. Some Satanists do use the inverted crucifix however as a mockery of Christ's sacrifice. As cbwing said it's how a symbol is used and by whom, that determines how respectful it is.

[Stephen]

One also has to take into consideration what most people think somthing means. I doubt explaining to a nonbeliver that your wearing an old Papacy cross....would help your witness. Most people associate an upside down cross or crucifx to be satanism.

[Haibane Shadsie]

Yeah.. upside down crosses are supposed to be satanic disrespect symbols... I guess, unless you are wearing an old St. Peter's cross.

Now.. cbwing said something about a goat's head? Who says I wouldn't wear a goat's head? Hey, I happen to like goats! They're cool animals! I like animals... I've worn necklaces and earrings in the shape of cats... I'd wear things like that in the shape of dogs, zebras, lions, maybe even goats or ibexes (wild goats). In fact, I think it would be neat to find a necklace or something with an ibex on it. I love their really LONG curved horns. Neat wild animals, they are.

I DO wear animal skulls around my neck. Seriously! I... have a hobby of painting on animal bones. This was born of where I live - Arizona. It's pretty common to see cow and steer skulls painted and neat stuff done to them. I go beyond this - I do calf skulls, shoulderblades, coytoe skulls, jawbones, crosses I make out of legbones - lots of stuff. Some people find my work creepy. Many people love it.

I'd love to get a goat skull to paint. Now, my brother in law's friend had one, but he wanted demons and stuff painted on it - I don't want to do that. Un-uh. I draw the line at that. I want a goat skull of my very own (with horns included) to paint... things like winding flowers, landscapes, and happy abstract designs on!

As for the bones I wear around my neck - I had a chicken skull (which I stepped on and crushed by accident, I am sad), and a rabbit skull that I wear. I painted them and strung them on chains specifically for that purpose.

Many people find bones and skulls creepy - with the obvious association with death. I... well, I love them. I see them as natural sculpture - God'd scuplture - the essential structure of a creature. Also, it is a reminder that death is the fate of us all, you know? I'm comfortable with it. (well, I'm going to Heaven, so why not be comfortable with it and accepting of it?)

---

My boyfriend bought me a sword at Otakon, and it has the image of a ram's skull on it as part of the design. I don't see it as "evil," I see it as neat-looking.


I was thinking of making an experimental post a "What would you do/think if you saw this type of person walking down the street?"

A young woman dressed in black with a rabbit skull on a chain around her neck?

Would you be frightened of her? Would you assume her to be a satanist or a Wiccan or some kind of terrible, anti-Christian sinner?

My friend, that person is me - and I am a Christian!

- be not quick to judge by appereances, my friends, for apperances are deceitful, and quick, false judgement is easy.

[Fsiphskilm]

It's Rebeliou

[cbwing0]

Would you be frightened of her? Would you assume her to be a satanist or a Wiccan or some kind of terrible, anti-Christian sinner?

My friend, that person is me - and I am a Christian!

- be not quick to judge by appereances, my friends, for apperances are deceitful, and quick, false judgement is easy.

Perhaps you should read the comments in the thread entitled "Christian Goths." They are talking about exactly the same thing (i.e. appearance vs. reality).

Whether or not you would be comfortable wearing a goat's head, it is a symbol used by satanic groups. Of course this does not apply to any goat's head, but it does apply to those that look like this:



Would you feel comfortable wearing one of those?

[Bobtheduck]

Peter's crucifixion may not be canon, but I see no reason to doubt church history. It is true, when most people wear upside down crosses, they do it as a mockery to Jesus, or more accurately, to the Christian religion. A lot of good or, shall we say, neutral symbols have been used for bad things... A cross, an upside down cross, a star of david, a pentagram, snakes (yes, snakes are neutral... Look at Exodus... I am of the camp that thinks that genesis 3 was not a permanent curse, but a messianic prophecy and a warning), goats, whatever... The image we portray is important if it affects our witness... Now, how often does that happen? I don't know... It depends on time, place, and what symbol or whatever you displaying...

The goat is a symbol in the bible (New testament, anyhow) of those who do not belong to God. Goats are much harder to control than sheep. Much harder to domesticate. I am guessing that to a satanist, who views Christians (somewhat accurately) as "sheep", the great thing to be opposing to that is the more strong willed goat. I know this goes back centuries before Anton Levey, but that is a POSSIBLE modern point to the Goathead, especially since the majority of Satanists don't believe in any sort of deity or spiritual figure.

666 is honestly just used because it scares people... . 666 is the number of man, and the mark of the Beast which will keep you out of heaven. Christian influenced cultures have associated 666 with evil even among those who aren't Christians. It has been associated with evil, with death, with hell, and with satan but almost NEVER with what it truely is, which is the number of MAN. It represents a defication of man, putting man in a place so godlike that he doesn't need God anymore... In other words, the Humanist movement, or more simply, human nature.

It is only in context that these things are evil, and out of that context an upside down cross is nothing special, a goat is just an animal, and 666 is just a number... (though, I am still sort of afraid of the number 6... Kinda carried over from when I was a kid... )

[cbwing0]

It is only in context that these things are evil, and out of that context an upside down cross is nothing special, a goat is just an animal, and 666 is just a number... (though, I am still sort of afraid of the number 6... Kinda carried over from when I was a kid... )

Yes, but that context happens to be the society in which we live. I suppose you could try to "Christianize" all of the symbols used by Satanists; but, at this point in time the upside down cross, 666, and goat's head are commonly recognized symbols of the satanic movement. If you were to wear one of these symbols, I seriously doubt that the first thing to enter the average nonbeliever's (or Christian's mind, for that matter) mind would be "Gee, that's a Christian making an insightful fashion statement." In fact, it would seriously hurt your witness. Unfortunately, you cannot change these perceptions simply by personal fiat of your "uniqueness."

[Yojimbo]

Peter's crucifixion may not be canon, but I see no reason to doubt church history. It is true, when most people wear upside down crosses, they do it as a mockery to Jesus, or more accurately, to the Christian religion. A lot of good or, shall we say, neutral symbols have been used for bad things... A cross, an upside down cross, a star of david, a pentagram, snakes (yes, snakes are neutral... Look at Exodus... I am of the camp that thinks that genesis 3 was not a permanent curse, but a messianic prophecy and a warning), goats, whatever... The image we portray is important if it affects our witness... Now, how often does that happen? I don't know... It depends on time, place, and what symbol or whatever you displaying...

Like Bob said a ton of neutral symbols have been used in history by evil people to confuse and turn people away from God. For example the Swastika was actually the universal symbol for peace around the world. They have found this symbol all around the world dating back as far as 315 B.C. in China. It's 4 conjoined L's stand for Luck, Light, Live, and Life. Since the Nazi party corrupted the symbol it will never be seen in the same light again. People associate the Swastika with Nazi's and inverted crosses with Satanism because they both have been perverted.

[bakura_fan]

I've never heard of any of these symbols before, cept the Nazi symbol....

[Golden_Griff]

[Quote=cbwing0] Whether or not you would be comfortable wearing a goat's head, it is a symbol used by satanic groups. Of course this does not apply to any goat's head, but it does apply to those that look like this:

...

Would you feel comfortable wearing one of those?[/QUOTE]

Yikes, I certainly would not. I knew that goats were the opposite of sheep as some sort of symbol used to represent those that don't follow God. But I didn't think it was an icon in occult groups

[Grumpy]

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

[Belgarath]

Thanks guys.

[c-girl]

the picture that cbwing0 showed with the wierd looking symbol on it. had the devil's number.... 666!!! MEEEP! >.< Scaaaarryyy..... I wonder why it's called the devil's number anyway.

[Heart of Sword]

*tramples the 666 goat necklace*

[Swordguy]

I wonder why it's called the devil's number anyway.

it is from the book of Revelation 13:16-18
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666

[Haibane Shadsie]

No, I would never wear a goat's head like that. That's a very disrespectful symbol.

It is "the Goat raising his horns against Heaven." - I learned that from "The X-Files" hehehe. It was an episode about this plastic surgeon making sacrifices to Satan to stay eternally young while this white (Wicca) witch was trying to stop him... she got killed, the plastic surgeon got away, and Mulder and Scully were left to wonder about the whole thing.

Upside-down pentagrams are very disrespectful to Wiccans, too... from the few Wiccans that I have known. The right side up pentagram is a kind of power and balance symbol - the perfection of nature or something like that, and upside down pentagrams are mocking of this and also the "Goat raising his horns against Heaven" thing.

As for actual, living goats - I'm still going to love them. I worked at a zoo once, in the petting zoo. I've never been a shepherd of sheep, but goats, indeed, are hard to control. They are very smart and are stubborn. I had a hard time whenever zoo visitors would leave the gates open, herding the goats back in their pen. As far as wearing something with a goat on it - well, if I were go to go for a necklace, it would be a cute little full body of a goat, or a profile or something.

I just get really "URK!" when people get onto (particularly animal) symbols - because of my love of animals and strong belief that no animal is evil. God created them all.

I mean... I used to go to the Kjos Ministries site (more crackheadded than Jack Chick) and read their rants against "Pokemon" and stuff - a lot of why "Pokeman is teh ebil!" was because certain pokemon look like certain animals (isn't that the POINT? They're superpowered animals!)... and "associations with these animals are evil." Which, well... is a load of manure.

I was working with goats at the time! If those petting zoo goats were evil, they would have tried to kill me or something! All they wanted was to beg food from zoo visitors and get fat! The goats I worked with were so cute and sweet - interested primarily in food, as are most animals. I've also encountered snakes while out in the desert - poisonous rattlesnakes. Most of the time, they are peaceful and just want to be left alone. (Most snakebites occur becacause people MESS with the snakes, harrass them, try to make "pets" out of them, try to kill them, ect.) I've never been snakebit - when I see a snake out in the desert... I leave it alone, and it leaves me alone. If snakes were really "evil", well, they'd be out to get me, wouldn't they?

I also get uptight when people get hung up on symbols because, well... I'm different. I like skulls, bones... I enjoy wearing all black sometimes... and the art I make - the fact that I paint on bones might lead some closeminded people to assume that I was satanic or something. I really don't like when people make snap judgements based on apperances.

[Momus]

EEEK! That goat head/pentagram was NOT a normal goat skull. THEY LOOK NOTHING ALIKE! 666 comes from an imtation of God. since God is complete(like the number 7 was considered) and he is in three parts, he is 777. Satan, ever the liar and deceiver, tries to act complete by imitating the Trinity(Satan, The Beast, Anti-Christ, I might be wrong on the three, dont mind me), but he is incomplete, therefore, 666. Yojimbo, what language is the Luck, Love, Light, Life from? It seems just a little coincedental that all 4 words would start with the same letters in Chinese. Umm Shadsie, wouldn't an entire rabbit's skull get in the way a bit? Just wondering. It's not so much as snakes are evil as they are cursed with being feared and dangerous. They used to have legs and wings! Being downsized to slithering I'd say is a curse. They're not out to get you, it's just that they are more easily used for evil purposes.

[Yojimbo]

EEEK! That goat head/pentagram was NOT a normal goat skull. THEY LOOK NOTHING ALIKE! 666 comes from an imtation of God. since God is complete(like the number 7 was considered) and he is in three parts, he is 777. Satan, ever the liar and deceiver, tries to act complete by imitating the Trinity(Satan, The Beast, Anti-Christ, I might be wrong on the three, dont mind me), but he is incomplete, therefore, 666. Yojimbo, what language is the Luck, Love, Light, Life from? It seems just a little coincedental that all 4 words would start with the same letters in Chinese. Umm Shadsie, wouldn't an entire rabbit's skull get in the way a bit? Just wondering. It's not so much as snakes are evil as they are cursed with being feared and dangerous. They used to have legs and wings! Being downsized to slithering I'd say is a curse. They're not out to get you, it's just that they are more easily used for evil purposes.

My comment had more to do with the perversion of symbols for evil purposes. I gave the Swastika as my example which used to be the universal symbol of peace for nearly 2500 years. The Mounbuilders, the Mayas, the ancient Chinese, the Romans, all used it as a kind of good luck prosperous life symbol. The words I found out aren't actually related to any one language per se. It's just thats as far back as the Swastika symbol was found in 315 B.C. on Chinese coins. English speaking people just associated the symbol as four connected L's I guess and filled the words in. Obviously it will never be looked in the same way again.

[Straylight]

666 comes from an imtation of God. since God is complete(like the number 7 was considered) and he is in three parts, he is 777. Satan, ever the liar and deceiver, tries to act complete by imitating the Trinity(Satan, The Beast, Anti-Christ, I might be wrong on the three, dont mind me), but he is incomplete, therefore, 666.

There is another theory - when the book of Revelations was originally written, 666 would have been in roman numerals - "vi vi vi". Turns out this is shorthand for the Latin "veni vedi vici" (translation: "I came, I saw, I conquered").

[CDLviking]

There is another theory - when the book of Revelations was originally written, 666 would have been in roman numerals - "vi vi vi". Turns out this is shorthand for the Latin "veni vedi vici" (translation: "I came, I saw, I conquered").

I doubt that very much. It is more likely that the Greek numerals would have been used. The Bible was not compiled into Latin until the late 4th century