Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K General Discussion

[Yamamaya]

So apparently Eldar comes out next months. And there is a hilarious price increase to go with them.

Their Dark Avengers, which were $37.50 for ten per box are now being reduced to 5 per box with a price of $35.

Also, their new huge model, the WraithKnight will be $115.

I am kind of frightened to see what will happen with Tyranid prices once we get a new codex. I wouldn't be surprised to see $100+ monsterous creatures.

[Peanut]

I ran the numbers and I actually don't think he has enough points worth of models to run his Dark Eldar, so both lists are capable of taking down what he could put on the table.

On a slightly depressing side-note, I crunched the numbers for how much it would cost to complete an idea for an extension of that Necron list to bring it up to 2000 points...and it costs only $20 less then what it would cost me to buy and run a FMC Chaos Deamons list...ouch.

As far as pricing goes for the next Tyranid dex, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Any new models might be priced around $70, but the rest of the Monstrous Creatures should stay the same. The most likely place I could see them increasing the price is with the troop choices. If you added a few more biomorphs for both types of Gaunts, you could easily justify a $5 or more increase to their price and since that's what most people are likely going to buy the most of, you would be making way more money then you would with a $100 Monstrous Creature. Though if they decide to bring the Hierophant Bio-Titan over then forget what I said entirely.

[Peanut]

So, I'm continuing to debate between the two lists I posted and I've started looking at the killing potential of each against what my friend can bring with his Chaos Space Marines. Interstingly enough, 15 Termagaunts with Devourers (without preferred Enemy) perform better numberwise then 2 12 man squads of Warriors with Twin Linked weapons at max range. Both average a little over 3 kills per round of fire at max range. The only time the Warriors outshine the Gaunts is when they can get the extra shot for Rapid Fire. I'm leaning more and more towards my Tyranids list with this in mind since while my Necron list does outshoot it, but neither lists shooting is able to take out Plauge Marines (the entirety of my army firing at max range or after moving nets 2-3 kills in comparison) whereas my Genestealers on the charge do way better (5 kills assuming all of them make it into combat). And that's just one unit. That isn't including gaunts with Adrenal Glands and Toxin sacs that jump into combat with them or the Swarmlord or even my Tervigon.

[mechana2015]

I'm actually pretty nervous to see if they up the prices of other stuff to match the Eldar prices. (IE the Riptide jumps to 115 as well.)

[Peanut]

I'm actually pretty nervous to see if they up the prices of other stuff to match the Eldar prices. (IE the Riptide jumps to 115 as well.)

That's possible but I think it is unlikely. There are actually already models priced at that price (Imperial Guard has two) so I don't think they will raise the price of already existent models to that level,..well immediately at least.

[mechana2015]

Well part of my worries are gone. I picked up a pathfinder squad that is missing, by my count, some flying stands, which I have in spades. For 25 bucks after tax.
Also I saw today that the gigantic cost of the Wraith Knight may be because the thing is absolutely massive... mini titan level.

[Peanut]

Well part of my worries are gone. I picked up a pathfinder squad that is missing, by my count, some flying stands, which I have in spades. For 25 bucks after tax.
Also I saw today that the gigantic cost of the Wraith Knight may be because the thing is absolutely massive... mini titan level.

This is the impression I got. The stuff that is already $115 for Guard are super heavy tanks for Apocalypse.

On a non cost related note, I played my friend today. I took the Tyranid list and well...I almost tabled him. We were playing Purge the Alien and his list was the following:

Kharn the Betrayer
9 Warp Talons
2X 10 Khorne Berzerkers
Maulerfiend

The MVP of this game were my Devourer Gaunts, on my first turn they managed to almost wipe out one of his Khorne Berzerker squads (he had one model left). With Enfeeble and Preferred Enemy, they become ridiculously sick. Later in the game, they shot and then assaulted Kharn and the rest of the Khorne Berzerkers with the Swarmlord and wiped them out pretty easily which gave me the win. It should be noted that my dice were way better then they had any right to be. First turn, I spawned 14 gaunts with my Tervigon (I rolled doubles again...) and then threw feel no pain on them. My friend ran up with his Khorne Berzerkers and Khar, shot them with 10 Bolt Pistol shots and one Plasma Pistol shot and got about 6 or 7 wounds. I then proceeded to save all but two of them thanks to feel no pain. So definitely some ridiculous luck on my side. The only things that worked out well for my friend was his Maulerfiend, Kharn and, after missing all the action, his Warp Talons dropping in and getting blind off on everything but the Swarmlord. In all it was a fun game and a good learning experience for us both though not close at all.

[mechana2015]

There's rumblings (and I have my own suspicions) that when IG and Orks come around they will be getting Baneblades and Stompas, restatted and pointed for normal games. It would sort of make sense sense it means no making of new molds or design costs.

The game sounds crazy, especially the incredibly lucky rolls.

[Peanut]

Well, I am, interestingly enough, considering repainting all of my Tyranids. This was based off of an idea I had when I was playing with my friend last week to create a "Dapper" Broodlord by giving one of my Broodlord's a Top hat and Cane (picture of the model in case you are curious as to why I would think of doing this) and then I got to thinking. What if I completely redid my Tyranids to be Tuxedo theme and have my own dapper swarm. I could, if I wanted to take the time, even make a bunch of bow ties for every single unit. Anyway, over the next week I'm going to run some tests with the following lists against my Necrons both too get a bit more experience playing that list and try some things out. All of these are 1000 points

List 1:

Draigo
5 Paladins-Hammer, Halbred, Sword, Falchions, Apothecary, Brotherhood Banner, 2 Psycannons
5 Grey Knights
Stormraven-Twin LInked Lascannons, Twin Linked Multi-Melta

Basically, just trying out a flier and small version of my Paladin list. Nothing too special.

List 2:

Hive Tyrant-Armored Shell, Bone Sword and Lash Whip, Heavy Venom Cannon, Armored Shell, Old Adversery
2 Hive Guard
6 Warriors-5 Deathspitters, 1 Barbed Strangler
6 Warriors-5 Deathspitters, 1 Venom Cannon
Carnifex- 2 Twin-Linked Devourers; Frag Spines

Very different list from what I usually run. In fact, I only have 6 Warrior Models in total to use so I'm probably going to be using Terminators as stand ins. The Hive Tyrant is basically the first Hive Tyrant I ever got with some upgrades to make it last longer (Armored Shell gives it a 2+ armor save) and a buffs to make the army better (Old Adversery gives Perfered Enemy to every unit within 12" of it and, of course, it gets 2 Pyschic Powers). The rest of the Army is very good at shooting and pretty good at close Combat. Warriors weren't great in the last edition because they had no way to deal with instant death but at the end of the day they are t4 3w troops that can take an Assault 3 Strength 5 Ap 5 weapon with a 24" range (which is better then most things in the codex). Among the troops, they are probably second to only Devourer equipped Gaunts in terms of anti-infantry fire. My friend doesn't run a lot of Strength 8 shooting in most of his lists so I'm curious as to how Warriors would run in a similar situation (my Necrons don't have much either). Carnifex's with Devourers are actually really good. They are pricey but they have great shooting (12 strength 6 shots that are twin linked) and are still very good in an Assault (Frag Spines give them assault grenades and they are still a 4 Attack strength 9 monstrous creature). It'll be interesting to see how this runs against another shooty army in my Necrons.

[mechana2015]

Dapper nids sounds awesome. A guy on the Hordes forums did dapper gators and the project came out incredible.

I got some more tau bodies today, some old pathfinders and firewarriors, 6 in all for 5 bucks. they need a little work, but I'll be able to fill out my first unit of pathies to 9 bodies it looks like, so I'll be able to have a squad of at least 9 with 3 rail rifles and a squad of 6 with rail rifles or ion rifles, and 1 spare to build Darkstrider out of.

[Peanut]

This might be more work, but alternatively I could create Tuxedos for each of my models instead of repainting them. Either way if I decide to do this, I'll figure something out.

[mechana2015]

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthr ... per+gators a linki to the genteel collective of gatorfolk, just for some inspiration. Good stuff starts on page 3.

[Peanut]

Those are really good and are giving me some ideas of what I can do. Unfortunately, because all of my models are already put together, I don't think I can do suits/tuxs for every model I have. Anything holding a gun, for instance, I would have to take apart and make work. With that being said, I think top hats are not out of the question. I'm looking into options right now on how to make this as cheap and quick as possible though it is looking more and more like I'm just going to have to make my own hats out of sculpy or something and then glue them on. I'm not going to repaint my nids because I just don't feel like spending the time completely redoing them. I am, however, more then willing to glue things onto them to make them more stylish.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention that the easiest thing for me to find are canes for my Broodlords. Warding Staffs are the perfect sized walking cane for a gentlemanly Broodlord.

[mechana2015]

So it's looking like July might be Apocalypse. Thoughts?

[Peanut]

So it's looking like July might be Apocalypse. Thoughts?

Well Tyranids allies are all listed "Come the Apocalypse" so that means in July, in Apocalypse games only, Tyranids should be allied with everyone. I for one look forward to running an army of Tervigons with Vendettas for support. That is how it works right? Right? GW? Please let that work...just this once...

Apocalypse should be neat. My big question is if Apocalypse is coming, does this mean we are going to see more of the $115, mini-titan sized models showing up. I think every army has at least one Forgeworld model that could be brought over. I could see it as being an opportunity to set up more models like the Wraithknight for future inclusion into 40k or as an excuse to plug some holes existent in armies in general. Tyranids, for instance, lack a real flyer presence that could probably be fixed by making the Harridan a thing. I'm interested in the whole thing but probably won't pick it up since Apocalypse games are huge and I don't have the space or people to play it with to justify the likely $50+ price tag that will get placed on it.

[mechana2015]

So it's looking like July might be Apocalypse. Thoughts?

Well Tyranids allies are all listed "Come the Apocalypse" so that means in July, in Apocalypse games only, Tyranids should be allied with everyone. I for one look forward to running an army of Tervigons with Vendettas for support. That is how it works right? Right? GW? Please let that work...just this once...

Apocalypse should be neat. My big question is if Apocalypse is coming, does this mean we are going to see more of the $115, mini-titan sized models showing up. I think every army has at least one Forgeworld model that could be brought over. I could see it as being an opportunity to set up more models like the Wraithknight for future inclusion into 40k or as an excuse to plug some holes existent in armies in general. Tyranids, for instance, lack a real flyer presence that could probably be fixed by making the Harridan a thing. I'm interested in the whole thing but probably won't pick it up since Apocalypse games are huge and I don't have the space or people to play it with to justify the likely $50+ price tag that will get placed on it.

The pics I saw showed that yes there are more large kits coming, so far only a super monolith for necrons (possibly a 2 in one kit) and a Chaos...tank...thing... (also possibly a 2 in one kit) have been seen. Whether these will be playable in a normal game like a the Wraithknight is still up in the air. It would be nice to see a... better tau flyer as well, and see the nids get something to scale with the Wraithknight though, seeing that the supers that we've seen so far are for the recently released armies, it's possible that we might not see a nid one until the nid codex comes out <.<;;.

[Peanut]

The pics I saw showed that yes there are more large kits coming, so far only a super monolith for necrons (possibly a 2 in one kit) and a Chaos...tank...thing... (also possibly a 2 in one kit) have been seen. Whether these will be playable in a normal game like a the Wraithknight is still up in the air. It would be nice to see a... better tau flyer as well, and see the nids get something to scale with the Wraithknight though, seeing that the supers that we've seen so far are for the recently released armies, it's possible that we might not see a nid one until the nid codex comes out <.<;;.

Wouldn't surprise me. I'm hoping not but that makes sense. I've heard rumors that we are supposed to be getting a Dominatrix with the new codex though I wouldn't be surprised if we got one of the non-Hierophant Forgeworld models as well or instead.

Edit: Just read a rumor that everyone but Guard and Orks are supposed to be getting a new apoc. vehicle and apoc. flyer when it comes out. Seems to correspond with what you have seen so maybe Nids will get the Dominatrix and something else (Harridan would be really neat).

[mechana2015]

I would lean towards or rather than and there on the flyer. I doubt everyone will get both as that is a ton more models than GW seems capable of releasing in a given month. As for forgeworld... I'd say expect stuff based off of epic or new models. GW hasn't sniped a Forgeworld model since the Shadowsword tank and shows no indication of doing so now. They have had ample opportunity to do so, with tau flyers (legions of tau players were hoping for Barricuda, Tiger shark or Remora drones for our flyer), Tau Battlesuits (XV9 series) and the Daemon engines (Decimator and Blood Slaughtere), chaos flyer(Hell Talon and Blade fighters), and the new chaos...superheavy...thing... (most people would prefer a brass scorpion) and have pretty much roundly ignored all of them and any design cues related to them. There has been tons of noise around a plastic warhound and a plastic thunderhawk for years, and nothing of the sort has been shown to be in the pipeline, so that all seems to be a pipe dream. Heres hoping whatever does come out is good and...not like what chaos is getting.

[Peanut]

I would lean towards or rather than and there on the flyer. I doubt everyone will get both as that is a ton more models than GW seems capable of releasing in a given month. As for forgeworld... I'd say expect stuff based off of epic or new models. GW hasn't sniped a Forgeworld model since the Shadowsword tank and shows no indication of doing so now. They have had ample opportunity to do so, with tau flyers (legions of tau players were hoping for Barricuda, Tiger shark or Remora drones for our flyer), Tau Battlesuits (XV9 series) and the Daemon engines (Decimator and Blood Slaughtere), chaos flyer(Hell Talon and Blade fighters), and the new chaos...superheavy...thing... (most people would prefer a brass scorpion) and have pretty much roundly ignored all of them and any design cues related to them. There has been tons of noise around a plastic warhound and a plastic thunderhawk for years, and nothing of the sort has been shown to be in the pipeline, so that all seems to be a pipe dream. Heres hoping whatever does come out is good and...not like what chaos is getting.

I hope not because that means we are getting the Harpy...and the Harpy kind of sucks...

[Yamamaya]

I hope not because that means we are getting the Harpy...and the Harpy kind of sucks...

Yeah, but maybe our new codex will make the Harpy more playable, and the model might look better. Who knows? I do hope we get a Tyrant/Hive Guard plastic kit. That would be fantastic. The way the recent updates have been going, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a new 85-115 dollar MC. I wouldn't mind getting a scaled down Hierophant or something like that. Even a redone Carnifex would be nice.

I just hope Genestealers and Carnifexes get buffed. It sucks not being able to use two of the iconic Tyranid units competitively. I also hope they don't screw over the Tervigon completely simply to force people to redo their army lists completely. Being able to spawn Hormagaunts from a Tervigon would be nice, although I'm not sure if that would upset the balance of the game too much.

[Peanut]

Yeah, but maybe our new codex will make the Harpy more playable, and the model might look better. Who knows? I do hope we get a Tyrant/Hive Guard plastic kit. That would be fantastic. The way the recent updates have been going, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a new 85-115 dollar MC. I wouldn't mind getting a scaled down Hierophant or something like that. Even a redone Carnifex would be nice.

I just hope Genestealers and Carnifexes get buffed. It sucks not being able to use two of the iconic Tyranid units competitively. I also hope they don't screw over the Tervigon completely simply to force people to redo their army lists completely. Being able to spawn Hormagaunts from a Tervigon would be nice, although I'm not sure if that would upset the balance of the game too much.

The probably is going to be what happens and I would be ok with that if the model was released a little later or something. Its just right now there is no reason for me to purchase a Harpy at all since they add nothing to just about any army. The rumors I've been reading state that the Dominatrix (basically a bigger Hive Tyrant) is in play testing. If that's true and the rumor about every army (minus Orks, Eldar and IG) getting one apocalypse unit and one flyer are true, my guess would be that Tyranids are going to get the Dominatrix as well as the Harpy. Carnifexes aren't going to be touched until the next book from my understanding. The good news is the rumors I've read about the new codex seem to indicate they will be getting cheaper and have more options which should make them way better then they are. Really just a reduction in their point cost would fix them in this edition since they already have good options (Four Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, and Frag Spines for Close combat, 2X Twin linked Devourers for ranged) they just were too expensive to realistically take more then 2 of them in a list. 2 Carnifexes aren't really that durable and given how slow they are...yeah not worth it.

I think in all likelyhood, we're going to get some sort of Psychic Power(s) to help with assault. Something that either makes it so a unit counts as having Grenades or something that makes them more durable for dealing with Overwatch. Its possible that Genestealers may get an ability to let them assault out of Outflank or Infiltrate but I wouldn't be surprised if they got nothing. I think Genestealers can still be used in the current edition you just have to take a Broodlord and think of them as Counter-Assault units instead of as the frontline shock troops they once were. I would love to see Hormagants bet the same treatment as Termagants but I get the feeling that isn't going to happen. It makes perfect sense for Tervigons to have the option to spawn Hormagants but I think Hormagants are sort of viewed as CC specialist Termagants while Termagants are the bland, standard Tyranid troop choice. Tervigons might get a slight nerf like an increase to point cost (or at least I hope so). What I really want to see is Synapse Creatures get Eternal Warrior. If that happens and Warriors remain a troop choice, that could be sick good.

My guess is that the Harpy (if it gets a model), Carnifex, Warriors, Raveners, Pyrovores and Hive Tyrants are probably going to get some sort of buff while Trygons, Tervigons, Hive Guard, Gargoyles, and Zoanthorpes are going to get nerfed to some degree. The Swarmlord, Doom of Malantai, Old One Eye and Deathleaper will probably all be changed around if they still make it into the book. That's just my guess though.

[mechana2015]

Some of the discussion has now shifted to armies getting their super...thing... with their codex, not the Apocalypse book.

Anyhow, I'm gonna try to learn to play 6th so I'm going to go play some 500 points at a local GW probably. Still building an army up for that. Not sure exactly what I want to take yet.

[Peanut]

Some of the discussion has now shifted to armies getting their super...thing... with their codex, not the Apocalypse book.

Anyhow, I'm gonna try to learn to play 6th so I'm going to go play some 500 points at a local GW probably. Still building an army up for that. Not sure exactly what I want to take yet.

What I've been doing with my learn how to play 6th games is taking at least one unit I'll probably use in a main list, a unit I probably will use in one of my main lists and then another unit that I want to experiment with. Its been working out pretty well so far.

[mechana2015]

500 Points List for Thursday

HQ
Shadowsun
MV52 Shield Drone

Troops
Firewarriors(8)

Firewarriors(7)
Firewarrior
7 Bonding Knives

Stealth Suit (3)

Pathfinders (4)
Rail Rifle
Ion Rifle

Pathfinders (4)

Plan is for Shadowsun to hang out with her stealth buddies, markerlight with one path unit and really open it up around 30" with markerlights pulse rifles and the special weapons. Save the gets hot AOE shots for anything that needs str 8.

[Peanut]

Interesting list. I'll be interested to hear how it did.

So I learned a few things this week. One being that Necron Warriors aren't super durable by themselves the other being that Tyranid Warriors are really good as long as there isn't an abundance of strength 8 shooting. Even then, it might be ok to take large quantities of them.

[Yamamaya]

Interesting list. I'll be interested to hear how it did.

So I learned a few things this week. One being that Necron Warriors aren't super durable by themselves the other being that Tyranid Warriors are really good as long as there isn't an abundance of strength 8 shooting. Even then, it might be ok to take large quantities of them.

Yeah the 4+ armor save makes them less likely to survive during the shooting phase. However, with a Necron Lord with a Res Orb, it can make units of Warriors a lot tougher.

I do hope Tyranid Warriors are made a bit better in the new codex though. Perhaps an eternal warrior upgrade, or even a +1 to their Toughness.

[mechana2015]

It didn't do anything because the guy didn't offer me a game, just a rules refresh. I got asked to join their escalation league about 4 times, but felt a bit like the guy just wanted me out of the store after signing up for something and buying something, especially after he started interrogating me as to why I didn't think a Riptide would fit in my army and sounded disappointed when I told him I had all my painting and hobby gear already. Debating joining the Escalation league (it's free) just to see how it goes and be ensured of some games, but if the 'buy something big every visit' pressure keeps up I'm going to be less than thrilled with the store, and probably just go elsewhere.

Things I did learn though, overwatch is OK, but not as game winning as one would hope. If something manages to get close enough without a shooting phase before overwatch, particularly something with a save, you ain't gonna off a lot of them. I'mma be taking Darkstrider for sure now just to get the chance to scoot away from assaulting forces. (and -1 Toughness to targets). Thrown grenades are/can be annoying as well, though I can get a smokescreen out of mine, so 2 sides to that coin I guess. Shadowsun gets hilarious look out sir rolls and may actually be a force in melee due to her higher weapons skill and ability to soak off wounds to her drones and the stealth suits in her unit (especially since the stealth suits make the save without fail).

New 500 Points with Darkstrider-

HQ
Darkstrider

Troops
Firewarriors(8)

Firewarriors(7)

Stealth Suit (3)

Pathfinders (6)
Rail Rifle
Ion Rifle (2)
Grav Inhibitor Drone
Pulse Acc Drone

Pathfinders (4)

[Peanut]

That doesn't sound too surprising. I've heard amazing things about Riptide's but obviously there is more in picking units then just picking what's hot at the time. This is why I take Tomb Blades instead of Wraiths for my Necrons. I think they fit better with my army and I like them better then Wraith's.

Yeah the 4+ armor save makes them less likely to survive during the shooting phase. However, with a Necron Lord with a Res Orb, it can make units of Warriors a lot tougher.

I do hope Tyranid Warriors are made a bit better in the new codex though. Perhaps an eternal warrior upgrade, or even a +1 to their Toughness.

I could also put them in a Night Scythe and that would solve the problem but I don't want to run fliers with my army because I want to be different.

They used to have eternal warrior standard (all Synapse Creatures did) so it wouldn't surprise me if next codex they get it back or something. They may not be troops then though but whatever. Better to have them not die then be taken and get shot to pieces.

[Yamamaya]

So guys, new Tyranid rumors.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/08/ ... anids.html

Looks like Nids will be coming after Space Marines. Really hyped about this. As expected we are getting the Harpy, as well as Parasite and Doom. Also, some sort of massive Nidzilla.

I do hope they re-release Zoans and Hive guard in plastic. I really would like to use real Hive Guard instead of converted Warriors.

[Peanut]

I have heard the same thing. I'm pretty excited though circumstances will prevent me from buying anything other then the new codex for a while.

Edit: Oh, I can actually attest to the fact that the Hive Guard Fine Cast kit is one of the few decent ones. Yeah, its resin and it has its problems but they go together pretty easy and don't have issues that other kits (*cough* Hive Tyrant Finecast *cough*) had.