Something that puzzles me about atheism

[rocklobster]

Actually 2 things that puzzle me about atheists:
1. Why are so many atheists on the Internet trollish, obnoxious, and childish? If they want me to think that being adult means not to believe in God, then why bully others who do? Bullying is downright childish.
2. Why do atheists call themselves free thinkers? I don't think Christians are slaves.

[uc pseudonym]

1) Three part answer:
- For the same reasons that every group on the internet has trollish, obnoxious and childish people.
- You see more atheist trolls because you frequent Christian websites and are directly offended by atheist claims.
- Some atheists feel that Christians don't engage in real dialogue with atheists and demand high levels of deference to religious beliefs, so they view harsh criticism as an appropriate response.

2) The term isn't "thinkers who are free" but "people who think freely." That is, think differently from the dominant traditions of their society. Think of "free" as it's used in "free verse" - atheists don't have doctrines structuring their thinking.

[Xeno]

Actually 2 things that puzzle me about atheists:
1. Why are so many atheists on the Internet trollish, obnoxious, and childish? If they want me to think that being adult means not to believe in God, then why bully others who do? Bullying is downright childish.
2. Why do atheists call themselves free thinkers? I don't think Christians are slaves.

I think that us pseudonym handled this quite well, but just for the sake of adding my own two cents:

1. Why, in contrast, are so many Christians in general trollish, obnoxious, and childish? If they want me to think that being adult means to believe in God, then why bully others who don't? Bullying is downright childish.
2. Why do Christians call themselves free thinkers? I don't think atheists are slaves.

e: wooo, drunk posting, didn't see the typos.

[Zeldafan2]

[redacted]

[Xeno]

Look at it this way Rock. Atheists have, for over a thousand years, been punished more than any actively practicing religious group. Of course we aren't an organized religion, so there are no major records of the "atheist suffering" but you can find record of what has happened to people over the centuries who chose to not believe. They were punished and tortured, they had their books burned, they were forced out of schools, exiled, treated like diseased because we chose not to adhere to the beliefs give to us by some book, but rather that which we can observe around us.

Now, we have a medium in which we can make our opinions known and not suffer for them. We don't have to subject ourselves to dogmas and doctrines we believe are false to avoid brutality because of laws in the countries that many of us live in (unfortunately many still live in countries where this isn't the case). But you want to complain because we exercise our right to voice our opinion instead of just sitting silent? A contrary opinion is not trolling, or being obnoxious, or trying to bully you. If you want us to be open to your thoughts and opinions, you need to first be open to ours, that's how it works.

Atheists get yelled at constantly that we're going to hell because of our unbelief, that we're a bunch of sinners with no morals and we live empty lives because we don't have Jesus. None of this is true, but because more often than not people aren't willing to listen to us explain how we view the world, we get angry and we start yelling back across the street. Take the time to understand the views of atheists and agnostics and you'll expand your worldview.

[rocklobster]

Yeah but at least be civil about it. That's all I ask. I only call it bullying when they're actually bullying. I respect atheists when they respect me. Not all atheists are as kind as you, Xeno.

[Zeldafan2]

Look at it this way Rock. Atheists have, for over a thousand years, been punished more than any actively practicing religious group. Of course we aren't an organized religion, so there are no major records of the "atheist suffering" but you can find record of what has happened to people over the centuries who chose to not believe. They were punished and tortured, they had their books burned, they were forced out of schools, exiled, treated like diseased because we chose not to adhere to the beliefs give to us by some book, but rather that which we can observe around us.

Now, we have a medium in which we can make our opinions known and not suffer for them. We don't have to subject ourselves to dogmas and doctrines we believe are false to avoid brutality because of laws in the countries that many of us live in (unfortunately many still live in countries where this isn't the case). But you want to complain because we exercise our right to voice our opinion instead of just sitting silent? A contrary opinion is not trolling, or being obnoxious, or trying to bully you. If you want us to be open to your thoughts and opinions, you need to first be open to ours, that's how it works.

Atheists get yelled at constantly that we're going to hell because of our unbelief, that we're a bunch of sinners with no morals and we live empty lives because we don't have Jesus. None of this is true, but because more often than not people aren't willing to listen to us explain how we view the world, we get angry and we start yelling back across the street. Take the time to understand the views of atheists and agnostics and you'll expand your worldview.

[redacted]

[Atria35]

Yeah but at least be civil about it. That's all I ask. I only call it bullying when they're actually bullying. I respect atheists when they respect me. Not all atheists are as kind as you, Xeno.

You're probably also getting a highly biased view of aetheists - the vast majority of aetheists who would join a Christian forum would be the trolls or people who were going to be rude.

However, go to any Aetheist forum, and you'll find the vast majority of Christians who join are also trolls or people who joined just to yell that everyone on it was going to Hell.

It all depends on what part of the internet you're looking at.

[Nate]

I've seen plenty of Christian trolls, go to Free Republic or Conservapedia, there's nothing but ignorant, hateful, and I will go so far as to say completely evil people who wear the title of Christian.

[Zeldafan2]

I've seen plenty of Christian trolls, go to Free Republic or Conservapedia, there's nothing but ignorant, hateful, and I will go so far as to say completely evil people who wear the title of Christian.

[redacted]

[Nate]

All of the ones on Free Republic are, because if anyone says something against the hate machine there they are accused of being a secret liberal atheist and banned. Conservapedia is the same way. I wasn't saying all conservatives are like that, I was saying all the ones on those two websites are.

[Zeldafan2]

All of the ones on Free Republic are, because if anyone says something against the hate machine there they are accused of being a secret liberal atheist and banned. Conservapedia is the same way. I wasn't saying all conservatives are like that, I was saying all the ones on those two websites are.

Yeah. Okay, that makes sense.

After checking Free Republic, yeah, that community is just.... Wow...

[Ante Bellum]

I don't think there is some special persecution for atheists.

Fun fact: seven state constitutions forbid atheists from holding public office. Thankfully, it's not technically legal to enforce this. There's still the bias favoring Christians over atheists, from court rulings to simple surveys on trust. Let's face it. Atheists are, as a whole, not very well liked. (Not to say that other groups don't face even worse discrimination, because they do, but that doesn't negate that atheists face discrimination just because we don't believe in a god)

As for your questions:
1. I dunno about you, but I see far more "trollish, obnoxious, and childish" Christians online. It's made worse when these same people then go off and claim to be loving and that those mean nasty atheists are hateful and have nothing better to do than pick on the poor vulnerable Christians who are only there to spread love. You'd think, after reading enough, an atheist (especially one who has seen the damage religion has caused) might want to speak up a bit, and that in doing so might not be the most amicable. I for one am not willing to be nice after I am directly told that my atheism will lead me to a life of drug abuse. Or after I hear that I'm an awful person who only deserves eternal torment. Or that I'm an idiot for not believing in a divine being (or beings) that can't be proven. You get the picture. So forgive me, or don't, if I'm just a bit short-tempered.
2. Because we're free to think what we want without fear of judgment by the aforementioned divine being(s)?

[goldenspines]

Friendly reminder to please stay away from politics in this thread, please.

Short answers to the OP:
1. Because they are human, just like everyone else.
2. Everyone is a slave in some way. Each person serves some type of "master" in their life that they base their beliefs on. [/myownopinionthough]
UC covered this question quite well, though, so just reread his response.

There's only a fine line that separates atheists from Christians (or any other religious group) because we are all still humans. While this fine line is a defining difference, it doesn't really affect one's human behavior to the result of "Christians are always nice because they believe in God, and atheists are mean because they don't." That's just silly, illogical talk. Belief in God doesn't somehow magically give you morals or kindness towards others, nor does not believing in God make you unable to be a thoughtful and moralistic person.

It's a bit unnerving to think that everyone, regardless of belief, has the potential to be a bully/troll. Some people might be more susceptible than others, but it rarely has to do with a belief system as much as just personality type, I think.

[Davidizer13]

I just want to add, the term "free-thinker," as I understand it, does not imply a lack of religious affiliation. The way I've heard it used, it can apply to anyone who is consistently going against established traditions and the old ways of thinking, and those who don't believe anything without sufficient evidence or reason for it. By this standard, many of the founders of the Reformation like Luther, Calvin, etc. could be called free-thinkers.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Because most Christians are seen as ignorant when it comes to issues of science and philosophy. That's not to say that atheists don't hold their own pro-atheism agenda, but they tend to be more concerned with the search for an objective sort of truth. That being said, atheism hasn't been a major intellectual force up until around the mid 1800s with the rise of Left-Hegelian philosophy (Google it if you care), so until then, Atheists or "anti-establisment" thinkers were often persecuted just like any other minority group.

Most atheists I've met are not bullyish or childish. They just get fed-up with the same old ridiculous arguments that Christians make. This makes sense to me because, well, I think rational thought works more favorably towards atheism (they keyword here is "rational thought").

[rocklobster]

That's because you don't go on youtube. All over the place, there are obnoxious atheists who constantly berate any Christian who dares to watch them. Even worse, if you post a Christian one, they rudely attack and never let up. (It's the reason I almost never click on the comments for a Christian video. I don't want to get involved in talking to these people. I did it once, and backed out before things got worse. I saw an atheist video warning Christians that atheists "rule the internet" and Christians are now unwelcome. The person in the video said we use up their valuable resources and we're better off dead. I'd link the video, but it's consistently filled with the F-word. If you can stomach it, look up "atheists rule the internet" on youtube.

[Davidizer13]

99% of everyone on Youtube are idiots, and they're all screaming at each other at the same time. It's not an atheist or Christian or any other religion's problem, it's the fact that it's one of the world's biggest websites. You're bound to have someone who thinks X with all their heart and posts it anywhere the heck they want, and inevitably someone who's going to fight against X to their dying breath is going to find it. It doesn't matter if X is their religion, using the sacred name, vaccines, politics, even what video game is better, whatever it is, someone on Youtube is fighting to the death about it, right now. The most vicious Youtube fights I've seen have been over classical music, for crying out loud.

You can say anything you want on Youtube, but hardly any of what people have to say is worth listening to.

[Atria35]

99% of everyone on Youtube are idiots, and they're all screaming at each other at the same time.

THIS. Youtube is the silliest place to go looking for rational, calm -anybody-, no matter if they're aetheist, Christian, or other. They Do Not Exist on the Youtube. If you went searching for Christian videos, you'd find the exact same amount of rude, hateful messages as you did Aetheist.

[mechana2015]

99% of everyone on Youtube are idiots, and they're all screaming at each other at the same time.

To quote what I often say when someone sends me a link to a youtube video.
"OH NO I STARTED READING THE COMMENTS!"

Youtube's comments section is the quickest way to get the worst impression of any group of people, probably followed by the undermoderated comments section of any major news site.

[Atria35]

It also only took a very fast YT search of "Christianity Aetheist' to uncover a treasure trove of Christians outright calling aetheists idiots and morons.

In short, YT is NOT a place to search for rational aetheists.

[Xeno]

It also only took a very fast YT search of "Christianity Aetheist' to uncover a treasure trove of Christians outright calling aetheists idiots and morons.

In short, YT is NOT a place to search for rational aetheists.

YT is not a place to search for rational anythings. You'll find that the majority of outspoken atheists and doubtful agnostics are a lot like myself. We get frustrated with a lot of things said by religious people in response to us for various reasons because we feel we aren't being taken seriously or being rationally addressed, but we're not out looking for religious people to scream at about how they're wrong. We have lives and we want to to live them as peacefully as possible, but we do speak up when we feel it is necessary.

[Atria35]

^ Yep, that, as well.

[SailorDove]

This was a very interesting thread, thanks for commenting everyone. Good food for thought.

[bigsleepj]

Just to note, I read an interview with a internet troll. Despite being an atheist he admitted to sometimes pretending to the be a fundamentalist Christian on atheist websites to troll them as well, to get the same response. Many times they just want to wind people up or want attention, even if its negative attention. In the end its difficult on the internet to truly know whose opinion is real.

[Xeno]

Just to note, I read an interview with a internet troll. Despite being an atheist he admitted to sometimes pretending to the be a fundamentalist Christian on atheist websites to troll them as well, to get the same response. Many times they just want to wind people up or want attention, even if its negative attention. In the end its difficult on the internet to truly know whose opinion is real.

Very much this. The art of trolling is to upset people by any means necessary. Even if this means going into "long troll" mode and spending months tricking people into believing you're one thing, only to fool them into thinking something so you can infuriate them at a later point (or subtly make them mad over the long period of time).

[randomuser2349]

Actually 2 things that puzzle me about atheists:
1. Why are so many atheists on the Internet trollish, obnoxious, and childish? If they want me to think that being adult means not to believe in God, then why bully others who do? Bullying is downright childish.
2. Why do atheists call themselves free thinkers? I don't think Christians are slaves.

1. Because many of them don't have a voice in the "real world", many resort to the internet and scream their views out loud. Many of them come from Christian families who have had Christianity preached to them in very un-Christlike ways. Many of them had to take a lot of garbage from the ones who are extreme and give the religion a bad name.
2. Several atheists call themselves as free-thinkers as many think that religion in general is a controlling burden on their minds.

[Vega]

Well for the most part everything was pretty much covered but I'll have to second all that Xeno has said. As a non christian I've gotten attacked just as much as a christian might by an atheist. The fight is double sided. No one side is worse than the other because both religious people and atheists alike have their fair share or trolls and mean spirited individuals. Its a matter of picking the good of each group because everyone can have something good to offer.
As for the free thinking concept, when ive used it I mostly allude to the concept of thought and belief that is free from religious based doctrine.
Thats my two cents XD