Still not feeling accepted around others...

[dothackzero]

Okay, I've been able to get out and being able to spend more time with my friends. My shyness and fears have gone by a lot especially the shyness. I still don't really have any normal social skills, so it like when I was in elementry school before I using being shy as a barrier from being reject(I'm guessing). So it's going been going down lately(Mostly through listening to a lot of pure grace messages about God), but I guess the confidence it's going up. I'm still basically acting like I was when I was little kid, only instead of making weird noises all the time, I'm just making perverted jokes(Though my friends are doing it too, but I just tend to not know when to stop), but I really don't know how to express myself to other people that well when talk gets more serious(Though in my own head, I'm probably as good or better than others in expressing my self.) I don't know maybe it's a fear of being wrong or something, or being rejected. So basically do the pervered type jokes to get noticed, or I'll just be the random creepy silent person that laughs at everything.

Anyways, basically I feeling like I'm being more of pain to my friends than anything else(Well the guys know me well enough that isn't much of a problem). But the girl(diffrent one from the one I was talking about before) in the group, I really don't feel close to at alll(This mostly where I'm depressed, and I'm not even looking at her as a potentional girlfriend/wife.) Even tonight when we were hanging and started to go, she gave me a hug, but it was one the extreme side hugs where it's just doing it to get me to leave her alone or something. I mean it like we're fine when were playing Magic and having fun, but I'm still really feeling accepted with her.

As for the girl I was talking about before, I do feel accepted around her and I do have her number. But we haven't had a chance to hang out yet since she's busy with work and stuff, and really just hanging out with ever. So I just haven't been able to hang out with for a while

[SilverToast]

Good for you that you are feeling more confident!

I can relate to not being very social. I can also relate to a lot of what you have said about not feeling like I can express myself well to others, feeling like a pain to others, and being worried about not feeling close to a person. I don't have as much social skills either. Or maybe it is that I have different social skills.

I have been in a similar situation that you are going through. It seems that your actual problem is that you feel pressured to be a different person who is very social.

First off. There is nothing wrong with being shy. Don't worry that you aren't outgoing like your friends or worry about not expressing yourself as well as others. Be happy with who you are.

I know I have tried to be outgoing and very social, but at the end of the day I felt even more depressed because that person wasn't who I was comfortable being. People I tried to make friends with being that person were annoyed too. haha

If you don't have much to say, don't be frustrated. Listen and others will be happy to have someone who listens and considers what they are saying. Then make a little bit of a response. It surprisingly makes communicating with others very effective.

As for when you really want to express something. Just try. It is scary and it might hurt at times, but it gets better with practice. Of course be careful about what you express.haha

From my experience, if you feel more comfortable with the person you are it is easier to make as well as be a friend to someone. People are empathetic and can feel when you are uncomfortable and worried, and they will feel it as well. They can also feel when you are content and comfortable.

Spending more meaningful time with a person talking and listening to them and getting to know them is how you can get closer to someone.

Don't try to be really social because other well meaning outgoing-not-shy people tell you it is bad to be shy and you need to "get out of your shell" more. They probably haven't been in your situation or know any better.

Everyone is different and we should all appreciate,understand, and respect that. You can still be shy and happy and have friends.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps.

[armeck]

you play magic? nice! what do you think of return to ravnica? allow me to say though, all of your threads seem to revolve around your girl issues. I'm not sure that this is healthy for you.

[dothackzero]

you play magic? nice! what do you think of return to ravnica? allow me to say though, all of your threads seem to revolve around your girl issues. I'm not sure that this is healthy for you.

I basically just started playing last week.

[K. Ayato]

I would suggest you seriously stop the perverted jokes in order to get noticed. It's not appropriate in any situation, and I'm sure you don't want to be remembered as "the guy who only says something perverted" the more these people see you.

[dothackzero]

Like I said, or atleast I think I said. My other friends(including the girl I'm talking about) does it too. I just tend to have bad timing, making jokes about dEck protection in a public place.

[K. Ayato]

What's that supposed to mean?

[Xeno]

Like I said, or atleast I think I said. My other friends(including the girl I'm talking about) does it too. I just tend to have bad timing, making jokes about dEck protection in a public place.

Grow up son.

Also, here is a visual representation of a forthcoming post from me (I haven't had the time to construct it yet):

[Atria35]

Like I said, or atleast I think I said. My other friends(including the girl I'm talking about) does it too. I just tend to have bad timing, making jokes about dEck protection in a public place.

If you can't figure out when to make them and how far to take it, don't make the jokes at all. It's far better to be the one who laughs at those jokes than the creepy guy who doesn't know what's appropriate and what's not - and that's exactly how you'll come off if you continue to do it.

Being funny takes practice, and until you master the appropriate stuff you cannot take on the inappropriate stuff.

[K. Ayato]

Thumper says it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71cY9Ysy5U

[dothackzero]

I'll just link to the other website I'm asking this about. I probably went into a lot more detail over there.

http://christianchat.com/christian-singles-forum/52257-still-not-feeling-accepted-around-others-2.html#post829480

[K. Ayato]

It's just a redone version of what you've already talked about in spades over here. *yawn*

[Atria35]

I'm just going to repeat this:

If physical touch is a condition for just a friendship, you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment. It also makes me question the intent here, you say this girl is not someone you desire as a partner, but you won't feel accepted by her unless she touches you?

If someone doesn't want to get close to you, just move on. Forcing the issue eventually comes off as desperation and being needy, which aren't attractive qualities.

Your original post stated that you struggle with feeling accepted..it sucks to go through loneliness, but you can't find happiness in other people..they don't owe you anything. I'm not trying to nag or pick on you. Don't underestimate your own value and resort to overtly sexual behavior to get attention, a lot of women can see right through that.People will want to draw closer if you give them a chance to see what you actually bring to the table.

Think of it like a salesperson, you have to tap into your CLIENT'S needs and motivations in order for them to listen to your sales pitch. You can't sell anything to anyone by telling them what YOU need out of a transaction, your client will distrust you immediately.
Likewise, you can't expect people, ladies or guys, to just want to meet your emotional/physical needs...you need to sell yourself better so that they want to be around you.

No matter what kind of physical touch you prefer or why, it's CREEPY and UNACCEPTABLE to think that a girl owes you it. To say "So how's wanting a simple hug from a girl when saying see ya(Without a girl just doing it to get it over with)at the very least so freaking unreasonable." just shows how completely immature and selfish you are when it comes to other people's comfort levels. If a girl isn't comfortable giving hugs or touching, then they have the perogative of never doing it. Forcing it or thinking it's owed to you is completely and utterly wrong.

To take a note from the Bible,

1 Corinthians 13:4-7:

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

If you want to be a friend to these girls - to love them as friends - you grow up and don't demand things that make you happy. You strive to make them feel comfortable and accepted.

If they are good friends, then they will reciprocate, and THEY will let you know when physical touch is okay.

And seriously, since you're coming off as the creepy dude that makes the inappropriate jokes at the wrong time, then OF COURSE she's not going to want to touch you with a 10 foot pole! That is the one sure BEST way to make sure no girl wants to.

[Okami]

Forcing it or thinking it's owed to you is completely and utterly wrong.

Quoting a professor, "Forced intimacy is like psychological rape."

[K. Ayato]

Start learning how to think of what other people may feel instead of focusing on yourself, dang it!

[dothackzero]

I'm just going to repeat this:

No matter what kind of physical touch you prefer or why, it's CREEPY and UNACCEPTABLE to think that a girl owes you it. To say "So how's wanting a simple hug from a girl when saying see ya(Without a girl just doing it to get it over with)at the very least so freaking unreasonable." just shows how completely immature and selfish you are when it comes to other people's comfort levels. If a girl isn't comfortable giving hugs or touching, then they have the perogative of never doing it. Forcing it or thinking it's owed to you is completely and utterly wrong.

Actually, I wouldn't force a girl hug me if she didn't want to. But yeah it is selfish... I'm sorry.

I might just be trying to push things, so I can have a normal social life. Well, actually I am. But yeah, after that awkward hug, I did realize that I'd probably better off waiting for her to hug me next time...

Actually, a better way to put it is that I'm just trying to make up for lost time.

[Atria35]

Actually, a better way to put it is that I'm just trying to make up for lost time.

You cannot 'make up for lost time' with friendships. That's forcing them into molds and stages that they might never have been. Each relationship is different and unique, and trying to make it something it isn't and not letting it evolve is going to doom it.

[K. Ayato]

And stop double or even triple posting in your own threads.

[Jingo Jaden]

Actually, I wouldn't force a girl hug me if she didn't want to. But yeah it is selfish... I'm sorry.

Listen, everyone can understand the desire, but desire is not fate, desire is also not something God, or others owe to you. Desire is a goal that's yet to be reached, and in this case, it's a goal where you most likely have to do the most of the walking.

Sexual jokes is an art, and it is so largely because there is a fine line between the funny, the unfitting and the awkward. It is even more fragile in a group, and generally speaking, going overly detailed or potty-mouthed will make you seem like an awkward creeper. If a girl gives you the signal that she wants to be in peace, please, don't push forward. Because that's awful.

Now here is your major issue, and it's not even presumption. Your major issue is that you combine the 4 vices of poor formalization, bad timing, over-reaching and a very stern, and an inability to listen properly. You've changed some, at the very least, so you must have taken some to heart, but that's happened way slow, and girls tends to look at the big picture. As in, what kind of person you really are, before they'd go to the extreme of wanting to be intimate in any form with you. If you appear creepy, they won't bother to look further in, eventually, such a thing will develop a reputation behind your back, and that will become reality given time. And it's close to impossible to manage something under those circumstances. Or, at least, unless you change.

So, you have to start at square one else you will keep half-tripping all over the place. A good place to start is dropping the sexual jokes, period, its way too fragile for you to balance just now. Work on having a nice, but not too forced or creepy smile. Don't try to be too clever, and don't make a move until you've known someone for months in good standings. Don't scout for girls in the church, bad, bad idea. Wrong place to say the least. And also, understand that women are not objects, they are living beings with their own dreams and desires. That has to be respected. That's the core fundamental of it all, because if you cannot respect someone as a person, then you must understand that something is fundamentally wrong, and you must take on the responsibility to tend to that, until it becomes right. Don't talk about starting a family too early, that should happen after years and with a stable job and steady income, with good relationship foresight too.

Good fundamentals, as in, not trying to be clever, forcing a conversation, actually spending most of the time listening, simple, yet well formulated responses can win some girls. Some self practice even in front of the mirror, on how to say things, how to appear saying them, and eventually you might build up a charm of some kind. Cut down on the jokes, jokes are essentially short-cuts and while they can work, they are an art as well and it takes time to understand the when's and where's. Regardless, you must understand you are at square 1, square 2 is what you should be looking at, which is conversation basics. Square 3 is charm and appearance. Square 4 is confidence and humor and square five is the perfect balance where all the traits said before goes into use for appropriate compliments that fulfills the female counterpart. Square 1 is simply understanding that you got a path to go, but I can guarantee you, there is no short-cuts, and if you ignore it, fine, you'll be in the outhouse for another year.

[Davidizer13]

Actually, I wouldn't force a girl hug me if she didn't want to. But yeah it is selfish... I'm sorry.

It goes beyond that, the things you were saying made it sound like since you've been friends for so long, you deserve that hug from her. You don't, especially not the way you've been acting. She doesn't owe you anything. Nobody does.

Holy cow, dude, all you post about on that other forum (and over here) is about scoring a hot babe. You're worshiping some ideal romance you've built up, where everything would be perfect if only you had a flawless, sparkling, virgin female compatriot at your side; it's gone beyond simply being an obsession (which is bad enough), to becoming an idol to you. What have you done with God along the way?

And what happens if, somehow, you get this gal you like to become your girlfriend/wife? (Yes, I know what you said. Quit fooling yourself, that's exactly how you're seeing her.) What are your plans to make her happy, support her, etc.? You will have to give everything you've got. What are you really ready to give up for this relationship? All I see is you asking what you can get from her, and that's a disaster waiting to happen; what if she comes into the relationship with the same attitude and finds that you've got nothing to give her?

Get a hobby or something, dude. Take a break from the ladies. I've lived almost my whole life without having a relationship close enough to someone where I've had to think about all this. You're not ready for them yet - for their sake, you need to become a better man. And don't try to jump back into it when you feel like it; I think they'll let you know when it's time. Life's more than just girls.

[goldenspines]

Merged your posts together, Dot. Please be mindful when you post and Edit when necessary. Double posts can get confusing to read on a forum. :\

I pretty much agree with the advice already given in this thread.

It may help you quite a bit to start accepting yourself, Dot, and not trying to fit into a certain "This is how I'm suppose to be" mold (aka: Stop beating yourself up all the time. It's not noble and really won't help you move forward, man). Not everyone is going to have the same experiences in life, in relationships, etc. Start from square one and take it one step at a time at your own pace. You're not "behind" in anything, so don't feel the need to somehow rush ahead to "Point X" in your life.

[Xeno]

I'm still basically acting like I was when I was little kid, only instead of making weird noises all the time, I'm just making perverted jokes(Though my friends are doing it too, but I just tend to not know when to stop),

I'm going to start off here. Because doing what your friends do is always a great idea. If all of my friends decided they wanted to stick their hands under a running lawn mower, I wouldn't do it, because common sense tells me that's a bad idea. If my friends are making "perverted jokes" then I use common sense and discernment to know what is and is not too far. And if I'm not able to tell if something is or is not acceptable then I just don't say it because I typically don't want to look like a creep, which is exactly what you're doing.

but I really don't know how to express myself to other people that well when talk gets more serious(Though in my own head, I'm probably as good or better than others in expressing my self.)

Except that you're not. If you don't know how to convey your own thoughts then you are not better at expressing yourself. You're not good at it. Hell, you're not even mediocre, you're just just plain bad. You don't get to say you're good at something when you can't do it. That's like saying you're a totally awesome basketball player........on XBOX.

I don't know maybe it's a fear of being wrong or something, or being rejected. So basically do the pervered type jokes to get noticed, or I'll just be the random creepy silent person that laughs at everything.

No, you're the creepy person when you make the pervy joke, you're just being a guy laughing when you laugh at the awful, juvenile, 8th grader-style jokes about protecting a dEck.

Anyways, basically I feeling like I'm being more of pain to my friends than anything else(Well the guys know me well enough that isn't much of a problem).

What about us? You never think of us. ]But the girl(diffrent one from the one I was talking about before) in the group, I really don't feel close to at alll[/quote]
OH NO! HEAVEN FORBID YOU NOT FEEL CLOSE TO EVERYONE IN YOUR GROUP!!!!!!

(This mostly where I'm depressed, and I'm not even looking at her as a potentional girlfriend/wife.)

And you shouldn't be. She doesn't owe you anything. She is in the group of friends you hang out with.

Bonus comment: STOP LOOKING FOR A WIFE YOU IDIOT.

Even tonight when we were hanging and started to go, she gave me a hug, but it was one the extreme side hugs where it's just doing it to get me to leave her alone or something.

What even is this? Because yes, when a girl wants you to leave her alone, SHE HUGS YOU. Wrong again, Bob. She is in your group of friends, she was probably just showing general affection but it means nothing. Quit over thinking this stuff.

I mean it like we're fine when were playing Magic and having fun, but I'm still really feeling accepted with her.

You just said she hugged you to get you to leave her alone and now a sentence later, you're saying you feel accepted by her. You have one of the worse cases of bi-polar I've ever encountered.

As for the girl I was talking about before, I do feel accepted around her and I do have her number. But we haven't had a chance to hang out yet since she's busy with work and stuff, and really just hanging out with ever. So I just haven't been able to hang out with for a while

The grammatical structure of this bit here is really difficult to grasp, but I'm assuming you're saying that while you have this girl's number and feel "accepted" by her, whatever the hell that means, you don't ever do anything with her....well okay. People do have their own lives, don't expect people to change how they live to focus on you because no one individual is really all that important.

I've said it before in previous threads of yours, and I'm going to say it again a little differently this time. Do not expect to ever find a life partner. You are not owed anything or anyone. You may very well end up lonely in this life, and with the way you act and think it's really quite likely. There is another thread on that site that you linked to about wanting to find a Christian girl that is a virgin, and I've got to say that I found the whole thing pretty disgusting and rather petty. People are the SUM of all of their life experiences and are not defined by one or two things that they have or have not done. Stop acting like a child. Your account says you are twenty four years old, there are nineteen year olds on this site that are more mature than you. Act your age, stop making excuses for yourself, and get it in line.

[dothackzero]

So yeah, basically just let things happen naturally and not try to force thing happen right? But yeah, I did take overblow things way too much.

It may help you quite a bit to start accepting yourself, Dot, and not trying to fit into a certain "This is how I'm suppose to be" mold (aka: Stop beating yourself up all the time. It's not noble and really won't help you move forward, man). Not everyone is going to have the same experiences in life, in relationships, etc. Start from square one and take it one step at a time at your own pace. You're not "behind" in anything, so don't feel the need to somehow rush ahead to "Point X" in your life.

I know, I'm a introvert, but I'm not trying to become a extreme extrovert that can and will talk to anyone I can find. I basically just want to have a fairly small group of friend that I can hang out with while being more being more of an extrovert in the group I'm comfortable with.

[Xeno]

Okay, I guess I used too many words in my last post. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because reading is hard, so here is the same post considerably filtered down into it's bare meaning in pictures with just a few words.

You're focusing too much on


and not enough on


so get your


out of your

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Good lord a girl isn't going to automatically be your best friend after hanging out for like a month or two.

But like... everyone else said everything that is needed to be said and more.

Also I tap two white mana and cast circle of protection.



I don't even really know what's going on anymore...

[dothackzero]

Yeah, so basically things weren't going as fast as I wanted things to. So I got pissy and depressed. Sometimes, I just need other people to talk me down like you guys did.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Just go up to her (or any other girl you like) and ask up front if she'd like to go out and get some coffee with you next Tuesday. It HAS to be next Tuesday. No other day is acceptable.

Here are your three possible outcomes:

1. If she is interested she will say yes.

2. If she is interested she will say she is busy on Tuesday but then suggest Friday night.

3. If she is not interested she will say she is too busy or is doing something that day. "I'm busy" is girl-speak for "I am not interested in you and will likely not ever be interested in you." The reason is because if a girl is interested in you she will specifically make time for you. Especially on Friday. Girls like Fridays.

Happens to the best of us. Even me! And I'm definitely the best of us (that's a joke). This totally cute and totally intelligent (like studying religion and philosophy and stuff at some super-smart university) girl totally left me hanging to dry a few weeks back. I asked her if she wanted to get coffee or lunch next Tuesday and she turned me down. She said she was super-busy and stuff. But see it's all cool. No big deal. At the end of the day it's whatever!



Your alternative solution is to send her text and voicemail messages every day and stuff. That or write a love-poem on a napkin and save it. Write about her eyes. Girls like eyes. Especially their own. Girls also like napkins so you're gonna hit a double-whammy. Next time you see her pretend like you just wrote it down and give it to her. But this will only work if you're in a place with a lot of napkins like a coffee shop or the table with the coffee maker at church. This plan is foolproof and never fails.

[Yuki-Anne]

I wanted to quote so many people and say THIS. Here's a breakdown of what I think:

1. It's okay to be introverted. Some girls like that. Speaking from personal experience, if a girl likes a shy guy she will find ways to be around him and get him to talk.

2. Be respectable. Most girls, even if they sometimes make the occasional perverted joke in the company of friends, have little respect for guys who make perverted jokes, especially if they do so ineptly. Don't make the jokes. In fact, it's better to make no jokes at all than to make them badly. Show appreciation for the humor of others, and don't be so concerned about showing your own sense of humor. If you have none, you'll have nothing to show, and that's embarrassing for everybody.

3. Stop focusing on what you're NOT good at. I have never once heard you talk about what you ARE good at. What are your strengths? What your qualities? Who are you? All I've been able to gather from your threads are that you are lonely, shy, and uncomfortably obsessed with getting girls to like you. But there's more to you than that, and I want to encourage you to see it. What are you good at? Find out, and get better at it. What are you interested in, aside from girls and marrying one of them? Become an expert in that. Heck, if all you can think about is girls, study psychology and find out everything you can about how women think and what they want and what they like. Read books about women. You'll be surprised at the insight you can find.

4. What is your mission, soldier? Find out what you want and who you are apart from the relationship you so desperately hope for. Find out what you want to work for and fight for. Think about every action hero ever. Do they meander about fighting whoever for the heck of it? Do they wander around desperately trying to find a group of people who might possibly include them? No, a hero has a mission; he knows what he's fighting for. Find what your mission is. You know what's really attractive in a person (not even talking about sex, but rather about magnetic personalities)? Passion. Determination. So find out what you can be passionate about, and be as good at that as you can be.

5. Stop worrying about side-hugs, bro. A side-hug is better than, "Ugh, don't touch me," but it's also not a secret, "LOVE ME PLEASE." A side-hug is a form of hug and nothing more or less than that.

[K. Ayato]

Some people give out hugs upon greeting or saying good-bye, and some don't. DEAL WITH IT!

[dothackzero]

1. It's okay to be introverted. Some girls like that. Speaking from personal experience, if a girl likes a shy guy she will find ways to be around him and get him to talk.

Yeah, how will a girl figure out that she likes an introvert if he's never really saying anything?

3. Stop focusing on what you're NOT good at. I have never once heard you talk about what you ARE good at. What are your strengths? What your qualities? Who are you? All I've been able to gather from your threads are that you are lonely, shy, and uncomfortably obsessed with getting girls to like you. But there's more to you than that, and I want to encourage you to see it. What are you good at? Find out, and get better at it. What are you interested in, aside from girls and marrying one of them? Become an expert in that. Heck, if all you can think about is girls, study psychology and find out everything you can about how women think and what they want and what they like. Read books about women. You'll be surprised at the insight you can find.

Well, mostly I'm just good with programming. Though I think probably could also get good in art(3D modeling/texturing) if I took the extra time to practice. Well this is assuming you're talking about real skills, and not personiality stuff and stuff that fairly common like being at video games.

4. What is your mission, soldier?

Put simple since I don't want to reveil all of it yet(I haven't reveiled all of it to my closest friends yet.)

Basically, I want to start my own video game company. Where I'll be doing more xenogear/xenosaga/xenoblade level stories only more directed from a Christian persepective than a guy who grow up from a buddhist family(at least I think he's family was buddhist) looking into christianity. So yeah basically showing Jesus(In more less a parable form) in video games. Or atleast that's the most basic way to explain it.

5. Stop worrying about side-hugs, bro. A side-hug is better than, "Ugh, don't touch me," but it's also not a secret, "LOVE ME PLEASE." A side-hug is a form of hug and nothing more or less than that.

Actually, it wasw mostly because it felt it was an awkward I don't really want to do this hug, but I'll do it anyway.