Why must they torture us so?

[Psycho Molos]

Eww. I couldn't STAND Ai Yori Aoshi. I only watched 5 episodes or so and I dropped it because of how horrible of a show it was.

What was so bad about it? The fanservice? The ginormous bosoms? Tina the chest tester? Meh...I overlooked all that

[FllMtl Novelist]

The problem with romance in manga (and other media) is, it's usually used solely to create tension: "Ohmygoodness, does character X like Z?! I MUST KNOW." When it's made official that yes, X likes Z and Z likes X back, there goes that source of tension. Tension is what keeps you hooked in a story (with the exception of a few genres), and keeps you going with it until the end. Add more tension, and readers are even more excited about what's to come in the story. Relieve too much tension, and the story becomes less drawing, and you lose readers. So relieving romantic tension before a story's climax is a sacrifice a lot of writers aren't willing to make--which is a shame, because romantic tension has now become overused and people are sick of it. Unless the writer's notorious for pulling fast ones, it's obvious practically from the beginning that character X likes or will like Z, and someday, volumes from now, the writer will get around to making Z like X, too. It's no longer that exciting tension so many writers want for their readers, it's a drag.

That's why crushes and love interests often don't get resolved until the end of the story, and why writers seriously need to find a new source of tension, guys.

Oh come on. The romance is what makes it fun! I love trying to figure out what ship works best and besides, love is a slow process. You can't rush it, so they don't either. (Well you can, but from what I've seen, rushing love never ends well)

There's a difference between "like-liking" a person and being totally 'in love' with him or her. Writers rarely show anything beyond the "like-like" stage (which can really come and go with the wind), and dawdle forever with that, and I think that's the problem some people have with it.

Romance series better have some kind of romantic resolution in the end, otherwise it is a fail.

Yes. You'd think this would be obvious.

But as for the ship teasing that goes on in ongoing series like Naruto,

Because it is not the purpose of this program to show the further development of my relationship [...] I will refrain from showing much. I wouldn't want to throw my dear viewers' time down the gutter, now would I? Nothing else is as boring to tell as a story of successful love.
— Narrator, The Tatami Galaxy

As much as I adore The Tatami Galaxy and especially its ending, I really do dislike the mentality of herpderp relationships are boring.

This, so much. I second everything else in your post, as well.


Unrelated:

This is true. I'm going to admit I was rooting for Zutara and I still like it, but I do also like Kataang and Maiko. Though I definitly like Maiko more then Kaatang. I don't know why, but I just always thought Katara and Aang made better friends. xD I was also kind of rooting for Aang/Toph.

I'm not a fan of Kaatang, either. They're both too nice. They kind of got along too well for my taste. XD

[Juliannesan]

What was so bad about it? The fanservice? The ginormous bosoms? Tina the chest tester? Meh...I overlooked all that

Yeah! And all the horrible jokes! I don't see how anyone can overlook that. It was just a totally dumb show. Anyway, there's my two cents.

There are way better romantic comedy shows than that one.

[TopazRaven]

Yeah! And all the horrible jokes! I don't see how anyone can overlook that. It was just a totally dumb show. Anyway, there's my two cents.

There are way better romantic comedy shows than that one.

I've never seen this anime myself, but I feel the need to point out that just because you didn't like it and found it stupid and unbearable doesn't mean other people did. For example I don't like FLCL. I thought it was probably the dumbest show I've ever seen, but I know of people who loved it. It might not be your favorite anime, but that doesn't mean it's impossible or wrong for someone else to have enjoyed it.

[Wolf-man]

I agree with Jordan. I find it really annoying when romance has no resolution or if it is ambiguous resolution. Like "Oh I guess I might like this guy/girl...but I'm not going to tell bye!!!" Even if I don't like the resolution I would rather it not be ambiguous.

I understand the tension would be gone but that is why you put the resolution at the end or wait for the right moment. Plenty of people like to see what happens after characters get together so I don't think it is always bad to have characters get together mid show/manga.

[Juliannesan]

I've never seen this anime myself, but I feel the need to point out that just because you didn't like it and found it stupid and unbearable doesn't mean other people did. For example I don't like FLCL. I thought it was probably the dumbest show I've ever seen, but I know of people who loved it. It might not be your favorite anime, but that doesn't mean it's impossible or wrong for someone else to have enjoyed it.

I'm not saying it's impossible for others to enjoy it, but I would question how someone COULD enjoy it with all the obvious nonsense that's plastered inside every single episode.

Same with Rumbling Hearts.

[AnimeGirl]

Oh yes, the hinted but not totally official pairing. Really drives me nuts. It drives me almost as nuts as CLAMP not allowing Syaoran and Sakura to kiss DESPITE BEING CANON!! I can understand not in CCS (since they were like 11?) but in Tsubasa? Dude!

Let's see, hinted but not official pairings I so adore...
KarkinosxYuyty (Heroic Age)
OkabexMayuri (Steins;Gate. I see it more than with Kurisu. They're cuter together anyway)
KuroganexTomoyo (Tsubasa Chronicles. DESPITE what rabid fangirls may say)
RoyxRiza (Fullmetal Alchemist. It's SO OBVIOUSLY there)

I think there's more, but that's all I can think of.

As a mangaka myself, I try to avoid such tactics and make canons. I don't mind when a relationship starts out as a "hint" but at least finalize it at the end. AT LEAST!

[TopazRaven]

I'm not saying it's impossible for others to enjoy it, but I would question how someone COULD enjoy it with all the obvious nonsense that's plastered inside every single episode.

Same with Rumbling Hearts.

It's simple, because everyone has different taste. What you consider nonesense they might find amusing or entertaining. Or they can look past it to the things about the show that does have meaning.

[Maokun]

I believe it may be a cultural thing, looking back at the way most animes treat such fruitless relationships. I think the one that actually went all the way out to explain their outlook on youthful relationships is 5cm/s: Even if a budding romance between two youngsters seemed like the perfect start for a life-long relationship, reality tends to be different. You grow up, grow old, different circumstances happen to each of the persons involved and even strong feelings you harbored back then might fade or change and not acknowledging that might be worse for you.

That's why many of these unresolved romances are framed by radical shifts in a person's reality such as travelling to another world. Escaflowne, Magic Knight Rayearth, Inuyasha, etc., are good examples of this. Once the adventure is over and the protagonists have to return to their worlds it's also the time to say goodbye to the beautiful but ultimately impossible relationships they created there which will be just wonderful memories as they become "normal" adults in our earth.

As for Naruto, they pretty much spelled out the full situation in the latest episodes: [spoiler]Try as she may, Sakura cannot possibly stop loving Sasuke. There will never be something between her and Naruto even if Sasuke never comes back, which right now seems to be the case.[/spoiler]

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I believe it may be a cultural thing, looking back at the way most animes treat such fruitless relationships. I think the one that actually went all the way out to explain their outlook on youthful relationships is 5cm/s: Even if a budding romance between two youngsters seemed like the perfect start for a life-long relationship, reality tends to be different. You grow up, grow old, different circumstances happen to each of the persons involved and even strong feelings you harbored back then might fade or change and not acknowledging that might be worse for you.

That is pretty much the Shinkai approach to film-making and I would hardly consider Shinkai films very indicative of anime's approach to either romance or relationships. For starters, the fact that Takaki and Akari are in some sort of relationship to begin with would make it unorthodox.

That's why many of these unresolved romances are framed by radical shifts in a person's reality such as travelling to another world. Escaflowne, Magic Knight Rayearth, Inuyasha, etc., are good examples of this. Once the adventure is over and the protagonists have to return to their worlds it's also the time to say goodbye to the beautiful but ultimately impossible relationships they created there which will be just wonderful memories as they become "normal" adults in our earth.

That would probably be closer to a standard fantasy trope than any sort of indication of romance tropes, though I have not seen any of the anime listed.

As for Naruto, they pretty much spelled out the full situation in the latest episodes: [spoiler]Try as she may, Sakura cannot possibly stop loving Sasuke. There will never be something between her and Naruto even if Sasuke never comes back, which right now seems to be the case.[/spoiler]

The notion that Sakura ever "loved" Sasuke causes me to boil with rage and is one of the dumbest things anything could write. I have mentioned this before but I cannot believe anything so dumb could be written.

I hardly believe this is a cultural thing; I'm pretty sure it's just lazy/bad writing.

[Maokun]

That is pretty much the Shinkai approach to film-making and I would hardly consider Shinkai films very indicative of anime's approach to either romance or relationships. For starters, the fact that Takaki and Akari are in some sort of relationship to begin with would make it unorthodox.

However, as many others have noted in this thread, and the reason it exists at all, this is something that appears repeatedly in anime. While I don't think that Shinkai's account for every japanese's point of view I believe it can be a plausible explanation for the phenomenon.

That would probably be closer to a standard fantasy trope than any sort of indication of romance tropes, though I have not seen any of the anime listed.

In fact, the standard trope for these kind of stories in western storytelling is the opposite: Love transcends differences of race, distance and space-time location. For love, you abandon your world and become a citizen of the new world (or more often, you "rescue" your beloved from that world which is obviously inferior to yours and come back home with him/her in arms.)

The notion that Sakura ever "loved" Sasuke causes me to boil with rage and is one of the dumbest things anything could write. I have mentioned this before but I cannot believe anything so dumb could be written.

Not trying to get into another huge Naruto argument here, but while I do agree that Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are unsatisfactorily developed from a storytelling point of view, I have to say that people actually fall in love like that in real life or even more irrationally -especially at the ages of these characters.

[Mouse2010]

That's why many of these unresolved romances are framed by radical shifts in a person's reality such as travelling to another world. Escaflowne,

I'm not familiar with the other series you listed above, but I wanted to say, for the record, that Escaflowne is NOT an example of unresolved romance. It was resolved]Monster[/I] example I gave awhile back. I did kind of want the characters in question to end up together, but the inconclusive ending bothered me more than it would have if they'd clearly just been platonic friends.

[FllMtl Novelist]

I believe it may be a cultural thing, looking back at the way most animes treat such fruitless relationships. I think the one that actually went all the way out to explain their outlook on youthful relationships is 5cm/s: Even if a budding romance between two youngsters seemed like the perfect start for a life-long relationship, reality tends to be different. You grow up, grow old, different circumstances happen to each of the persons involved and even strong feelings you harbored back then might fade or change and not acknowledging that might be worse for you.

I haven't seen 5 cm/s (pity me ]That's why many of these unresolved romances are framed by radical shifts in a person's reality such as travelling to another world. Escaflowne, Magic Knight Rayearth, Inuyasha, etc., are good examples of this. Once the adventure is over and the protagonists have to return to their worlds it's also the time to say goodbye to the beautiful but ultimately impossible relationships they created there which will be just wonderful memories as they become "normal" adults in our earth.[/QUOTE]
I haven't completed any of those anime, but I read all the manga for Magic Knight Rayearth (including the second trilogy), and while there was one sudden half-romance tacked on lamely at the end, I didn't think the others were unjustly ignored. There wasn't any tension there, it was just background. Also, the heroines weren't totally cut off from the other world; they were able to travel back and forth fairly easily.

As for Naruto, they pretty much spelled out the full situation in the latest episodes: [spoiler]Try as she may, Sakura cannot possibly stop loving Sasuke. There will never be something between her and Naruto even if Sasuke never comes back, which right now seems to be the case.[/spoiler]

Naruto--to my knowledge--isn't complete yet, so I don't think it's a good source of unresolved romances.

I hardly believe this is a cultural thing]
I agree. Unless presenting a subplot and then never finishing it is totally acceptable in Japan for some reason.

In fact, the standard trope for these kind of stories in western storytelling is the opposite: Love transcends differences of race, distance and space-time location. For love, you abandon your world and become a citizen of the new world (or more often, you "rescue" your beloved from that world which is obviously inferior to yours and come back home with him/her in arms.)

I can't remember any examples off the top of my head, but I think you're right. It's kind of unrealistic.

[Maokun]

I'm not familiar with the other series you listed above, but I wanted to say, for the record, that Escaflowne is NOT an example of unresolved romance. It was resolved]Monster[/I] example I gave awhile back. I did kind of want the characters in question to end up together, but the inconclusive ending bothered me more than it would have if they'd clearly just been platonic friends.

Ah, I see, I misunderstood what you were trying to say and my whole post is rendered moot. However, I'd have to say that what you mean is a far less common occurrence than the one I meant.

[quote="Fll Mtal Novelist"]I haven't completed any of those anime, but I read all the manga for Magic Knight Rayearth (including the second trilogy), and while there was one sudden half-romance tacked on lamely at the end, I didn't think the others were unjustly ignored. There wasn't any tension there, it was just background. Also, the heroines weren't totally cut off from the other world]

Oh? I didn't read the manga but the anime [spoiler]ends rather curtly after the heroines return to the earth and nothing more than a wistful longing to see their romantic interests again is expressed.[/spoiler]

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

Yeah, I guess everyone else already said it for me but the difference between 5 Centimeters per Second and the thing I have the problem with is that there is a clear relationship in the former, while I am specifically annoyed with the fact that most anime and manga refuse to write actual romantic relationships, saving them for getting paired off at the end.

Also, it's not the idea that Sakura has a childish crush on Sasuke that bothers me (though even that is infuriating. I know hormones and all but when someone tries to kill you I think any rational being would draw the line), it's actually calling it love that really annoys me. I get tired of it getting called love because it is not love, just like how there is no such thing as love at first sight(though Kemonozume gets away with it because it's special).

Also:

Not trying to get into another huge Naruto argument here

I lol'd.

[Juliannesan]

Oh yes, the hinted but not totally official pairing. Really drives me nuts. It drives me almost as nuts as CLAMP not allowing Syaoran and Sakura to kiss DESPITE BEING CANON!! I can understand not in CCS (since they were like 11?) but in Tsubasa? Dude!

Let's see, hinted but not official pairings I so adore...
KarkinosxYuyty (Heroic Age)
OkabexMayuri (Steins]KuroganexTomoyo[/B] (Tsubasa Chronicles. DESPITE what rabid fangirls may say)
RoyxRiza (Fullmetal Alchemist. It's SO OBVIOUSLY there)

I think there's more, but that's all I can think of.

As a mangaka myself, I try to avoid such tactics and make canons. I don't mind when a relationship starts out as a "hint" but at least finalize it at the end. AT LEAST!

I knooow! So sad.

[Maokun]

Again, see the Monster example I gave awhile back. I did kind of want the characters in question to end up together, but the inconclusive ending bothered me more than it would have if they'd clearly just been platonic friends.

Thinking back about this, I couldn't help to wonder if, at the very least for this specific case, you are the one doing the "torture" yourself. I see no real base in the whole story to expect a romance between those two. When Nina said that she was waiting at the end I remember being surprised, but then I reasoned that it was kind of natural for her to be infatuated with him at least a bit, but I definitely don't think it would ever be more than one sided: Remember that Tenma met her when she was a little kid, and I doubt that his feelings for her ever changed to other than pseudo-filial.

Yeah, I guess everyone else already said it for me but the difference between 5 Centimeters per Second and the thing I have the problem with is that there is a clear relationship in the former, while I am specifically annoyed with the fact that most anime and manga refuse to write actual romantic relationships, saving them for getting paired off at the end.

Yeah I guess you are right on that. Only exceptionally few non-romance anime do that. -I guess that's one of the reasons why Bakemonogatari is so especial- Though to be fair to anime, Western animation is even worse at that, especially given the episodic nature of most of them. How many western animation series teased us with possible relationships, only to get cancelled after certain time with no resolution whatsoever!

Romance oriented anime obviously deals with the issue in question much better, anyway.

Also, it's not the idea that Sakura has a childish crush on Sasuke that bothers me (though even that is infuriating. I know hormones and all but when someone tries to kill you I think any rational being would draw the line), it's actually calling it love that really annoys me. I get tired of it getting called love because it is not love, just like how there is no such thing as love at first sight(though Kemonozume gets away with it because it's special).

Also:I lol'd.

Well, actually that's the kind of thing I had in my mind when I posted that: I've seen with my own eyes very unhealthy infatuations (I'm with you in not wanting to call them "love",) which will stand even physical and/or verbal abuse and look for justifications for it. I'm not even sure that the series shows Sakura's feelings for Sasuke under a positive light. Only until recently, when she was made to see how much they were affecting Naruto and others, she was forced to realize how irrational they are, but still how little she could do to change them (and she tried.) The only, sad, way out she could think out of her dilemma was to kill Sasuke herself or more likely, die trying.

O lookit that... we couldn't help it

KuroganexTomoyo (Tsubasa Chronicles. DESPITE what rabid fangirls may say)

Wait, what? I always saw his feelings for her as simple and pure devotion, as such one would felt for an earthly goddess that granted one compassion and mercy. Also, while I know Tomoyo is ageless, still looks wrong. I prefer much more to dwell in the back and forth moirailallegiance-kismesissitude double reach around between him and Fai. (Seriously, troll romance can be used to explain a lot of things!)

[FllMtl Novelist]

I'm not familiar with the other series you listed above, but I wanted to say, for the record, that Escaflowne is NOT an example of unresolved romance. It was resolved]
Somehow I missed reading this, but Mouse said part of what I meant to, better than I did. XD;

Oh? I didn't read the manga but the anime [spoiler]ends rather curtly after the heroines return to the earth and nothing more than a wistful longing to see their romantic interests again is expressed.[/spoiler]

Wow, that's odd. o.O And a pretty lame ending.

[Mouse2010]

Thinking back about this, I couldn't help to wonder if, at the very least for this specific case, you are the one doing the "torture" yourself.

Trust me, I'm not the only one torturing myself on that. I don't remember now where I saw a discussion on this, but I did once stumble on a heated discussion about the relationship, with some people fervently arguing that it was a platonic friendship all the way and others suggesting that there was a lot of UST hinted between them. I don't see any reason to go into all the reasons for or against that idea] Remember that Tenma met her when she was a little kid, and I doubt that his feelings for her ever changed to other than pseudo-filial.[/quote]

Er, but remember that this is anime we're talking about. Such relationships shifts do sometimes occur in anime. (Actually, they occur in various forms of media in Anglo-American culture, but they're rare. See Diana Wynne Jones' Fire and Hemlock for an example.)

[Maokun]

Wow, that's odd. o.O And a pretty lame ending.

I think it owns to a problem several anime have that is part of its very structure: for the last episode, a meager 22 minutes, they leave climax, aftermath and epilogue. Which is to say, the climax often eats the whole episode, we get a minute of silent aftermath as the credits roll in, and the epilogue is non existent.

[Roxi]

I'll give you one answer: so that fans can do that for them in the creation of fanfics. XD

[color="DeepSkyBlue"]
AGREED!! LOL[/color]

[goldenspines]

[quote="Hatty hat hat"] I hardly believe this is a cultural thing] I'm not going to defend Naruto because I honestly don't care about the series, but in regards to Japanese culture, expressing relationships openly (such as hold hands, kissing, or any kind of physical contact of affection) is very looked down upon in public (i.e. in front of other people). Therefore, couples not "getting official" in anime/manga could be an excuse of bad writing (or trickery writing, whichever you prefer), but in other cases, it's very cultural.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

That last sentence was not actually referring to Naruto; it was more of a general reply to Maokun.

I don't think couples need to have PDA's to have a better written relationship. I mean, one of the best relationships I've seen in anime is Bakemonogatari, and they might have held hands once? I think? My issue is not that lack of affectionate acts towards one another, it's that they don't have any sort of real romantic development until the end. Most relationships are written as a lot of potential romance, with some sort of getting-together at the end; a lot of X liking Y, and at the end X and Y hook up.

[A_Yellow_Dress]

Recalling the season end to Digimon Adventure 02....

Sometimes canon relationships can anger the fanbase more than non-existent relationships or teasers. With teasers we can assume that the perfect pair end up together. With canon relationships (of those we didn't expect...), no so much.

[Nekomimi]

Wow, this is both fun & enlightening, which is rare XD I do love fandom so, even the shipping part of it. When I first discovered fandom, I thought "shipping" was a euphemism for something else ;D I think it's interesting how some have used terms like "shipping", "canon" & "romance" interchangeably, while others have defined aspects of relationship (friends vs. familial vs. romantic). I'm unfamiliar w/ some of the pairings mentioned, but they sound cute by the descriptions. Then again, I'm awfully fond of crack pairings rather than canon, no matter what the anime/manga ;D

I think I'd make more sense if I were more awake, but then I'd be at work DDD

[Wolf-man]

Recalling the season end to Digimon Adventure 02....

Sometimes canon relationships can anger the fanbase more than non-existent relationships or teasers. With teasers we can assume that the perfect pair end up together. With canon relationships (of those we didn't expect...), no so much.

Yamato and Sora are the best Digimon couple...that's all I gotta say about that. Its also the only official Digimon romance...still holding out hopes for Xros Wars but I know that it is going to go nowhere.

[Smileloviene]

*Frantically avoiding Naruto spoilers cause I want to know SOO bad but I don't want to SPOIL IT!!!!* LOL

Anyway, as for the original rant - I'm pretty much with you. Unresolved romances can get really irritating when they drag SOOO LONG - but i can also appreciate them if they keep it interesting and resolve it eventually.

Also: if you want a good romance AND action manga (cause honestly... they're all mostly one or the other or just don't resolve) i would read Dengeki Daisy. It's not done yet, but so far it is DEFINITELY the best at being an adorable romance but intriguing story. So, if you want something to read and haven't read it - I highly recommend it

What I don't like is when a series ends in an ambiguous way, where you can't tell for sure if two characters are going to be together romantically. This is especially annoying to me if their relationship was an important element in the series]

My thoughts exactly. End of Story.

What really kills me is the IchixRuki couple in Bleach. It shows a potential romance and in the show they should totally get married and have a Shinigami family but noooooo .

YES! AGGG! I watched so much a bleach and wanted just that. Why doesn't it just happen! I kinda stopped watching after the most recent episodes though... how far are you?

In contrast, take something like Monster for example.

[spoiler] I finished that anime and thought there was going to be something romantic going on between Nina and Tenma--maybe not until after Nina finished law school, but still, I thought I saw evidence that they were pairing off. But I know there are other fans who will swear up and down (maybe loudly) that there was NEVER anything romantic between the two of them]

That's the kind of ending that frustrates me. It'd be okay if the relationship were purely a friendly one instead of a potentially romantic one. I just want to know that, instead of forever wondering about it.

Heehee... that is one of my ABSOLUTE favorites
[spoiler]Yeah, it would have been nice to see a more clear resolution... but I found it cute enough as it was (they'd gone through so much already with all the johan stuff that it kinda felt like they didn't really have the mindset to focus of a serious relationship JUST yet ) I basically just took it as a -they ended up together- and was happy But I also decided that Johan went off and made something better for his life with his GENIUS mind because he finally heard his real name and was changed by Tenma's resolve - so maybe I'm just to optimistic overall? haha [/spoiler]

[raider~joseph]

Actually in the Battle Network games...

[SPOILER]Lan gets married to Maylu at the very end[/SPOILER]

.

I was unable to see the end of that...THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

[font="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="4"][color="RoyalBlue"]One word: SALES. Angst-filled, conflicting, "Will-they-or-won't-they" romances sell better][/SIZE][/font]

THATS THE REASON MANY PEOPLE KEEP WATCHING POKEMON!Misty even admited the feelings she had.She also hinted it.(Ok so Misty's song may or may not be canon.WHAT THE HECK EVER!)I hate you gamefreak...so much.SO MUCH.(That being said I will be in line for pokemon gray in my mewtwo hoodie I had custom made.)They do it with other couples too.Again...the hate keeps going and going.They even make up characters that don't exist in the games to create pairings and all around torture the masses.You wanna see a ship war?Try the Ashxxx(insert female character's name here) wars.I WAS THERE.Misty won due to the most evidence on her behalf but I am gonna sell tickets to beat up the writers if they end the series and they don't get together.(There will be a fee for weapons and I will have a rental service as well.)