The Christian Self-Esteem Movement.

[aliveinHim]

I need to sort out the mess of thoughts that are in my brain. Well, Psalm 139 happens to be one of my favorite passages. It's saying that God knows us inside and out and we can take comfort in that He loves us more than we love ourselves. Excatly, I know that God didn't make people an accident. He created them special and unique. I'm not looking down on unnattractive people (which saying unnattractive is very subjective because we all have different opinions). By most people's standards, I really don't know where I fall. Most people who told me I was beautiful were my parents friends but I would think that they would say that just to make them happy. http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/166323_127135897348786_100001571293148_181373_18858_n.jpg. I didn't want to grow my bangs out when I was 12 for the fear that everyone would know how big my forehead was. When I was 14, I was begging my parents for cosmetic surgery to make my nose smaller. Mommy was the one who told me to stop obsessing. She told me to some people, I'm stunning, to others, I'm probably atrocious. Oh well, that's life.

My older brother is one of the most shallow people I know of. I show him pics of the girls who get told how beautiful they are and he starts laughing and says, "ick." It's kind of annoying though because I know that he likes to lead girls on sometimes because all the girls flock after him. According to just about everyone (except for me and my sisters), my brother is super hot. He's 6'3, tanned, ripped, and has a big smile. He always asks me who would be a good girlfriend for him and I name names and cringes. He says he's not being mean but wants a top notch girl. I tell him that I couples all the time when the guy is super handsome but the girl is average or vice versa. I tell him that looks don't matter and if he doesn't stop priding himself on his looks, God can take his looks away. If he got in a big car accident, he could look completely different after (not that I'm wishing that on my brother because I love my brother dearly).

My mommy is not a sweetie pie but she's one of the best people ever. Yeah, she does tell me if so and so's ugly but she's not saying it a mean way but in a matter of fact way. She tells me that one day, we're all going to look old and ugly. Beauty is something that won't last forever. Instead of focusing on the outer beauty, focus on what's inside. One of the lifeguards at my pool has an extremely pretty face but she walks around with a scowl all the time and she appears ugly because of it. She yells and is cranky all the time. Though she has the outer beauty, she doesn't have the inner beauty. Girls not having a beautiful inside can be a big turn off.

If you really think about it, what's better? Telling everyone they're beautiful nor not saying anything? If everyone is beautiful, no one is beautiful. Either way, it doesn't matter. God still loves us. He made us special and unique. He's given us all gifts and talents and He wants us to use them for His glory. God doesn't want us to sit around and worry what we look like instead of working to His glory. God knows that He didn't make a mistake when He made you or me. We should not just say that we want to hang out with the attractive people. That's just mean.

I in now way shape or form intended to come across as mean. I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. If I hurt one of you guy's feelings, send me a message and we'll make it up. I want to still be friends with everyone here .

[Atria35]

The thing is, because everyone has different standard of beauty and what they consider beautiful, then everyone is beautiful. Just not to the same people. And even old people can be beautiful, too.

You need to differentiate what you find physically attractive with what others find physically attractive, because thinking that people are lying when they say someone is pretty when you don't think they are is arrogant and probably wrong.

But I do think that everyone... okay, most people....can be beautiful in some way. That's something that's grappled with a lot, I think- how can everyone be beautiful? How can everyone be special? That's something that you need to work out for yourself.

BTW- I think you're a very pretty girl. Yes, you do fall into the standards of what I consider pretty. The standards of pretty where I am mean you'd be very popular. Now, would people come up to you and say you're pretty? Probably not. That's a strange thing to do unless you're some kind of pervert.

[Htom Sirveaux]

We should not just say that we want to hang out with the attractive people. That's just mean.

But I don't hear anybody saying that.

I'm not trying to sound accusatory or anything, but you seem to be focused (in one way or another) on physical beauty more than anyone else posting in this thread. I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't really need saying.
If this is all coming from your personal experiences then I'm sorry to hear that the people around you are so shallow, and they do need to be set straight. But we're not those people.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

AliveInHim, I'm still confused. The only thing wrong with your photo is that it's blurry. You're not ugly, far from it.

[Nate]

I'm not looking down on unnattractive people

By calling them unattractive you're already looking down on them, whether you believe that or not.

Yeah, she does tell me if so and so's ugly but she's not saying it a mean way but in a matter of fact way.

Saying it in a matter of fact way is being mean. If she's that detached from emotions that she can't tell an insult from a fact then she's kind of a jerk. And the biggest problem isn't your mother calling someone ugly (though that is definitely extremely rude) but your mother saying that when somebody calls someone that she finds ugly "beautiful," that that person is lying. That indicates arrogance and an ego of massive proportions.

Not to mention "matter of fact" means something objectively factual. Didn't you say beauty is subjective? If it is, then it can't be "matter of fact" that someone is ugly because "That person is ugly" is not a fact, it's an opinion! So yes, your mother is being rude and mean, not "matter of fact" because there's no fact to state. She's just stating her subjective opinion as if it were fact, which is prideful.

Pride goes before a fall. Sounds like your mom needs some inner beauty more than anyone else.

She tells me that one day, we're all going to look old and ugly.

See, there's that arrogance again. Just because she personally doesn't find old people beautiful or attractive doesn't make them ugly. There are people who are attracted to older folks. They find old people to be extremely beautiful and attractive. Kind of goes with the whole "Beauty is subjective" thing.

If everyone is beautiful, no one is beautiful.

What? Sorry, this is going to sound rude, but there's no other way to put it. That is hands down one of the stupidest things I have heard in this thread. Let me put it another way.

"If God loves everyone, God loves no one."

See how ridiculous that sounds? See how utterly void of logic that statement is? That's exactly the kind of thing you're saying. EVERYONE IS BEAUTIFUL IN THEIR OWN WAY. Everyone isn't beautiful in the same way, but yes, everyone is beautiful SOMEHOW.

He made us special and unique.

But if everyone is special then no one is special! Hey, I'm just using the same logic you just used earlier!

[Maledicte]

If everyone is beautiful, no one is beautiful.

This statement makes no sense. I mean, have you applied that logic to say, flowers? Just because not every flower is a rose (or a lily or a daffodil or whatever flower you fancy) or because every flower is not all blue or all yellow, that one is less beautiful than the other?

Honestly, that is a horrid, horrid way to think about people. THERE IS NO LIMIT TO BEAUTY. What, you think God creates people with a certain amount of beauty and runs out of it when he gets to the end of the line, and tells everyone else, "Whoops, sorry, I forgot about you, you'll just have to get by without it?" God is the author of goodness, grace, and love, all BEAUTIFUL things, and if HE is eternal and if HIS LOVE is infinite, then beauty is too.

EDIT: For the record, I want to let you know that I think you're a very pretty girl. I find prominent (AKA large) noses quite attractive, you have a cute smile and gorgeous hair. And no, I'm not lying at all, but you'll just have to take my word for it.

Also, your brother sounds like a tool.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

What? Sorry, this is going to sound rude, but there's no other way to put it. That is hands down one of the stupidest things I have heard in this thread. Let me put it another way.

"If God loves everyone, God loves no one."

See how ridiculous that sounds? See how utterly void of logic that statement is? That's exactly the kind of thing you're saying. EVERYONE IS BEAUTIFUL IN THEIR OWN WAY. Everyone isn't beautiful in the same way, but yes, everyone is beautiful SOMEHOW.

So you're saying HITLER was beautiful?! Nate, I am disappointed.


(I'm also being sarcastic)

[Makachop^^128]

The thing is, because everyone has different standard of beauty and what they consider beautiful, then everyone is beautiful. Just not to the same people. And even old people can be beautiful, too.

This is kinda strange but old people are really beautiful to me. Most likely the most beautiful person I saw was a old lady, she had crazy long gray hair and blue eyes. They also have the nicest smiles I love going to resting homes and talking to them cause they are such beautiful people inside and out.

If you really think about it, what's better? Telling everyone they're beautiful nor not saying anything? If everyone is beautiful, no one is beautiful. Either way, it doesn't matter. God still loves us.

Everyone is Beautiful, just in different ways. One day I was with my friends and they were putting down how ugly this girls was, she was kinda socially awkward and all, She was the kind of girl most would say isn't pretty at all. That day though I saw her at lunch, I noticed she had beautiful eyes and a boy came up to her and she had the most awesome smile. So I really don't see how we could say we are not all beautiful. We have different traits that make us beautiful, that some people might find ugly and other might find pretty.

This statement makes no sense. I mean, have you applied that logic to say, flowers? Just because not every flower is a rose (or a lily or a daffodil or whatever flower you fancy) or because every flower is not all blue or all yellow, that one is less beautiful than the other?

I was gonna use that example XD, I agree with you fully

[Maledicte]

So you're saying HITLER was beautiful?!

Well, he was a painter.

http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/hitlerpaintings.htm

Not half-bad, if I may say so.

[K. Ayato]

Girl, something's not right with this picture. You keep referring to yourself in this thread as ugly and unattractive. I'll just say that's your opinion for now, but where does that justify your actions in calling everyone else around you ugly? Is it that you hate yourself so much that in saying so-and-so is ugly makes you feel and look better by comparison? Like Nate said, that's pretty heartless and downright rude.

[Okami]

I'm lost as to the purpose of this thread now.

[shooraijin]

So am I. Do we have anything new to add?

[Ante Bellum]

She tells me that one day, we're all going to look old and ugly.

I don't know about you, but I think Will Shatner looks pretty good for being almost 80. I've seen people much, much younger than that and they looked older.

Well, he was a painter.

http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/hitlerpaintings.htm

Not half-bad, if I may say so.

I personally wouldn't say outstanding, but they're really not half bad.

[Kunoichi]

Well I'll go to original topic.

I never knew about either of these organizations.

I can say as being suicidal, trying to kill myself several times...each time being physically saved by a person, and also a former cutter...whether the organization is "Christian" or not, to me if its still accomplishing something good for this, then I'm all for it. I've been to several 12 step programs, and while they aren't "Christian" (unless you go to Celebrate Recovery), I've known several people to know God and Jesus as a result. As it was said, when I was suicidal, I even prayed to Satan that I would die "this" time. I'm not proud of that but I just couldn't handle the abuse I was enduring. Obviously God has other plans. And if an organization can give some hope then I'm for it. I don't get the love on the arm thing personally and i don't think it symbolizes much but that's just my thought.

On the second, I grew up with a model of a sister. Meaning sister was a model. As the younger sister, I was often looked over and even in fact was called ugly by my grandmother and sister because i was not "model material". Had a "sit down" where grandma would choose what I would need cosmetic surgery among other things to look "pretty". I was 10 or 11 at the time. I love my grandma and perhaps in her mind she was doing what she felt was best for me. Honestly, all it did was crush me.

It's my opinion that while others may not agree with me on this, if they are telling girls that they are you beautiful no matter what they do, how much make up they wear or they can just be who they are, I'm all for it. If they were telling them to be unhealthy (be anorexic, don't eat right, don't be healthy) then I'd be concerned. Personally I don't see a problem with it.

[Yuki-Anne]

Well I'll go to original topic.

I never knew about either of these organizations.

I can say as being suicidal, trying to kill myself several times...each time being physically saved by a person, and also a former cutter...whether the organization is "Christian" or not, to me if its still accomplishing something good for this, then I'm all for it. I've been to several 12 step programs, and while they aren't "Christian" (unless you go to Celebrate Recovery), I've known several people to know God and Jesus as a result. As it was said, when I was suicidal, I even prayed to Satan that I would die "this" time. I'm not proud of that but I just couldn't handle the abuse I was enduring. Obviously God has other plans. And if an organization can give some hope then I'm for it. I don't get the love on the arm thing personally and i don't think it symbolizes much but that's just my thought.

On the second, I grew up with a model of a sister. Meaning sister was a model. As the younger sister, I was often looked over and even in fact was called ugly by my grandmother and sister because i was not "model material". Had a "sit down" where grandma would choose what I would need cosmetic surgery among other things to look "pretty". I was 10 or 11 at the time. I love my grandma and perhaps in her mind she was doing what she felt was best for me. Honestly, all it did was crush me.

It's my opinion that while others may not agree with me on this, if they are telling girls that they are you beautiful no matter what they do, how much make up they wear or they can just be who they are, I'm all for it. If they were telling them to be unhealthy (be anorexic, don't eat right, don't be healthy) then I'd be concerned. Personally I don't see a problem with it.

Kunoichi, you have been an inspiration to me for a while now and I just want to say that God has done amazing things through and brought you through amazing trials. You are truly one of the more beautiful people I have ever encountered, and I'd be proud to be even half as beautiful as you.

[Kunoichi]

Kunoichi, you have been an inspiration to me for a while now and I just want to say that God has done amazing things through and brought you through amazing trials. You are truly one of the more beautiful people I have ever encountered, and I'd be proud to be even half as beautiful as you.

Yuki-Anne,

Thank you. I really appreciate you saying such kind words to me. I don't think I see myself the way you do or the way God does for that matter. If i can give hope to someone though than all the suffering is well worth it. Thank you again xxx And btw, I think you are beautiful hun. I'd say inside and out but i don't know what you look like heh. Not that it matters.

:hug::hug::hug:

Kuno

[aliveinHim]

I finally figured out how to condense everything (yay me)! God never makes junk nor mistakes. The reason why there are mistakes is because of the fall of man. People will never be perfect on earth. God created everyone special and unique. He blessed everyone with gifts and talents of some sort. He cares about your service to Him rather than sitting around worrying about whether you are pretty. God knows that you are no mistake. You could be the most beautiful model on the face of the planet but have rotten character. You can be the most wretched of creatures but be the most caring, loving, serving person ever and that's beautiful in God's eyes. The inner beauty is the most important to us because it affects our outside. I for years felt like I was worthless until I became a Christian when I was 14. I still had those worthless feelings lingering until I realized what will truly make me beautiful is if I continue to love and serve God. Ephesians 2:10 sticks out to me because it says that I was created to do the good works which God has provided for me. I don't have to sit around and worry whether I am pretty because I'm going to be too busy doing God's work than worry.

I am not condeming anyone. All you girls on this forum are so sweet and nice and beautiful. You all love God and that's what keeps you pretty and it will last till you're really old. I do like telling people they're pretty but outer beauty shouldn't be the majority of our worries. I hate it when really pretty girls who tell me how ugly they are. We need to remind people how beautiful they are on the inside. Inside reflects the outside.

I love you all and how you put up with such an annoying person like me. Huggles to you all <3.

PS, Kuno, I used to be a cutter too.

[Furen]

TWLOHA stands for To Write Love On Her Arms,
It's also not a Christian event.

I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet, but it is a Christian event, or organization anyway.

[Lynna]

@ Aliveinhim you're very sweet, and I can see you're trying hard to explain yourself, but the thing is, you're also contradicting yourself. You say God doesn't make junk, but you also say it's possible to be a wretched creature on the outside.
I also agree that inner beauty is more important then outer beauty, but when it comes to God's sight, no one is outwardly ugly, and that's what people are trying too say.

[aliveinHim]

It's our sin that ultimately makes us ugly. I have a disorganized brain.

[Furen]

It's our sin that ultimately makes us ugly. I have a disorganized brain.

But it's also not our place to judge, yes sure Sin is a vile thing, but we shouldn't be talking about others without first examining ourselves.

[goldenspines]

It's our sin that ultimately makes us ugly. I have a disorganized brain.

I'm posting to hopefully compliment Atria's post.
God does not judge us by our actions/sins and whether it makes us ugly or not. That was the point everyone was getting at, I believe. We should look at people through God's eyes, in which case, all people are beautiful. No one is "ugly" or "less pretty" than someone else on the outside or inside. So saying someone is pretty on the outside an/or inside is telling the truth because that's how God sees them.

[Lynna]

It's our sin that ultimately makes us ugly. I have a disorganized brain.

Yeah ^_^ well, so do I. I'm pretty sure I've unintentionally ruffled a few feathers on this site...but they obviously forgive me anyways ^_^

[Okami]

I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet, but it is a Christian event, or organization anyway.

Actually, To Write Love on Her Arms is not a Christian organization. (Refer to my first post in this thread). They say so directly in their FAQ. However, it does have Christian undertones (the Story plays heavily on Christian faith.) I've actually discussed with two of TWLOHA's staff members (Katie and Chloe) as to why they do not want themselves called a Christian organization and it is because they do not want the label of "Christian" to make people feel excluded (this is the same sort of deal as some "Christian Bands" not wanting to be considered Christian, because they don't want to seclude their secular audience. (Emery comes front to my mind here)) it is important to note, however, that the organization got its start with Craig Gross and Fireproof Ministries, which houses the organizations of XXXChurch, HeartSupport, and The Strip Church.

Pardon if this post is weird at all...typing from my Blackberry.

[Nami]

I just have to say this, I love reading Nate, Okami, Yuki, Lynna, and Goldy's posts (and everyone else whom I missed) its so encouraging! And truly, you people are some of the most beautiful people I've ever met/seen. Inside and out.

aliveinHim, I can't confess to know what you are trying to say, but you are beautiful, and I often find that girls who are attractive are the ones that down on themselves a lot. Why? I don't know, but I think its because secretly they know they are beautiful and they want to be praised for it. Which isn't bad, but obsessiveness over it is bad. Trust me, I'm 20, and not one day of my life have I ever found myself "beautiful" inside or out. Because, honestly, I'm pretty ugly on the inside. Thanks to God, I've been improving and my older sister encourages me to trust God and to see what He sees (like what everyone's been saying) and I've been doing much, much better and I'm COMPLETELY unwilling to call ANYONE I see ugly, even if I don't find them attractive, I know God does and someone somewhere will love them, besides, unless I know the person, how can I even begin to call them ugly?

I wonder, if you aren't reading all the posts, because it seems like you aren't (if you are, that's good.)

She tells me that one day, we're all going to look old and ugly.

Haha, I find this amusing, my grandmother is one of the most beautiful older woman I have ever seen, and my grandpa who is deceased was a handsome older man. Plus, I see tons of older-people I find beautiful and all around wonderful. ^_^ Most of them are so kind~

All the old people in my family are good-looking o_o ain't that funny? XD

Anyway, that's all ^_^

[Nate]

If I'm beautiful inside how come I have so much heartburn? D:

[Nami]

O_O stop eating things that give you heartburn (this is off topic! Mods will be annoyed Haha)

[shooraijin]

Mod annoyance imminent. *looms menacingly*

[K. Ayato]

Think we can close it down? I think it's been done to death in here and then some.

[Nami]

I agree with K-chan!